Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lets face it, public education in the state of NC is crap. I taught there and I know. If the university has to accept 80% of its applicants from in state the school cannot be that great. The OOS students help boost the averages, the in state students would be attending Radford if they were in VA

This is something I always wondered about. I have never lived in NC but just had friend that had moved there. I have been told that the k-12 education has always been lacking yet they have always had a great reputation with the university. How does this work. The kids are not taught well until college? I know states like Massachusetts have great k-12 education. The state university(U Mass) does not do as well because it competes for talent with all the private universities. States like Virginia, Michigan, Wisconsin, seem to have both strong k-12 and public universities. I just don't see how UNC has such a great university but not so at k-12.

I am from NC and I don't see much difference between k12 in VA vs. NC. NC has all-day kindergarten, while parts of VA don't. NC has NCSSM; VA has TJ.

We moved from NC to NOVA and the k-12 education here is light years better. My friends still in NC can't believe the academic opportunities my FCPS kids have, from AAP to advanced math/7th grade Algebra to TJ and "all those APs"-- let alone an IB option. But agree that this does not accurately k-12 education in other parts of VA

But your TJ/NCSSM comparison is just wrong. NCSSM is 11th-12th grade only, and is a boarding school. Not even the brightest kids I grew up with considered it for this reason-- you are essentially heading off to college at 16. And none of the parents I know who are still in NC want their kids to apply for exactly this reason. The wealthy parents who want a HS boarding school experience for their kids want it for 4 years-- and can pay for better facilities near more of a prep school experience. So NCSSM is actually not all that within NC, because most bright, affluent kids would never apply.

Anonymous wrote:Calling UNC a "cheat school" and criticizing the scandal (which ended in 2011..) is ridiculous. Yes, there were some paper classes in the AAAD department. But does this mean the whole school is a joke? No. It means that some athletes degrees shouldn't be as highly regarded, but UNC still has top professors in many fields that challenge their students daily. UNC shouldn't be less acclaimed as a whole just because of two athletic departments and one academic department. The sanctions on UNC are just to prove a point.

Football powerhouse schools do the same things to their athletes. If these paper classes were found at University of Alabama or Ole Miss, it wouldn't even make headlines. The fact is, it happened at UNC, a prestigious school, so its a scandal.

To call it a poor school is clearly just ignorant, as UNC still holds a spot in the top 5 public universities. The "cheating" only applies to African Studies students and athletes in certain sports who graduated before 2011. And honestly, what is worse? Paper classes, or an administration that buries rape allegations for the honor of the school and whose students berate others for wanting to report sexual assault?

This is all true. It's doubtful that the cheating scandal had a negative impact on academic outcomes for most students. But, as a grad of a different ACC school, I'm still appalled. That the cheating was so systemic, and so well known within parts of the school and went on for so long says some not so great things about the values of the Administration. I mean, sports teams are a nice part of the college experience and go Demon Deacons!, but does UNC or any college, exist to play football, or educate students? It seems like the administration had the wrong answer to this question for years. Now the whole school has a black eye, and is living with some serious consequences.

Meh. I grew up in NC, and UNC was strictly a safety school for top tier kids, who tried for Duke, Davidson or Wake. My sister who was an okay student went, and is also in the meh category. It it tough to get into OOS, no doubt. But once you're there, you are with a class that is 80% in state.

If I had a kid with the stats to get in from OOS, and was looking at paying OOS tuition, I would send them to Duke or Wake instead. Or any number of other private universities with stronger academics. I see the instate upside-- $$$$ & flagship state U. I do not see any upside for an OOS student.

PS and if you want STEM or engineering, NC state is stronger anyway.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UNC is a very good school, but as an out of stater I'd choose Duke over UNC. Better professors, much bigger endowment and more financial aid. Probably better at STEM. More geographically diverse student body. Although I will say Chapel Hill is a slightly better town than Durham.

Durham is a crime ridden dump

You're about 15 years behind the times. Durham is hot now. And in one of the top metro areas in the country.

Anonymous wrote:UNC is a very good school, but as an out of stater I'd choose Duke over UNC. Better professors, much bigger endowment and more financial aid. Probably better at STEM. More geographically diverse student body. Although I will say Chapel Hill is a slightly better town than Durham.

Durham is a crime ridden dump

UNC is a very good school, but as an out of stater I'd choose Duke over UNC. Better professors, much bigger endowment and more financial aid. Probably better at STEM. More geographically diverse student body. Although I will say Chapel Hill is a slightly better town than Durham.

UMD just passed UNC on incoming SAT and ACT scores. Inventing fake courses and graduating illiterate athletes for decades is the sign of an un-serious academic institution.

