Anonymous
10/11/2013 17:35
Subject: Re:leaving someone suicidal
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Are you actually saying that someone who contemplates suicide and reaches out for help, but then changes his or her mind and does not do it is "abusive"?
That is a remarkable proposition.
No, but I'm not surprised you would take it that way, given your other comments.
Here is what was stated: For those that follow up on their threats, that's unfortunate to use your own wording. For those that don't, that's abuse
How should I interpret that? For those that kill themselves: Unfortunate
For those that don't: That's abuse.
Apparently I cannot read. Help me.
I mistyped. Where you and I aren't connecting is that you assume every threat, every word about suicide coming from someone's mouth is from a true sense of pain. When that's the case, I think everyone agrees with you that it's awful. But that's not the case, and you're naive if you think every time someone threatens suicide it's an honest threat. There are many times that it's used as a tool to manipulate, and that's what people are saying. For many people, they are left wondering if it's a credible threat or not, and they are manipulated into changing their behavior or staying with someone out of fear, when in reality that person was never going to commit suicide, they just knew the threat would be enough to get what they want.
Really? Your proposition is that lots of people not at all suicidal threaten suicide in order to get someone to stay with them?
Seems to me if the goal is one of blackmail, there are many more effective ways to go about it. Threaten to expose a secret (many are told in intimate relationships).
Pretending to be suicidal. I've never heard of that one before, let alone the idea that it is employed by many. And what is your evidence that people who are not experiencing suicidal ideation threaten it to get what they want, other than that some of them remain alive??
Which is why it is obvious you don't work in the domestic violence field. Open your mind up perhaps and realize yours is not the only position or opinion that are valid, and that your facts are one of many to be true.
You'll have to make allowances for me. No I don't work in the domestic violence field. I am not a chef, either. And, while I have been to the dark place many times, it has never occurred to me to "pretend" suicide. I cannot get my mind around the concept. If I wanted to manipulate some, or get revenge on someone, I could think of a variety of things I might do. "Playing" suicide is not one of them.
And, while I am not directing this at you specifically, the amount of disdain, contempt and pure hatred expressed on this thread towards those who were in so much pain that they killed themselves is really shocking to me. If I feel suicidal again, I guess I won't talk to anyone about it. Lest they think I am trying to threaten them or manipulate them or otherwise be a nasty human being with no love for anyone but myself. I certainly wouldn't want to have to deal with those feelings in addition to everything else.
This has been a real education.
The thing that's getting you is that no one is actually arguing against your point. Seriously, they're not. No one is saying people who feel like they could commit suicide shouldn't be helped, and that they are indeed in a great deal of pain. But YOU refuse to see that there is another side. YOU refuse to acknowledge any other universe but the one you have lived in. No one has disdain for suicidal people, but they certainly have anger and resentment for the literal and figurative mess they have to clean up. And while I'm very glad that it has never occurred to you that someone would use this as a manipulative tactic, is does indeed happen.
So yes, you're not a chef, don't post about knowing what goes on in a restaurant's kitchen. It's refreshing that you think idle and manipulative threats of suicide are not a classic battering tactic with the absolute intent of manipulation and control. You can be as incredulous as you want about that; it doesn't keep that reality from being true.
I'm sorry that you've been in a situation where you've felt suicidal. Nothing on this thread is making light of that. But you need to understand that for every person that is suicidal, there is potential collateral damage, and you've heard about it here. Listen to it and learn from it. People who become collateral damage suffer too. Maybe in your pain you never realized that, but their pain matters too. (Yes, I know of what I speak. I've healed. I hope you will too.)
This is exactly where OP's friend is. Is it a real threat or just a way to keep her there? What should anger you more than people pointing out this tactic is that people use a dire situation that you found yourself in as a tool to manipulate someone else.
I hope this has been an education for you.
Anonymous
10/11/2013 17:03
Subject: Re:leaving someone suicidal
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Are you actually saying that someone who contemplates suicide and reaches out for help, but then changes his or her mind and does not do it is "abusive"?
That is a remarkable proposition.
No, but I'm not surprised you would take it that way, given your other comments.
Here is what was stated: For those that follow up on their threats, that's unfortunate to use your own wording. For those that don't, that's abuse
How should I interpret that? For those that kill themselves: Unfortunate
For those that don't: That's abuse.
Apparently I cannot read. Help me.
