Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wasn't Mary married? Why would she be a virgin as a married woman? Or was she supposed to have been impregnated before she was married?

Why would anyone have believed her? If your daughter came to you & said, "Guess what mom, I'm pregnant and it is God's baby not my boyfriend's." Would you believe her?

Just go read the gospels, and then believe them or not as you see fit. This was already explained by a PP.

Not helpful. One poster said unmarried, one eluded to her being married, one said virgin may not mean virgin. I'm on my phone so searching for the gospels is not that easily done right know. Should not be surprised that a request for information is meet with resistance when it comes to religion.

I thought she was married. Wouldn't a married woman have had sex with her husband. Thought the bible encouraged sexual relations in a marriage. Didn't see an answer to the would you believe your daughter.

Mary was betrothed (engaged) to Joseph at the time of conception. Therefore not married, and by belief, a virgin. An angel appeared to Joseph and told him Mary would have the son of God.

Isn't it more likely that Joseph and Mary had some premarital sex. Joseph made up a story that he was visited by an angel to distract scorn, and Mary said she was a virgin? It seems so bizarre to me, to make up an entire religion based in no small part on what was almost certainly a lie by a young couple experimenting together.

If Jesus was just another person, then no religion would have been created. But he performed miracles.
If you don't believe that Jesus was the son of God and was an ordinary person, that's fine. I don't care what your religion is.
I believe Jesus is the son of God. I believe he came to deliver us from sin.
I believe Buddha was a wise man, and millions of people believe in him. But I don't discount their religion by referring to him as the big fat dude in a diaper. It's disrespectful. Please have the same respect for Christians.

So what are your thoughts on ol' Joe Smith or L. Ron Hubbard?

Not the person that you were talking to but...

Hubbard is demonstrably a fraud and a con man. Scientology is a dangerous cult. It's practices are appalling and should be illegal.

Smith might have been a con and he might have been a prophet. He died for his religion, though, and his church has gone on to be a mainstream religious force, with both the upside and the downside of that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wasn't Mary married? Why would she be a virgin as a married woman? Or was she supposed to have been impregnated before she was married?

Why would anyone have believed her? If your daughter came to you & said, "Guess what mom, I'm pregnant and it is God's baby not my boyfriend's." Would you believe her?

Just go read the gospels, and then believe them or not as you see fit. This was already explained by a PP.

Not helpful. One poster said unmarried, one eluded to her being married, one said virgin may not mean virgin. I'm on my phone so searching for the gospels is not that easily done right know. Should not be surprised that a request for information is meet with resistance when it comes to religion.

I thought she was married. Wouldn't a married woman have had sex with her husband. Thought the bible encouraged sexual relations in a marriage. Didn't see an answer to the would you believe your daughter.

Mary was betrothed (engaged) to Joseph at the time of conception. Therefore not married, and by belief, a virgin. An angel appeared to Joseph and told him Mary would have the son of God.

Isn't it more likely that Joseph and Mary had some premarital sex. Joseph made up a story that he was visited by an angel to distract scorn, and Mary said she was a virgin? It seems so bizarre to me, to make up an entire religion based in no small part on what was almost certainly a lie by a young couple experimenting together.

If Jesus was just another person, then no religion would have been created. But he performed miracles.
If you don't believe that Jesus was the son of God and was an ordinary person, that's fine. I don't care what your religion is.
I believe Jesus is the son of God. I believe he came to deliver us from sin.
I believe Buddha was a wise man, and millions of people believe in him. But I don't discount their religion by referring to him as the big fat dude in a diaper. It's disrespectful. Please have the same respect for Christians.

So what are your thoughts on ol' Joe Smith or L. Ron Hubbard?

Anonymous wrote:And Joseph believed Mary? Who's to say the child wasn't someone else's, even if the two of them weren't fooling around?

Paying for sex and lying about sex are some of the oldest forms of human behavior.

And out of all of the stuff in the Christmas story that's what tweaks your skepticism? Not angels or wise men or a star in the east?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wasn't Mary married? Why would she be a virgin as a married woman? Or was she supposed to have been impregnated before she was married?

