Anonymous
11/06/2013 16:59
Subject: Go to law school?
Anonymous wrote:Why do people say law is in the toilet, yet so many lawyers post about their 6 figure careers on here?
The likely have been lawyers for awhile and have the experience/education to demand a 6 figure career. I doubt the ones who make 50K a year are reporting in that that is what they make. The law "bubble" popped awhile ago and is now a completely over saturated market. New grads have to be at the top of their games.
Anonymous
11/06/2013 16:56
Subject: Go to law school?
Why do people say law is in the toilet, yet so many lawyers post about their 6 figure careers on here?
Anonymous
11/06/2013 16:42
Subject: Go to law school?
I generally agree with all the PPs. I have been in law for over 20 years and have never really enjoyed it. I view it as a means to support my family and live a semi comfortable life. I know that probably sounds shallow but in 10 years I want to quit after the kids have finished college and be a private investigator, which I think I would enjoy much more than law. I am hoping DH and I will have enough money to live on and the PI work will be fun money by then and not essential income. DON'T DO IT. Chances of living comfortably today are much less than they were when I started out.
Anonymous
11/06/2013 16:38
Subject: Go to law school?
Anonymous wrote: Sometimes getting what you worked for, and wished for, is the worst.
My defense is that no one told me what it would be like. Well now we've got the internet. And DCUM, and they are telling you what it's like.
This is SO true! I wish I had someone tell me how much law school/BigLaw was going to suck and how terrible of a fit it was for me. I went to a top school, practiced BigLaw in DC, and then left after a few years. I was good at it and made a lot of money, but I was SO unhappy. Please, please try it out as a legal assistant first, and think REALLY hard about what kind of lawyer you want to be and where.
Anonymous
11/06/2013 16:30
Subject: Go to law school?
I wonder why no one ever posts "should I go to med school" threads?
you do know there are avenues for non-trad people to become docs....and becoming a doc is no where near 'elite school' dependent.
you can do your post-bac pre-med requirements in a structured program like gtown's or an unstructured one like UMD....then take MCAT, go to even a 'low' ranked allopathic or D.O school...and do well there to get into a great residency.
you do know there are avenues for non-trad people to become docs....and becoming a doc is no where near 'elite school' dependent.
you can do your post-bac pre-med requirements in a structured program like gtown's or an unstructured one like UMD....then take MCAT, go to even a 'low' ranked allopathic or D.O school...and do well there to get into a great residency.
Anonymous
11/06/2013 16:30
Subject: Re:Go to law school?
Anonymous wrote:A firm is going to just throw my resume in the garbage because I didn't go to the right school, even though I have actual experience in the area they practice in?
YES. Your HR experience is not going to be the same sort of asset as, say, an advanced science degree would be for an aspiring patent attorney or Wall Street experience for an aspiring securities attorney. Please listen to the folks on here -- it is extremely difficult for a graduate of a lower-tier law school to get any job, much less one at a firm. In this market, even graduates of top schools cannot find jobs, and experienced attorneys are having difficulty moving into new jobs, even with on-point experience.
Yeah, your experience in HR isn't going to count for crap if you don't graduate from a top law school. Prior non-legal experience is only relevant for a limited set of legal fields--a science background is going to be incredibly helpful if you want to be a patent lawyer. Experience in HR means diddly. If you can't get into a top-tier school, don't bother going. The job market is terrible and I don't see it turning around in the next three years. We are seeing a major structural correction to the field--there were too many law schools graduating too many students who couldn't pass the bar or couldn't get jobs. Not a good time to be getting into the field.
Anonymous
11/06/2013 16:26
Subject: Go to law school?
OP and EVERYONE ELSE WHO IS INTERESTED IN LAW....IT'S NOT WORTH IT.
Here is a simple tool if you should go to law school or not:
Under 30: Y, H, S, CCN
Over 30: YHS
going to any other school is a waste of time and money.
Furthermore, the happiest people I know that even went to those schools DO NOT practice law or only practiced for 1-4 years before leaving the law for something totally different.
Even going to H or S, without money, not sure if it is worth it if you are over 30.
Here is a simple tool if you should go to law school or not:
Under 30: Y, H, S, CCN
Over 30: YHS
going to any other school is a waste of time and money.
Furthermore, the happiest people I know that even went to those schools DO NOT practice law or only practiced for 1-4 years before leaving the law for something totally different.
Even going to H or S, without money, not sure if it is worth it if you are over 30.
Anonymous
11/06/2013 16:20
Subject: Go to law school?
Except for Seyfarth, the firms OP named are complete toilets. They probably would hire her.
Anonymous
11/06/2013 15:23
Subject: Re:Go to law school?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:A firm is going to just throw my resume in the garbage because I didn't go to the right school, even though I have actual experience in the area they practice in?
YES. Your HR experience is not going to be the same sort of asset as, say, an advanced science degree would be for an aspiring patent attorney or Wall Street experience for an aspiring securities attorney. Please listen to the folks on here -- it is extremely difficult for a graduate of a lower-tier law school to get any job, much less one at a firm. In this market, even graduates of top schools cannot find jobs, and experienced attorneys are having difficulty moving into new jobs, even with on-point experience.