I mistyped. Where you and I aren't connecting is that you assume every threat, every word about suicide coming from someone's mouth is from a true sense of pain. When that's the case, I think everyone agrees with you that it's awful. But that's not the case, and you're naive if you think every time someone threatens suicide it's an honest threat. There are many times that it's used as a tool to manipulate, and that's what people are saying. For many people, they are left wondering if it's a credible threat or not, and they are manipulated into changing their behavior or staying with someone out of fear, when in reality that person was never going to commit suicide, they just knew the threat would be enough to get what they want.
Really? Your proposition is that lots of people not at all suicidal threaten suicide in order to get someone to stay with them?
Seems to me if the goal is one of blackmail, there are many more effective ways to go about it. Threaten to expose a secret (many are told in intimate relationships).
Pretending to be suicidal. I've never heard of that one before, let alone the idea that it is employed by many. And what is your evidence that people who are not experiencing suicidal ideation threaten it to get what they want, other than that some of them remain alive??
Which is why it is obvious you don't work in the domestic violence field. Open your mind up perhaps and realize yours is not the only position or opinion that are valid, and that your facts are one of many to be true.
You'll have to make allowances for me. No I don't work in the domestic violence field. I am not a chef, either. And, while I have been to the dark place many times, it has never occurred to me to "pretend" suicide. I cannot get my mind around the concept. If I wanted to manipulate some, or get revenge on someone, I could think of a variety of things I might do. "Playing" suicide is not one of them.
And, while I am not directing this at you specifically, the amount of disdain, contempt and pure hatred expressed on this thread towards those who were in so much pain that they killed themselves is really shocking to me. If I feel suicidal again, I guess I won't talk to anyone about it. Lest they think I am trying to threaten them or manipulate them or otherwise be a nasty human being with no love for anyone but myself. I certainly wouldn't want to have to deal with those feelings in addition to everything else.
This has been a real education.
Anonymous
10/11/2013 16:26
Subject: Re:leaving someone suicidal
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You are disgusting. If you knew anything about what happens when a parent commits suicide, you would know that what is most damaging to the child is living without the parent, and knowing that the parent committed suicide. This increases the chances of the child committing suicide, as they feel as though their parent has sort of made it "acceptable". Yet, when you advocate that suicidal people who cry for help are making "threats" and are "selfish" and should be served with restraining orders, you take away the only thing left that can keep them alive, which is the support of others. They have exhausted every tool in their belt. And you want them to just suck it up. That is a recipe for suicide. Your ignorance, your callousness, your righteous judgment against people in unimaginable pain just contributes to more pain.
For whatever its worth, I actually agree with a fair amount of what you are saying (or trying to say), but your moral indignation, name calling, and poor word choice makes me extremely reluctant to wade in on your side of this.
Totally agree. If the above PP is the same ranting one from upthread, and the same person who calls a child encountering a dead parent "unfortunate," their credibility is shot.
You can call it whatever you want PP. A threat is just a threat - it's either followed through on or not. For those that follow up on their threats, that's unfortunate to use your own wording. For those that don't, that's abuse. The problem is that no one knows, do they? Not knowing what the outcome is doesn't make it NOT a threat. It's still a threat.
And yes, it's selfish to commit suicide. No one is advocating that suicidal people just suck it up. You're twisting words because you're so worked up. No one said, "I think it's best if they don't get help, that they wallow in their pain and just end it all." What some people have said is that it's really horribly traumatizing to find someone who has committed suicide or to be collateral damage in their pain. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
Since you seem to like to post articles, what about this one?
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2009-11-15/news/0911140551_1_suicide-water-fight-man
I take something very different from that article. I was touched by the couple the man assisted just before he killed himself, who questioned whether they should have talked to him instead of just thanking him. And the friend who wished he had been contacted.
Yes, watching someone fall to their death is unpleasant. Hating your life so much that you jump is much more so. This expectation that the suicidal should be very polite in cleaning up after themselves is astounding. There are only so many ways to do it. The "neatest" one would be pills, but it rarely works. I suppose the second "neatest" would be carbon monoxide poisoning. But the resentment people on this thread have voiced against those who leave a mess behind after killing themselves is just incredible.
How many people witnessed people from the World Trade Center jump to the deaths? Should they be angry that they had to see that? I'm sure it was traumatizing for them. Perhaps those in the World Trade Center should have forced themselves to withstand the unbearable heat in order to spare those below having to see them fall. View the trajectory.
a) red herring argument;
b) find a person who witnessed these people falling and ask them if it was "unpleasant."