Why would anyone have believed her? If your daughter came to you & said, "Guess what mom, I'm pregnant and it is God's baby not my boyfriend's." Would you believe her?

Just go read the gospels, and then believe them or not as you see fit. This was already explained by a PP.

Not helpful. One poster said unmarried, one eluded to her being married, one said virgin may not mean virgin. I'm on my phone so searching for the gospels is not that easily done right know. Should not be surprised that a request for information is meet with resistance when it comes to religion.

I thought she was married. Wouldn't a married woman have had sex with her husband. Thought the bible encouraged sexual relations in a marriage. Didn't see an answer to the would you believe your daughter.

Mary was betrothed (engaged) to Joseph at the time of conception. Therefore not married, and by belief, a virgin. An angel appeared to Joseph and told him Mary would have the son of God.

Isn't it more likely that Joseph and Mary had some premarital sex. Joseph made up a story that he was visited by an angel to distract scorn, and Mary said she was a virgin? It seems so bizarre to me, to make up an entire religion based in no small part on what was almost certainly a lie by a young couple experimenting together.

If Jesus was just another person, then no religion would have been created. But he performed miracles.
If you don't believe that Jesus was the son of God and was an ordinary person, that's fine. I don't care what your religion is.
I believe Jesus is the son of God. I believe he came to deliver us from sin.
I believe Buddha was a wise man, and millions of people believe in him. But I don't discount their religion by referring to him as the big fat dude in a diaper. It's disrespectful. Please have the same respect for Christians.

+1. Please note, Jeff created the religious forum to be a place where religion could be discussed respectfully, and he explicitly asks for it. If you want to be crass, provocative, rude or obnoxious, take it to off-topic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yes, I'm quite sure that was it. Mary and Joseph were just liars. SMH.

Right, because being a pregnant virgin and giving birth to god is much more likely than some frisky kids engaging in, and lying about having sex. Yup. That latter is just crazy! No one ever lies about sex!

That's the whole point. Why would two regular old teenagers end up being the mother and stepfather of Jesus Christ? I'm thinking they wouldn't.

And Joseph believed Mary? Who's to say the child wasn't someone else's, even if the two of them weren't fooling around?

Paying for sex and lying about sex are some of the oldest forms of human behavior.

Anonymous wrote:Oh yes, I'm quite sure that was it. Mary and Joseph were just liars. SMH.

Right, because being a pregnant virgin and giving birth to god is much more likely than some frisky kids engaging in, and lying about having sex. Yup. That latter is just crazy! No one ever lies about sex!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wasn't Mary married? Why would she be a virgin as a married woman? Or was she supposed to have been impregnated before she was married?

Why would anyone have believed her? If your daughter came to you & said, "Guess what mom, I'm pregnant and it is God's baby not my boyfriend's." Would you believe her?

Just go read the gospels, and then believe them or not as you see fit. This was already explained by a PP.

Not helpful. One poster said unmarried, one eluded to her being married, one said virgin may not mean virgin. I'm on my phone so searching for the gospels is not that easily done right know. Should not be surprised that a request for information is meet with resistance when it comes to religion.

I thought she was married. Wouldn't a married woman have had sex with her husband. Thought the bible encouraged sexual relations in a marriage. Didn't see an answer to the would you believe your daughter.

Mary was betrothed (engaged) to Joseph at the time of conception. Therefore not married, and by belief, a virgin. An angel appeared to Joseph and told him Mary would have the son of God.

Isn't it more likely that Joseph and Mary had some premarital sex. Joseph made up a story that he was visited by an angel to distract scorn, and Mary said she was a virgin? It seems so bizarre to me, to make up an entire religion based in no small part on what was almost certainly a lie by a young couple experimenting together.

If Jesus was just another person, then no religion would have been created. But he performed miracles.
If you don't believe that Jesus was the son of God and was an ordinary person, that's fine. I don't care what your religion is.
I believe Jesus is the son of God. I believe he came to deliver us from sin.
I believe Buddha was a wise man, and millions of people believe in him. But I don't discount their religion by referring to him as the big fat dude in a diaper. It's disrespectful. Please have the same respect for Christians.

