Anonymous
12/04/2013 16:38
Subject: Re:Vincent Gray Running for Reelection
Anonymous wrote:How about the perception being that he appointed an inexperienced schools chancellor -- born out by the string of mistakes Rhee made that made things worse rather than better? I'm white and upper middle class -- my issue with Fenty was his poor judgment in hiring Rhee, not his race. And you know what? I bet the African-American parents at my kid's school also took issue with her poor management style rather than Fenty's race.Anonymous wrote:Especially with Gray channeling himself to Black radio, speaking in a Black dialect, etc. Fenty didn't even pretend to be Black. He identified himself as mixed-race. Did this hurt him in 2006? No. In 2006 he was Black enough. But by 2010, with the perception that he was catering to White, upper-class interests, he was no longer viewed as "Black enough". Then he was half White, with a wife who was a foreigner.
Folks, if you want to make it only about race, you're entitled to but the reality is that Fenty screwed up on some very important issues and he didn't make those mistakes because he was mixed race - he made them because he thought he could do no wrong and then refused to deal with the consequences.
I've said this already -- yes -- what contributed to the perception that he wasn't black enough by catering to white, upper class interests in a variety of ways -- his appointments, his priorities -- all of that. The fact that he also happened to be mixed race was only a contributing factor -- a small contributing factor -- to the feeling/conclusion of many Black people that he was not Black enough.
Anonymous
12/04/2013 15:39
Subject: Vincent Gray Running for Reelection
I bet Bill Clinton giving a speech in Arkansas sounds different than Bill Clinton giving a speech in New Hampshire.Anonymous wrote:I did not hear the Gray segment that was mentioned, but I think most people whose speech has changed during their lives (my NY accent, if I still have one, is certainly less than in my chidhood, for example) tend to match those they are speaking with. You don't even have to think to instinctively blend with those around you.
Anonymous
12/04/2013 15:36
Subject: Re:Vincent Gray Running for Reelection
+1Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:"not to mention Gray IF an indictment comes after the primary"
Boy, you are really putting yourself out on a limb here. I agree that if Gray is indicted, he will not be mayor. But he will not be indicted. If that were going to happen, it would have happened quite awhile ago.
Catania cannot beat Gray head-to-head as things stand now. If Gray is indicted, I could beat him. So, you've essentially said nothing at all.
I believe it they had enough on Grey he would have been indicted by now. I will say that the prosecutor needs to reveal his hand or move on its not fair to the voters
Anonymous
12/04/2013 15:36
Subject: Re:Vincent Gray Running for Reelection
Anonymous wrote:How about the perception being that he appointed an inexperienced schools chancellor -- born out by the string of mistakes Rhee made that made things worse rather than better? I'm white and upper middle class -- my issue with Fenty was his poor judgment in hiring Rhee, not his race. And you know what? I bet the African-American parents at my kid's school also took issue with her poor management style rather than Fenty's race.Anonymous wrote:Especially with Gray channeling himself to Black radio, speaking in a Black dialect, etc. Fenty didn't even pretend to be Black. He identified himself as mixed-race. Did this hurt him in 2006? No. In 2006 he was Black enough. But by 2010, with the perception that he was catering to White, upper-class interests, he was no longer viewed as "Black enough". Then he was half White, with a wife who was a foreigner.
Folks, if you want to make it only about race, you're entitled to but the reality is that Fenty screwed up on some very important issues and he didn't make those mistakes because he was mixed race - he made them because he thought he could do no wrong and then refused to deal with the consequences.
thank you!
Anonymous
12/04/2013 15:34
Subject: Re:Vincent Gray Running for Reelection
How about the perception being that he appointed an inexperienced schools chancellor -- born out by the string of mistakes Rhee made that made things worse rather than better? I'm white and upper middle class -- my issue with Fenty was his poor judgment in hiring Rhee, not his race. And you know what? I bet the African-American parents at my kid's school also took issue with her poor management style rather than Fenty's race.Anonymous wrote:Especially with Gray channeling himself to Black radio, speaking in a Black dialect, etc. Fenty didn't even pretend to be Black. He identified himself as mixed-race. Did this hurt him in 2006? No. In 2006 he was Black enough. But by 2010, with the perception that he was catering to White, upper-class interests, he was no longer viewed as "Black enough". Then he was half White, with a wife who was a foreigner.