I guess a red herring argument is one for which you do not have a response. Those that jumped from the World Trade Center did so because they were so hot, and so afraid, that jumping to their deaths seemed better than having to endure another moment of it. Those were suicides. Messy ones. But you don't call them names.
Those that jump to their deaths always do so because they are in so much pain that jumping off a bridge or shooting themselves seems like a better alternative. The pain may be emotional, but it's just as intense.
Sorry about the mess.
So people who commit suicide do so because they're hot? Really?
That's why it's a red herring.
You're not very bright are you?
You are not very good at reading comprehension nor analogies.
Those who jumped from the World Trade Center did so because the heat and the smoke were unbearable, as I said above. The heat and the smoke were so unbearable that to them, in that situation, jumping out of a window was preferable to remaining in the building. Those who jumped from the World Trade Center did so because they were in unbearable physical pain. Yet no one is criticizing them for doing it. I've never heard anyone complain that they were inconsiderate for leaving such a mess, or how traumatized people were who witnessed it (though they were very, very traumatized).
Other people commit suicide because their emotional pain is just as intense and unbearable as the physical pain was for those in the World Trade Center. And some people commit suicide because they are suffering from a terminal illness which is causing them so much pain that they welcome death as an alternative. Who are you people on DCUM to judge whether someone is suffering to an extent you can condone their suicide, despite the inconvenience it may cause to others? Is life some kind of suffering contest in which you all have decided to play judge and jury? The victims in the World Trade Center were suffering such that you can condone their suicides, but someone who feels that they are falling into an emotional hole and that they are the hole is a selfish and nasty manipulative person with no love for anyone but themselves?
I find it odd that I am having to explain this to you again. And that you are the one calling me stupid. Yeah, I meant that people commit suicide when they're hot. That's all I meant.
Anonymous
10/11/2013 16:13
Subject: leaving someone suicidal
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:His wife left him because he got angry with her and hit the daughter hard enough to make her mouth start bleeding...just to get back at his wife. He was cruel. Is being an abusive monster is a mental illness?
I didn't say mentally ill people can't also be assholes. This guy did not kill himself to piss off his wife. And if he did, that would itself be extremely compelling evidence he was mentally ill.
Actually, suicide is often used as a punishment by abusers. They get off on making the thought that their spouse will suffer and be judged harshly as a result of their suicide. Sylvia Plath was punishing her husband with her death.
Sylvia Plath died by putting her head into an oven. You think she was willing to endure that kind of pain in order to end her life to "punish" a man who didn't care about her? Interesting.
You know what, people? There is no law, moral, or ethic requiring you to do anything in the face of what all of you are calling suicide "threats". It is obvious that you do not care as to whether the person issuing the threats lives or dies. You simply find the accurately suicidal to be inconvenient manipulators who want to punish you. So just walk away and tell them to stay away from you. Let whatever happens to them happen. It need not be your problem. But let's not pretend that you are "caring" by calling 911, because you don't. You are trying to punish the person. It's precipitous to get a restraining order. If they continue to bother you, that is the time to consider that.
Just leave. Go. Stop complaining about how evil the suicidal person is. You have much better things to do.
If and when you get to that dark place, I hope people are just as understanding of you as you were of others.
Anonymous
10/11/2013 15:07
Subject: Re:leaving someone suicidal
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You are disgusting. If you knew anything about what happens when a parent commits suicide, you would know that what is most damaging to the child is living without the parent, and knowing that the parent committed suicide. This increases the chances of the child committing suicide, as they feel as though their parent has sort of made it "acceptable". Yet, when you advocate that suicidal people who cry for help are making "threats" and are "selfish" and should be served with restraining orders, you take away the only thing left that can keep them alive, which is the support of others. They have exhausted every tool in their belt. And you want them to just suck it up. That is a recipe for suicide. Your ignorance, your callousness, your righteous judgment against people in unimaginable pain just contributes to more pain.
For whatever its worth, I actually agree with a fair amount of what you are saying (or trying to say), but your moral indignation, name calling, and poor word choice makes me extremely reluctant to wade in on your side of this.
Totally agree. If the above PP is the same ranting one from upthread, and the same person who calls a child encountering a dead parent "unfortunate," their credibility is shot.
You can call it whatever you want PP. A threat is just a threat - it's either followed through on or not. For those that follow up on their threats, that's unfortunate to use your own wording. For those that don't, that's abuse. The problem is that no one knows, do they? Not knowing what the outcome is doesn't make it NOT a threat. It's still a threat.
