Anonymous wrote:Keep living in your dream world. That's not true. Even when they do the first in-school screening panel it carries more weight with the staff on the panel if the they think the referral came from the teacher so that candidate is more likely to pass successfully through the following county committee.

The AAP website says the local in-school screening committee can decide not to forward a file to the central committee. Are there any stats available on how many files don't make it past each local in-school screening committee? At our school, the AART made it sound like the local committee sends every file on to the central committee. She said the local committee reviews the files and makes suggestions to the AART and classroom teacher if they think anything needs to be added to make it a stronger file. A parent asked if the local committee ever decides not to forward a file and the AART said no. The AAP website also says that if the local committee declines a file and the parent appeals, it automatically goes to the central screening committee. What would be the point of any local committee declining a file?

I think FCPS needs to serve kids with IQ in range of 130/132 and above with a program similar to what they would receive in other locales, even if here the numbers are large because of the high education level of families and more families constantly moving in. Otherwise teachers need to teach to too many levels within one class to be effective.

^^^
Forgot to mention that the score cutoff needs to be raised back to 140, where it was several years ago. That alone would create a much smaller pool of eligible kids.

Anonymous wrote:The whole point of my post is to suggest that FCPS do away, completely, with all referrals. As a result, immediately you will see less kids in AAP. That's all. Why not agree to this?? It seems like a no-brainer!

Absolutely agree. It may sound simplistic on the surface, but it would actually steamline admissions into AAP -- and greatly decrease the masses being admitted these days. IMO, AAP needs to return to educating only the kids who cannot learn in a GE classroom. They have strayed so far from this mission, it's really laughable.

Anonymous wrote:Teacher referrals aren't that rare. In my DD's 2nd grade two years ago the teacher referred 4 out of 20 kids.

How do you know that?

Anonymous wrote:The whole point of my post is to suggest that FCPS do away, completely, with all referrals. As a result, immediately you will see less kids in AAP. That's all. Why not agree to this?? It seems like a no-brainer!

Here is why this is a terrible idea.

FXAT score is a function of intelligence and many other factors (including prepping, how the kid is feeling, puppies, etc)

So, if you gave the same raw intelligence children the test, you would have a scattering of scores, probably a spread of 20+ points.

In other words, a kid with a raw intelligence of say 120 could score anywhere from 100 to 140 on the test.

So the cutoff is 132. My kid scored 124. But, something unusual happened: maybe the house across the street burned down, maybe there was a fox outside, and the dog was barking all night, maybe daddy had surgery.

Maybe on a typical day my kid would have scored 140....but she was worried about me as I was taken away by ambulance.

Alternatively, maybe the kid that scored 135 had parents that obtained a copy of the test, and the parents drilled the correct answers into the kid.

Maybe my kids's 124 was for a child with an IQ of 140....maybe the kid with a 135 had an IQ of 120.


Referrals allow for the school or county to evaluate someone who missed the cutoff, but you look at the scores and think these are not representative. I say that about my child. That alone only commits the county to evaluate my child, which means collecting a GBRS, commentary and work samples.

Teacher referrals aren't that rare. In my DD's 2nd grade two years ago the teacher referred 4 out of 20 kids.

Anonymous wrote:The whole point of my post is to suggest that FCPS do away, completely, with all referrals. As a result, immediately you will see less kids in AAP. That's all. Why not agree to this?? It seems like a no-brainer!

It runs against state gifted education regulations. FCPS does not have the referral requirement - the Commonwealth of Virginia has that in place.

Your battle is with Richmond, not with Gatehouse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole point of my post is to suggest that FCPS do away, completely, with all referrals. As a result, immediately you will see less kids in AAP. That's all. Why not agree to this?? It seems like a no-brainer!

I'd trust a teacher referral more than I'd trust many parents. All parents think their kids are brilliant, but even with today's outrageous AAP acceptance rates there are still many kids being turned away. Teachers can be objective and also see how your kids compare to others their age. There might be the occasional kid they miss, but I'm guessing that would be the exception. I think FCPS has to allow referrals fro parents in order to give the impression of fairness and avoid lawsuits.