Folks, if you want to make it only about race, you're entitled to but the reality is that Fenty screwed up on some very important issues and he didn't make those mistakes because he was mixed race - he made them because he thought he could do no wrong and then refused to deal with the consequences.
Anonymous
12/04/2013 15:32
Subject: Vincent Gray Running for Reelection
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:jsteele wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wquote]
That's a BS lie you like to keep telling yourself. In Fenty's first run for mayor, he swept every ward in the city. That word every would include the overwhelmingly Black populated Wards 5,7 and 8. Fenty was a terrible mayor, that people across all racial lines could no longer tolerate as their mayor. But, you can stick with your fantasy version of reality.
I am not lying. I cannot be lying when voicing an opinion. One can lie about facts, but not opinions. Also, you missed my explanation above, for the most part, I agree with you. But with all of his political mistakes, being mixed race was icing on the cake.
Your opinion is a lie. You statement that Blacks in DC chose to vote against Fenty because he was not Black enough is ludicrous. Well what did the Latinos think. He was never Latino and he lost their votes as well. I think Fenty's disengagement from the economically disenfranchised communities was his downfall, but if you want to put everything in Black and white so-be it. BTW--do you think Al Sharpton or Jessie Jackson Sr is too Black for most Black Americans, for they both lost the Black vote during the primaries against Bill Clinton for the presidency.
My problem with you is that if you are Black, doubtful, you speak as if you are the authority of Blackness. You can only speak for yourself. You only have one vote. So did you not vote for Fenty because he was not Black enough, or did you vote for him because (your words) he had enough Whiteness. That crap sounded stupid even as I was typing it, but I am following your warped line of thinking. Alternatively, if you are not Black, you are the special but typical white person who thinks they can speak on behalf of Black Americans. In your mind, we need you to tell us how to think and act. For afterall, according to people like you, we have the intelligence of a child and we need massa/misses to control us.
Anonymous
12/04/2013 15:26
Subject: Re:Vincent Gray Running for Reelection
Pinky, I agree with most of what you've written here but the truth is that Fenty made a lot of mistakes. I voted for him with enthusiasm the first time around but he alienated me so much that I wrote Gray and asked him to run -- not that my email made any difference but just to show you how much an original Fenty supporter like me could have been so turned off.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Catania has yet to announce that he's running.
I have more political insight in my pinky finger than some of you do on here. The CMs will split the anti-Gray vote, and Gray will win. 100% -- Gray wins. Talking about what may have happened four years ago is going to get very boring, very quickly, too. He has a very good campaign manager.
And I will vote for Gray, though he is not my first choice. Why? Because strategically, he is my best choice if I don't want Wells. And I really do not want Wells.
Catania has not announced because this is a primary he's not running in. His turn, as an independent, is in November, when it will basically be one on one between him (if he runs) and the winner of the Dem primary. At that point Gray (if your pinky is right) is running against someone who has won more city-wide elections than he has, someone who is clearly smart, and is well-liked by many. What does pinky finger say about that election?
Pinky here. First, Catania has now announced that he's running, so apparently he did not feel a need to wait until November.
As to your question about Gray vs. Catania (who I happen to like and could actually be my first choice, if I could make a mayoral appointment): On what planet do you spend most of your time? For one thing, Catania is an Independent. DC is overwhelmingly Democratic. Strike one -- and it's a big one. Catania is White, and I have serious reservations as to whether the Black half of DC is ready for a White Mayor. Catania is prickly. And Catania is gay. And, as far as we may have come, we haven't come that far -- particularly with a lot of mainstream Blacks. Chuck Thies is managing Gray's campaign. He is quite formidable. Put Gray and Catania head-to-head and I don't even see it being close.
Here's what a lot of uber-liberal Whites do not understand: Working class Blacks in DC, who are getting to work at 6 AM to try to feed their families don't even know who Wells is. Why is that? Because they have no time to listen to livable, walkable, bikeable bullshit. They have no time for Tommy's traveling book club, nor to be exhorted to "buy local", nor to listen to him cry that the National Theatre isn't serving local beer. And Catania? The White, Gay, Cranky, Independent? Pinky says good luck with that.