And yes, it's selfish to commit suicide. No one is advocating that suicidal people just suck it up. You're twisting words because you're so worked up. No one said, "I think it's best if they don't get help, that they wallow in their pain and just end it all." What some people have said is that it's really horribly traumatizing to find someone who has committed suicide or to be collateral damage in their pain. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
Since you seem to like to post articles, what about this one?
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2009-11-15/news/0911140551_1_suicide-water-fight-man
I take something very different from that article. I was touched by the couple the man assisted just before he killed himself, who questioned whether they should have talked to him instead of just thanking him. And the friend who wished he had been contacted.
Yes, watching someone fall to their death is unpleasant. Hating your life so much that you jump is much more so. This expectation that the suicidal should be very polite in cleaning up after themselves is astounding. There are only so many ways to do it. The "neatest" one would be pills, but it rarely works. I suppose the second "neatest" would be carbon monoxide poisoning. But the resentment people on this thread have voiced against those who leave a mess behind after killing themselves is just incredible.
How many people witnessed people from the World Trade Center jump to the deaths? Should they be angry that they had to see that? I'm sure it was traumatizing for them. Perhaps those in the World Trade Center should have forced themselves to withstand the unbearable heat in order to spare those below having to see them fall. View the trajectory.
a) red herring argument;
b) find a person who witnessed these people falling and ask them if it was "unpleasant."
I guess a red herring argument is one for which you do not have a response. Those that jumped from the World Trade Center did so because they were so hot, and so afraid, that jumping to their deaths seemed better than having to endure another moment of it. Those were suicides. Messy ones. But you don't call them names.
Those that jump to their deaths always do so because they are in so much pain that jumping off a bridge or shooting themselves seems like a better alternative. The pain may be emotional, but it's just as intense.
Sorry about the mess.
So people who commit suicide do so because they're hot? Really?
That's why it's a red herring.
You're not very bright are you?
Anonymous
10/11/2013 15:05
Subject: Re:leaving someone suicidal
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Are you actually saying that someone who contemplates suicide and reaches out for help, but then changes his or her mind and does not do it is "abusive"?
That is a remarkable proposition.
No, but I'm not surprised you would take it that way, given your other comments.
Here is what was stated: For those that follow up on their threats, that's unfortunate to use your own wording. For those that don't, that's abuse
How should I interpret that? For those that kill themselves: Unfortunate
For those that don't: That's abuse.
Apparently I cannot read. Help me.
I mistyped. Where you and I aren't connecting is that you assume every threat, every word about suicide coming from someone's mouth is from a true sense of pain. When that's the case, I think everyone agrees with you that it's awful. But that's not the case, and you're naive if you think every time someone threatens suicide it's an honest threat. There are many times that it's used as a tool to manipulate, and that's what people are saying. For many people, they are left wondering if it's a credible threat or not, and they are manipulated into changing their behavior or staying with someone out of fear, when in reality that person was never going to commit suicide, they just knew the threat would be enough to get what they want.
Really? Your proposition is that lots of people not at all suicidal threaten suicide in order to get someone to stay with them?
Seems to me if the goal is one of blackmail, there are many more effective ways to go about it. Threaten to expose a secret (many are told in intimate relationships).
Pretending to be suicidal. I've never heard of that one before, let alone the idea that it is employed by many. And what is your evidence that people who are not experiencing suicidal ideation threaten it to get what they want, other than that some of them remain alive??
Which is why it is obvious you don't work in the domestic violence field. Open your mind up perhaps and realize yours is not the only position or opinion that are valid, and that your facts are one of many to be true.
Anonymous
10/11/2013 14:36
Subject: leaving someone suicidal
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:His wife left him because he got angry with her and hit the daughter hard enough to make her mouth start bleeding...just to get back at his wife. He was cruel. Is being an abusive monster is a mental illness?
I didn't say mentally ill people can't also be assholes. This guy did not kill himself to piss off his wife. And if he did, that would itself be extremely compelling evidence he was mentally ill.
Actually, suicide is often used as a punishment by abusers. They get off on making the thought that their spouse will suffer and be judged harshly as a result of their suicide. Sylvia Plath was punishing her husband with her death.
Anonymous
10/11/2013 14:18
Subject: leaving someone suicidal
OP here - wow, amazing how this site has been hijacked. The threats have been implicit, not explicit, so my friend cannot have her husband involuntarily committed. She's looked into it. He refuses to get treatment. Does she give him an ultimatum, and if he still refuses, does she leave? That's the question. The current situation is very unhealthy for her, her kids, and of course her husband, so something has to change.