I wholeheartedly agree with PPs that you should work as a paralegal before considering law school. After you have done several major document reviews, witnessed the personalities involved, and viewed the work first hand, then you can decide whether you really want to be an attorney, or whether you are simply feeling stuck in your current job and practicing law sounds like a good solution.
I'm the PP who suggested finding work as a paralegal in an employment law practice group. I was also a Big Law recruiter when times were good and candidates hard to come by, and yes, we would have thrown your resume in the trash. We used a "grade book" to determine which class rank was acceptable from which top tier schools. The only exceptions were 1. patent attorneys with Ph.D's, someone with highly specialized experience and or government experience and partners with large books of business.
There are a lot of practicing attorneys, giving you great advice and you are refusing to listen. Good luck with law school.
All the paralegal jobs are being taken by the lawyers who went to lower-tier schools...
Anonymous
11/06/2013 14:45
Subject: Go to law school?
It's all going to work for the OP because @37 and no history of excellence of any sort, she is going to beat all adds.
Anonymous
11/06/2013 14:09
Subject: Re:Go to law school?
Anonymous wrote:A firm is going to just throw my resume in the garbage because I didn't go to the right school, even though I have actual experience in the area they practice in?
YES. Your HR experience is not going to be the same sort of asset as, say, an advanced science degree would be for an aspiring patent attorney or Wall Street experience for an aspiring securities attorney. Please listen to the folks on here -- it is extremely difficult for a graduate of a lower-tier law school to get any job, much less one at a firm. In this market, even graduates of top schools cannot find jobs, and experienced attorneys are having difficulty moving into new jobs, even with on-point experience.
I wholeheartedly agree with PPs that you should work as a paralegal before considering law school. After you have done several major document reviews, witnessed the personalities involved, and viewed the work first hand, then you can decide whether you really want to be an attorney, or whether you are simply feeling stuck in your current job and practicing law sounds like a good solution.
I'm the PP who suggested finding work as a paralegal in an employment law practice group. I was also a Big Law recruiter when times were good and candidates hard to come by, and yes, we would have thrown your resume in the trash. We used a "grade book" to determine which class rank was acceptable from which top tier schools. The only exceptions were 1. patent attorneys with Ph.D's, someone with highly specialized experience and or government experience and partners with large books of business.
There are a lot of practicing attorneys, giving you great advice and you are refusing to listen. Good luck with law school.
Anonymous
11/06/2013 14:00
Subject: Re:Go to law school?
Anonymous wrote:the market is tough, but you don't have to be #1 at other schools not mentioned (say, MD law or George Mason Law or Richmond, just to list a few regional schools) to get a job making BigLaw market. top 20% and a clerkship might do it. Maybe not a Skadden or Cravath, but a McGuire Woods/Holland & Knight type BigLaw job.
LOL. 2002 called, and it wants this post back. top 20% at a toilet may have gotten you somewhere years ago, but not now.
when i started out in 2006 (and this is before things started to crumble), i worked at a toilet insurance defense firm for a few months before (thank god) transitioning to another practice area). there were TWO associates in the office who were recent georgetown grads. IIRC, one guy was top third and on a secondary journal....and working in shitlaw for $25 per billed hour (yes, not per hour worked, hour billed). the doc review rooms are full of bottom of the class georgetown grads and median grads from no-name schools. top 20% even at a decent regional school isn't getting you jack shit but $45k doing workers comp or personal injury. (i know you said top 20% and a clerkship, but top 20% from a TTT isn't getting you a clerkship that will do you any good.)
Anonymous
11/06/2013 13:50
Subject: Go to law school?
OP do you plan to have children? Because you might feel differently about pursuing more ambitious career path once you are, say, 40, with a small kid or two.
Anonymous
11/06/2013 13:48
Subject: Re:Go to law school?
yeah, the problem is getting the first job. I was bottom 50% from a lower "first tier" school (e.g., MD, Mason), but through an LL.M., luck and connections, was able to spend about 10 mostly ok years in BigLaw. I was never cut out for BigLaw, but it paid the bills for a decade, and now that I'm in my 40s the BigLaw experience still pays huge dividends on my resume.
Anonymous
11/06/2013 13:35
Subject: Go to law school?
I'm a Harvard Law grad married to another one. Both of us tell anyone who asks not to do it. The PPs have it exactly right. Even if your grades and LSAT were spectacular, there are too many lawyers and this market won't turn around in time for your graduation.
It was my dream, also, and I worked like a dog to make it happen.
It's a tough life, billing every 6 minutes, sitting all day, dealing with argumentative people all the time. I used to sit and look outside my window (in a skyscraper in LA) and wish I could open it. ugh. Sometimes getting what you worked for, and wished for, is the worst.
My defense is that no one told me what it would be like. Well now we've got the internet. And DCUM, and they are telling you what it's like.
It was my dream, also, and I worked like a dog to make it happen.
It's a tough life, billing every 6 minutes, sitting all day, dealing with argumentative people all the time. I used to sit and look outside my window (in a skyscraper in LA) and wish I could open it. ugh. Sometimes getting what you worked for, and wished for, is the worst.
My defense is that no one told me what it would be like. Well now we've got the internet. And DCUM, and they are telling you what it's like.