The University of North Carolina Chapel Hill is the oldest public university in the United States. The oldest, as founded as a public school and has continually operated as a public school since admitting students, (no, not William and Mary because it is private now. And no, not UGA because UNC matriculated students FIRST and has continued to do so every year since). As far as the whole public k-12 thing in NC goes: we also have some very good HSs in the state - some are nationally ranked. Also, many UNC students didn't attend public schools, but instead schools such as Woodberry Forest, Asheville School, Foxcroft, etc., which are well regarded boarding schools. Those who did attend NC public schools are typically the "cream of the crop." There are NO slouches at Carolina. This state has PLENTY of other universities to serve those with lower academic HS records. But do know, that UNC's mission is to serve OUR STATE'S brightest. Not OOS nessicarily. Carolina is a preppy southerner's dream school. While at the same time, welcoming those who can get in from OOS. And yes, we limit OOS admission to 18%, because again, UNC is for North Carolinians primarily. I can guarantee that those who come to Carolina and do well, will be welcomed to apply to the most rigorous graduate programs in this country. Furthermore, in state tuition at Carolina cannot be beat vs the educational opportunities offered. And no, I didn't go to UNC as an undergraduate, as my record wasn't competitive for admission. I instead graduated from WVU. (A school that is grossly underestimated due to its lower freshman admissions standards, just like other Flagships in smaller states. Just like Ole Miss, Arkansas, Alabama, etc.). It would be my estimation that a VA student who chooses Carolina over UVa probably doesn't want to spend an additional 4/5 years in college in the NOVA or Richmond "bubbles." But make no mistake, with the influence of the nation's capital and the caliber of alumni, UVa is very prestigious. Especially on the east coast. Remember, there are over 4,100 colleges in this country. And a degree from ANY of the above is something of which to be proud. Lastly, yes Michigan is a fantastic school. And if I could stand a place even colder than was WVU, I would most certainly attend UM if I were you. However, being that this thread has some age on it, I would be interested in your final decision. How have things worked out for you OP?

Anonymous wrote:Tell me about UNC-Chapel Hill, please. Is it prestigious? Is it on par with Michigan, UVA? I am particularly interested in hearing from anyone not from the state of NC who went there. Were the Tar Heels easily accepting of someone from the Northeast?

I dunno about prestigious....

Anonymous wrote:http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/opinion-shop/article36377526.html

12 Steps To UNC Delirium

"We have learned a lot about “The Carolina Way” in the last few months, and it seems to be a 12-step process in a recent example of 18 years of academic and athletic fraud:

Step 1: Bury the whistleblower
Step 2: Spend $1 million to hire PR spinmasters
Step 3: Conduct obligatory internal review lite 1
Step 4: Ease out unaccountable AD into early retirement with full benefits, move chancellor back to professor
Step 5: Stall, obfuscate, stall, see if news reporters can figure it out
Step 6: Hire friendly investigator, who sees no need to really interview anyone
Step 7: Trot out head coaches to earnestly claim they had no idea
Step 8: Bury whistleblower No. 2: player who took the courses ... well he’s crazy
Step 9: Just to keep him around, extend the head basketball coach’s contract
Step 10: Keep those pesky reporters happy with real investigation
Step 11: Interpret results yourself, take 89 days of NCAA 90-day response period, come up with a new delay to get through football and basketball season, keep the BS flowing to the new recruits
Step 12: Throw Hall of Fame women’s basketball coach under the bus, get her set for early retirement, problem solved!"

“The Carolina Way”

I lived in Raleigh, and the News and Observer was terribly biased for UNC-CH. For them to allow an editorial like that means things are really bad...

Calling UNC a "cheat school" and criticizing the scandal (which ended in 2011..) is ridiculous. Yes, there were some paper classes in the AAAD department. But does this mean the whole school is a joke? No. It means that some athletes degrees shouldn't be as highly regarded, but UNC still has top professors in many fields that challenge their students daily. UNC shouldn't be less acclaimed as a whole just because of two athletic departments and one academic department. The sanctions on UNC are just to prove a point.

Football powerhouse schools do the same things to their athletes. If these paper classes were found at University of Alabama or Ole Miss, it wouldn't even make headlines. The fact is, it happened at UNC, a prestigious school, so its a scandal.

To call it a poor school is clearly just ignorant, as UNC still holds a spot in the top 5 public universities. The "cheating" only applies to African Studies students and athletes in certain sports who graduated before 2011. And honestly, what is worse? Paper classes, or an administration that buries rape allegations for the honor of the school and whose students berate others for wanting to report sexual assault?

I'm from the DC area and am in my last year at UNC-Chapel Hill. I applied to both UVA, U Mich and UNC. I got into all three.

The UNC experience was difficult at first as many freshman already had friends from high school, but the southern hospitality was evident. It is definitely harder to join a sorority if you are from out of state. Within a few weeks I had a solid group of friends and always had invites to go home with locals for the breaks. In my last year though I can say that I identify more with out-of-staters and my best friend and boyfriend are out-of-state.