Anonymous
10/11/2013 14:12
Subject: Re:leaving someone suicidal
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You are disgusting. If you knew anything about what happens when a parent commits suicide, you would know that what is most damaging to the child is living without the parent, and knowing that the parent committed suicide. This increases the chances of the child committing suicide, as they feel as though their parent has sort of made it "acceptable". Yet, when you advocate that suicidal people who cry for help are making "threats" and are "selfish" and should be served with restraining orders, you take away the only thing left that can keep them alive, which is the support of others. They have exhausted every tool in their belt. And you want them to just suck it up. That is a recipe for suicide. Your ignorance, your callousness, your righteous judgment against people in unimaginable pain just contributes to more pain.
For whatever its worth, I actually agree with a fair amount of what you are saying (or trying to say), but your moral indignation, name calling, and poor word choice makes me extremely reluctant to wade in on your side of this.
Totally agree. If the above PP is the same ranting one from upthread, and the same person who calls a child encountering a dead parent "unfortunate," their credibility is shot.
You can call it whatever you want PP. A threat is just a threat - it's either followed through on or not. For those that follow up on their threats, that's unfortunate to use your own wording. For those that don't, that's abuse. The problem is that no one knows, do they? Not knowing what the outcome is doesn't make it NOT a threat. It's still a threat.
And yes, it's selfish to commit suicide. No one is advocating that suicidal people just suck it up. You're twisting words because you're so worked up. No one said, "I think it's best if they don't get help, that they wallow in their pain and just end it all." What some people have said is that it's really horribly traumatizing to find someone who has committed suicide or to be collateral damage in their pain. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
Since you seem to like to post articles, what about this one?
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2009-11-15/news/0911140551_1_suicide-water-fight-man
I take something very different from that article. I was touched by the couple the man assisted just before he killed himself, who questioned whether they should have talked to him instead of just thanking him. And the friend who wished he had been contacted.
Yes, watching someone fall to their death is unpleasant. Hating your life so much that you jump is much more so. This expectation that the suicidal should be very polite in cleaning up after themselves is astounding. There are only so many ways to do it. The "neatest" one would be pills, but it rarely works. I suppose the second "neatest" would be carbon monoxide poisoning. But the resentment people on this thread have voiced against those who leave a mess behind after killing themselves is just incredible.
How many people witnessed people from the World Trade Center jump to the deaths? Should they be angry that they had to see that? I'm sure it was traumatizing for them. Perhaps those in the World Trade Center should have forced themselves to withstand the unbearable heat in order to spare those below having to see them fall. View the trajectory.
a) red herring argument;
b) find a person who witnessed these people falling and ask them if it was "unpleasant."
I guess a red herring argument is one for which you do not have a response. Those that jumped from the World Trade Center did so because they were so hot, and so afraid, that jumping to their deaths seemed better than having to endure another moment of it. Those were suicides. Messy ones. But you don't call them names.
Those that jump to their deaths always do so because they are in so much pain that jumping off a bridge or shooting themselves seems like a better alternative. The pain may be emotional, but it's just as intense.
Sorry about the mess.
Anonymous
10/11/2013 14:08
Subject: Re:leaving someone suicidal
"If you make me go to couples therapy I'll kill myself!" Yeah, I've heard that one a lot.
Anonymous
10/11/2013 13:59
Subject: leaving someone suicidal
Anonymous wrote:I think you are projecting yourself too much onto other people who make suicide threats. This may have been true for you, but it is not necessarily true for most that threaten suicide. Some are nice people caught in a bad place that they can not figure out how to get out of, and are crying for help. Some are nasty horrible people. It varies a great deal.
I think the poster was initially offended by a post (I forget if its on this thread or a related one) describing someone as being a horrible person who used suicide as a threat when that person did in fact go on to commit suicide. I also found that post offensive (though it sounds like the person who committed suicide was probably a rotten person for other reasons).
The problem is that "I am afraid I will kill myself if you leave me" can be either a threat or an honest assessment of the speaker's own psychiatric condition. People who assume that this statement is usually or often meant as a threat are typically doing one or both of two things: (1) they are empathizing with the pain that the person hearing the statement necessarily experiences; or (2) they are assuming that since people are responsible for their own actions, any time you say you might do something, you are morally cuplable for a threat because you have it within your control to not do that thing.