Yes, we are going to hear people talk and talk and talk and talk about what Gray may have done 4 years ago, or may have known 4 years ago -- but as I said, that is going to get boring pretty quickly. He showed good leadership during the shutdown. I could name some other things, but it's very hard for me to sing Gray's praises when I still haven't forgiven him for running against Fenty four years ago. I will not be running to the polls to vote for Gray. But I will vote for him, because he is the best strategic choice for me.
Anonymous
12/04/2013 15:22
Subject: Re:Vincent Gray Running for Reelection
You have a reading comprehension problem. I said none of the things you have attributed to me.
Anonymous
12/04/2013 15:22
Subject: Re:Vincent Gray Running for Reelection
Anonymous wrote:
Today , well, thanks to the DC Builder's Assoc getting the HPRB lined with its nominees ( thanks to Gray) its open season....build whatever you want as long as it has a sprinkler system. Pretty soon there will be a roof deck overlooking the Washington monument and condos being built in Arlington cemetary.
This is pretty funny. The most "conservative" members of HPRB were nominated by Grey, and people all over town reject new historic districts because of their limits on property rights. Further, people complain about all of the bland architecture in the city, both within and beyond historic districts.
Anonymous
12/04/2013 14:47
Subject: Vincent Gray Running for Reelection
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:jsteele wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wquote]
That's a BS lie you like to keep telling yourself. In Fenty's first run for mayor, he swept every ward in the city. That word every would include the overwhelmingly Black populated Wards 5,7 and 8. Fenty was a terrible mayor, that people across all racial lines could no longer tolerate as their mayor. But, you can stick with your fantasy version of reality.
I am not lying. I cannot be lying when voicing an opinion. One can lie about facts, but not opinions. Also, you missed my explanation above, for the most part, I agree with you. But with all of his political mistakes, being mixed race was icing on the cake.
Your opinion is a lie. You statement that Blacks in DC chose to vote against Fenty because he was not Black enough is ludicrous. Well what did the Latinos think. He was never Latino and he lost their votes as well. I think Fenty's disengagement from the economically disenfranchised communities was his downfall, but if you want to put everything in Black and white so-be it. BTW--do you think Al Sharpton or Jessie Jackson Sr is too Black for most Black Americans, for they both lost the Black vote during the primaries against Bill Clinton for the presidency.
My problem with you is that if you are Black, doubtful, you speak as if you are the authority of Blackness. You can only speak for yourself. You only have one vote. So did you not vote for Fenty because he was not Black enough, or did you vote for him because (your words) he had enough Whiteness. That crap sounded stupid even as I was typing it, but I am following your warped line of thinking. Alternatively, if you are not Black, you are the special but typical white person who thinks they can speak on behalf of Black Americans. In your mind, we need you to tell us how to think and act. For afterall, according to people like you, we have the intelligence of a child and we need massa/misses to control us.
Anonymous
12/04/2013 12:47
Subject: Re:Vincent Gray Running for Reelection
The best part of all of this is that when Wells loses for Mayor, we will no longer have to endure him as a CM. I am going to be dancing a huge happy dance when that happens. Maybe he can go back to being a therapist. I'm sure people will come running. Or try to start a law office. Good luck with that.
Wells also has no children. Which mean he knows nothing of what it is like to be a parent. Working parent, SAH parent, upper class, middle class, or lower class parent. He also has no first-hand knowledge of the problems faced by children in this town. He spends his time tweeting about the nationality of waiters at restaurants, the lack of local beer at the National Theatre, walking and biking and shopping local, and how proud of himself he is. I cannot imagine a candidate more out of touch with the mainstream concerns of DC.
Wells also has no children. Which mean he knows nothing of what it is like to be a parent. Working parent, SAH parent, upper class, middle class, or lower class parent. He also has no first-hand knowledge of the problems faced by children in this town. He spends his time tweeting about the nationality of waiters at restaurants, the lack of local beer at the National Theatre, walking and biking and shopping local, and how proud of himself he is. I cannot imagine a candidate more out of touch with the mainstream concerns of DC.