University of Michigan was too far, too large and too cold. I have many friends who go there (as it was extremely easy to get into out of state if you had above a 3.5 in high school) and struggle with SADD and how far away it is - they can rarely come home. I had family in Michigan, but still wasn't feeling it. So, for me, it was UNC vs. UVA. UVA seemed to have a slightly higher academic reputation, but when you really look into that instead of just taking the rankings at face worth, UVA is really only impressive for the humanities. UNC was perfect for the sciences. There are so many opportunities to become involved with research and volunteer in the hospital. I've made invaluable connections with PI's and medical professionals. UVA didn't seem to have the same span of opportunities.

Next was the visit. I liked that UVA was closer, and was leaning towards it. After one visit, the vibes of the campus threw me off. People were pushing past you not even saying excuse me. Everyone dressed ridiculously nice and I had a feeling if I was paying OOS tuition I wouldn't be able to afford the same types of clothing. It was 30% Greek and this was very evident. I even ended up joining a sorority at UNC, but I hated how it was the main focus of the social scene at UVA. I got a very pretentious vibe. It wasn't campus, it was "grounds." It wasn't sophomore, it was "second year." And don't even try to criticize something the administration does - I mentioned that the single sanction honor court system seemed a bit draconian and received an hour long defense from a UVA student. At first, I thought wow these people really love their school! But the blind loyalty is almost sickening to a point. They are so loyal to their school that nobody will critique it. It is very much a culture and a tradition. If you are into this and you were raised a hoo, go for it. But you have to know that if you are not the UVA type, you will struggle here. It is a bit smaller than UNC and thats pretty evident once you step onto campus - oops, I mean grounds. It is definitely beautiful with the mountain views and the Rotunda. But, the Corner is very small compared to Franklin St. Most people go to Boylan Heights and Trinity, and you run into the same crowds. It is EXTREMELY easy to get into these bars with fake IDs - ABC is almost non-existant ever since the racism incident. A little bit trickier at UNC.

Basically, if you buy into the UVA culture, you'll love it. But if you stop and really think about it, it's a bit sickening. I chose to avoid it.

UNC definitely has its flaws, from the parking situation to academic advisors. But in the end, it was the choice for me. Way more liberal and the RTP triangle is growing. A more diverse student body with more diverse views. People critiquing the administration and calling for progress every day - saw this the first time I visited when I walked through the Pit. Franklin St expands into Carrboro offering a plethora of dining options - even more once you get a car. 10+ bars so that you don't see the same people every night. Dean Dome and rushing Franklin. Although there have been tough times as an OOS student for sure, I have never regretted my decision. I visited UVA again over fall break to see some friends and this just affirmed my choice - they came off more snobby, drank way more than ever before, and really only wanted to talk about how great UVA was. I missed the southern part of heaven and in my senior year, became fully confident that I made the right choice.

http://www.heraldsun.com/opinion/letters-to-the-editor-oct

The Herald-Sun (Durham, N.C.)

"I bristled when reading the words of UNC Provost Jim Dean ("UNC Provost: "Progress" seen on paper-classes scandal," Oct. 1). When referring to UNC's athletic/academic scandal, the provost said "not everyone really seems to want to get past it."

Speaking as a proud UNC graduate ('71) and after reading "Cheated: The UNC Scandal, the Education of Athletes, and the Future of Big-Time College Sports," I do not want to "get past it" until sweeping changes occur.

Why sweeping changes? Because UNC now stands at the forefront of college athletic/academic scandals. For 18 years, UNC housed a program that cheated many athletes of their promised educations by creating a scheme whereby athletes were placed in courses with little or no content. All this, while a number of administrators, athletic officials and faculty looked the other way.

If it were not for professor Jay Smith, whistleblower Mary Willingham and others, this exploitation of athletes may not have come to light. For the provost to urge people to "get past it" is the same threat that Smith and Willingham faced when first examining the true extent of the scandal.

UNC's motto is "Lux, Libertas" (light, liberty). "Light" is not an administrator's push to "get past" issues that still sorely trouble my university.

John E. Chase

Durham"

http://college.usatoday.com/2015/06/11/unc-probation-accreditation-agency/

UNC-CH placed on probation by accreditation agency

June 11, 2015
"The Southern Association of Colleges and Schools’ Commission on Colleges has placed the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill on a year-long probationary period — the harshest sanction before revocation of accreditation."

"The Carolina Way"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend whose son turned down Uva for UNC. He's a VA resident.

And I know some VA residents who turned down UVA for Mich. I think all these schools mentioned on this thread (UCLA, UNC, UVA, Mich) are very similar in prestige, academics... They are all good, large, flagship state schools that are a great deal for those living in that state. But almost always, if someone turns down its own state flagship school for another state's flagship school, it's generally because cost isn't an issue for them (maybe because of scholarship, maybe because the family had enough money that the difference in tuition costs wasn't a big deal).

Money was not an issue for this family. He just liked the environment at UNC more than UVa. Honestly, the schools are ranked close enough that barring finances, I see no good reason other than preference for choosing one over the other.