Re: #1, its totally reasonable and appropriate to feel extremely bad for the person put in that situation, but it does not follow that the suicidal person is a horrible person. Its far more likely that the person is suffering from an extreme illness and deserves compassion even at the exact moment the person is causing someone else pain.
Re: #2, this stems from the false belief that the person has control over his or her actions. It could be (and I believe often is) the case that the person is making that statement precisely because that person knows that he or she is unable to control her actions or exercise good judgment. More broadly, it stems from people's persistent belief (either subconscious or explicitly-recognized) that mental illness isn't real illness and that people suffering from depression should "snap out of it," "take control," "grow up," etc. But that's not true. Mental illness is a real and often serious condition with actual biological underpinnings, akin to any serious physical ailment. It is far more common for people to make legitimate suicidal statements than to use mental illness as an excuse to be evil. The people who believe otherwise tend to be the same people who believe that there are huge numbers of people living large on welfare checks while making no effort to find work, despite consistent and overwhelming research to the contrary.
And anyhow, even if a high percentage of suicidal statements were just threats, it still makes sense to assume they are serious until proven otherwise. The poster that initially triggered this flame war clearly thought that most people who claim to be suicidal are just manipulative assholes, which is both offensive and wrong.
Anonymous
10/11/2013 13:42
Subject: leaving someone suicidal
Anonymous wrote:I think you are projecting yourself too much onto other people who make suicide threats. This may have been true for you, but it is not necessarily true for most that threaten suicide. Some are nice people caught in a bad place that they can not figure out how to get out of, and are crying for help. Some are nasty horrible people. It varies a great deal.
And you know this how? On what basis are you making the distinction between a nice person in a very dark place and a nasty, horrible person?
Seems to me that there are many more effective ways to be nasty than threatening suicide.
Anonymous
10/11/2013 13:40
Subject: Re:leaving someone suicidal
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Are you actually saying that someone who contemplates suicide and reaches out for help, but then changes his or her mind and does not do it is "abusive"?
That is a remarkable proposition.
No, but I'm not surprised you would take it that way, given your other comments.
Here is what was stated: For those that follow up on their threats, that's unfortunate to use your own wording. For those that don't, that's abuse
How should I interpret that? For those that kill themselves: Unfortunate
For those that don't: That's abuse.
Apparently I cannot read. Help me.
I mistyped. Where you and I aren't connecting is that you assume every threat, every word about suicide coming from someone's mouth is from a true sense of pain. When that's the case, I think everyone agrees with you that it's awful. But that's not the case, and you're naive if you think every time someone threatens suicide it's an honest threat. There are many times that it's used as a tool to manipulate, and that's what people are saying. For many people, they are left wondering if it's a credible threat or not, and they are manipulated into changing their behavior or staying with someone out of fear, when in reality that person was never going to commit suicide, they just knew the threat would be enough to get what they want.
Really? Your proposition is that lots of people not at all suicidal threaten suicide in order to get someone to stay with them?
Seems to me if the goal is one of blackmail, there are many more effective ways to go about it. Threaten to expose a secret (many are told in intimate relationships).
Pretending to be suicidal. I've never heard of that one before, let alone the idea that it is employed by many. And what is your evidence that people who are not experiencing suicidal ideation threaten it to get what they want, other than that some of them remain alive??
Anonymous
10/11/2013 13:29
Subject: leaving someone suicidal
I think you are projecting yourself too much onto other people who make suicide threats. This may have been true for you, but it is not necessarily true for most that threaten suicide. Some are nice people caught in a bad place that they can not figure out how to get out of, and are crying for help. Some are nasty horrible people. It varies a great deal.
Anonymous
10/11/2013 13:28
Subject: Re:leaving someone suicidal
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
And I disagree that friends and loved ones are ill-equipped to deal with people that are in that very dark place. They know the person, they can connect with them. Understand them. Make them feel cared for. Most of the time, that's what the person needs the most. Professional help may also be necessary, but to walk away for a person experiencing acute suicidal ideation because you think you're being manipulated is the height of selfishness. What is manipulative about it? It's right there, out in the open. Is it attention-seeking? You bet. Someone is crying for attention.
I think you are projecting yourself too much onto other people who make suicide threats. This may have been true for you, but it is not necessarily true for most that threaten suicide. Some are nice people caught in a bad place that they can not figure out how to get out of, and are crying for help. Some are nasty horrible people. It varies a great deal.