Anonymous
12/04/2013 12:42
Subject: Vincent Gray Running for Reelection
Anonymous wrote:I did not hear the Gray segment that was mentioned, but I think most people whose speech has changed during their lives (my NY accent, if I still have one, is certainly less than in my chidhood, for example) tend to match those they are speaking with. You don't even have to think to instinctively blend with those around you.
This is true for Obama, but not for Gray.
Anonymous
12/04/2013 12:41
Subject: Re:Vincent Gray Running for Reelection
jsteele wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Yes, I know. You also said that the Republicans had nothing to gain by giving federal employees backpay, and that we should wait for their true motives to reveal themselves before we counted our chickens.
And then we all got backpay.
Machen has plenty of people to delegate portions of work of what must be one of his most important cases. The USAO also has access to DOJ's Federal Programs Branch, and those attorneys are not be messed with. They get done done. Machen had to suspect that Gray would run for reelection if not indicted by this time. He had to know what a disservice it would be to the public to allow it to go this far without an indictment. You can theorize or try to guess what people's ulterior motives may be until the sun goes down, comes up, and goes down again. I got my backpay, and Gray's not being indicted.
I'm not sure why you want to discuss an unrelated topic, but apparently you slept through the government shutdown and did not realize that the motives of the Republicans became very clear: to split small spending plans off from the main CR and use them as wedges against the Democrats. That's the same reason the House passed funding for DC.
But, back to the topic of this thread, the USAO announced as recently as yesterday that their investigation continues. Do you believe that Jeff Thompson will not be indicted? He has not been indicted to date. Yet, the USAO must have a lot more on him than on Gray. So, saying that a lack of an indictment at this time means there will not be an indictment doesn't make a lot of sense. Also, remember what happened with Michael Brown. He ran for Council despite knowing he was likely to be charged with a felony. The USAO quietly persuaded him to withdraw and Brown was indicted after the election. We might not be at the "quite persuasion" stage of the Gray investigation yet.
Re: Your first point. You made up a motive after the fact. Anyone can do that. I was trying to show by example that you always want to read into things. I could hand you a cigar and you'd question my motives. But sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Re: Investigations always remain open, at least until that statute of limitations has run, and sometimes afterwards. For the USAO to say that their investigation continues is no more important than they're saying they are going to eat lunch.
Unlike you, I don't know if Jeff Thompson will be indicted. I have no crystal ball. I do know that Jeff Thompson is not running for Mayor. So there is not the same political pressure to shit or get off the pot.
As for the Michael Brown analogy - - #fail. Brown was some piddly CM; Gray is the Mayor. And I don't think it would take much to trigger the "quiet persuasion" stage as to Gray. All it would take is one call, "Hello, Mr. Mayor, it's Ron Machen. How are you today. I'm fine, thanks. I just wanted to let you know that our investigation of you remains very, very active, and we're getting closer by the day to taking action. You may want to consider this in deciding whether to run for a second term. Have a good day."
Do you think that if Gray received such a call, he would have run again? Do you doubt for one second that, before accepting the job of campaign manager, Chuck Thies was not smart enough to explore precisely this question? Do you think the Mayor would have told a direct lie to Chuck Thies and live long enough to apologize for it?
Anonymous
12/04/2013 12:35
Subject: Vincent Gray Running for Reelection
I did not hear the Gray segment that was mentioned, but I think most people whose speech has changed during their lives (my NY accent, if I still have one, is certainly less than in my chidhood, for example) tend to match those they are speaking with. You don't even have to think to instinctively blend with those around you.
Anonymous
12/04/2013 12:30
Subject: Re:Vincent Gray Running for Reelection
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Especially with Gray channeling himself to Black radio, speaking in a Black dialect, etc. Fenty didn't even pretend to be Black. He identified himself as mixed-race. Did this hurt him in 2006? No. In 2006 he was Black enough. But by 2010, with the perception that he was catering to White, upper-class interests, he was no longer viewed as "Black enough". Then he was half White, with a wife who was a foreigner.
No need to further this discussion. Thank you for outing yourself for what you truly are.
You are welcome. I am proud to have outed myself as an educated, open-minded person who is not afraid to discuss uncomfortable issues in a fair way. I have outed myself as someone who refuses to be bullied by dogmatists like you.