NP here, a Catholic.

Regarding OPs other questions, Catholics can believe Bible stories either literally or can see them as stories that are attempting to make larger points. Catholics can believe in evolution, for example--they do not have to take the creation story literally. I did a little research on this because I'm rather science-oriented and didn't want to be contradicting my kids' teachers (too much), so didn't send them to a particular protestant school where they take the Bible literally.

Oh yes, I'm quite sure that was it. Mary and Joseph were just liars. SMH.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wasn't Mary married? Why would she be a virgin as a married woman? Or was she supposed to have been impregnated before she was married?

Why would anyone have believed her? If your daughter came to you & said, "Guess what mom, I'm pregnant and it is God's baby not my boyfriend's." Would you believe her?

Just go read the gospels, and then believe them or not as you see fit. This was already explained by a PP.

Not helpful. One poster said unmarried, one eluded to her being married, one said virgin may not mean virgin. I'm on my phone so searching for the gospels is not that easily done right know. Should not be surprised that a request for information is meet with resistance when it comes to religion.

I thought she was married. Wouldn't a married woman have had sex with her husband. Thought the bible encouraged sexual relations in a marriage. Didn't see an answer to the would you believe your daughter.

Mary was betrothed (engaged) to Joseph at the time of conception. Therefore not married, and by belief, a virgin. An angel appeared to Joseph and told him Mary would have the son of God.

Isn't it more likely that Joseph and Mary had some premarital sex. Joseph made up a story that he was visited by an angel to distract scorn, and Mary said she was a virgin? It seems so bizarre to me, to make up an entire religion based in no small part on what was almost certainly a lie by a young couple experimenting together.

If you want to know what Roman Catholics believe when they say that Mary was the product of Immaculate Conception, you can look it up in the Catholic Encyclopedia. It specifies that Mary's father "had the usual part in her conception." She is without original sin, which is not the sin of parental sex, but the sinfulness of being separate from God that we inherit from Adam and Eve.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't forget that Mary's mother also had her by immaculate conception. Because lord knows that a woman who has had sex or is of a woman who has had sex is a dirty whore. No way would she be worthy of the son of god.

The Immaculate Conception refers to Mary being born WITHOUT original sin. It has nothing to do with her mother having or not having sex.

+1 Good Lord people, whether you believe or not, if you plan to comment on religion it helps to have studied it so that you know what you are talking about. Otherwise, do please refrain from these comments.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Christians as a whole believe one thing - Jesus Christ being the son of God - everything else is negotiable/negligible.

What are "Christians as a whole?" There a so many Christian demonimations that it is really pointless and impossible to try to talk about them as a whole. Not to mention flippant to suggest that the beliefs of specific demonimations are negligible. It's not negligible to them.

I am not Muslim so correct me if I am wrong. But I believe in the Quran, Jesus is a "messanger of God" not the "son of God".

You are not wrong as far as your faith tradition. Christians believe that Jesus is the son of God; God made flesh.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't forget that Mary's mother also had her by immaculate conception. Because lord knows that a woman who has had sex or is of a woman who has had sex is a dirty whore. No way would she be worthy of the son of god.

The Immaculate Conception refers to Mary being born WITHOUT original sin. It has nothing to do with her mother having or not having sex.

Does that not mean that Mary's mother was a virgin when she conceived Mary?

It's understandable to come to that conclusion, but it's not in the bible. She was "full of grace" and "without sin". But her conception isn't detailed. Writings have that she was choose before birth and "protected" from sin.

Hmm, I dunno. That's not what wikipedia seems to think:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception

Nice of you to provide the link. However, you should have read it. First, Mary's conception is NOT detailed in the bible. Over the centuries there have been various beliefs. The current Catholic doctrine is that she has an earthly mother and father (not a virgin conception like Jesus), but from the moment of conception, God preserved her from "all stain of original sin".
Again, the whole faith and belief thing. So Mary's parents had sex, and she was conceived. But in that moment of conception, by the Grace of god, original sin was not transferred to her.