The thing is parental referral does not get a kid into AAP. it allows the county to evaluate the child. Parental referrals may lead to more children requiring evaluations, but do not directly increase the number of kids in AAP.

Anonymous wrote:The whole point of my post is to suggest that FCPS do away, completely, with all referrals. As a result, immediately you will see less kids in AAP. That's all. Why not agree to this?? It seems like a no-brainer!

Before Naglieri [might have started in 2002] and the change in identification there were less in GT/AAP. The pool size is the main driver of the scope not the referrals. The bizarre fact of appeals in all eras is that a student who narrowly missed identification might not end up in GT/AAP since the parent might not appeal. AAP is more appropriate than academically gifted since the scope had broadened so far from it's original 140 iq cut-off.

Anonymous wrote:The whole point of my post is to suggest that FCPS do away, completely, with all referrals. As a result, immediately you will see less kids in AAP. That's all. Why not agree to this?? It seems like a no-brainer!

I'd trust a teacher referral more than I'd trust many parents. All parents think their kids are brilliant, but even with today's outrageous AAP acceptance rates there are still many kids being turned away. Teachers can be objective and also see how your kids compare to others their age. There might be the occasional kid they miss, but I'm guessing that would be the exception. I think FCPS has to allow referrals fro parents in order to give the impression of fairness and avoid lawsuits.

The whole point of my post is to suggest that FCPS do away, completely, with all referrals. As a result, immediately you will see less kids in AAP. That's all. Why not agree to this?? It seems like a no-brainer!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem no one mentions is that teacher referrals (for kids not in the pool) carry more weight than parent referrals and I know several parents who, instead of referring themselves, pressured their teachers to do the referring. Not kosher!

The only referrals allowed should be teacher referrals. Parents could still do additional WISC testing but then show those scores to the teacher and the teacher can decide whether a referral is necessary.

ANY referral -- be it a teacher referral, a parent referral, or even a self-referral -- is treated the same way. One does not have more "weight" than another. Any referral initiates the process of the local school putting together a screening file (by the AART).

More information on the state regulations can be found at:
http://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/gifted_ed/faq.shtml

Referral is a direct procedure that enters a student into a school division's identification process. Referral of a student requires the school division to administer all assessments and reach an eligibility decision as specified in the division's approved local plan for the
education the gifted. Referrals may be offered by parents, teachers, community members, administrators, peers, or the student him or herself.

Keep living in your dream world. That's not true. Even when they do the first in-school screening panel it carries more weight with the staff on the panel if the they think the referral came from the teacher so that candidate is more likely to pass successfully through the following county committee.

Do you have a reason for your quote or are you just making it up? I am not sure if the schools track these things, but teacher referrals are rare, and usually only when communications or cultural issues will prevent the parent from understanding the process.

I talked to the teachers about this. Teacher referral is extremely rare. If the teacher sees a child that they think belongs, they can refer. But, usually, they leave that the the parent. The teachers will typically not step in unless there is a cultural or language issue which would prevent the parents from referring.

The teachers opinion does carry a lot of weight, but it is captured in the GBRS and comments.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem no one mentions is that teacher referrals (for kids not in the pool) carry more weight than parent referrals and I know several parents who, instead of referring themselves, pressured their teachers to do the referring. Not kosher!

The only referrals allowed should be teacher referrals. Parents could still do additional WISC testing but then show those scores to the teacher and the teacher can decide whether a referral is necessary.

ANY referral -- be it a teacher referral, a parent referral, or even a self-referral -- is treated the same way. One does not have more "weight" than another. Any referral initiates the process of the local school putting together a screening file (by the AART).

More information on the state regulations can be found at:
http://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/gifted_ed/faq.shtml

Referral is a direct procedure that enters a student into a school division's identification process. Referral of a student requires the school division to administer all assessments and reach an eligibility decision as specified in the division's approved local plan for the
education the gifted. Referrals may be offered by parents, teachers, community members, administrators, peers, or the student him or herself.

Keep living in your dream world. That's not true. Even when they do the first in-school screening panel it carries more weight with the staff on the panel if the they think the referral came from the teacher so that candidate is more likely to pass successfully through the following county committee.

That has not been my experience in the several years that I have been involved in the process.