Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we just don't understand people who profess faith to a church whose rules they happily disregard and whose preaching is blatantly discriminatory.

I say this as a lesbian whose ILs are all observant Catholics. They have embraced me as part of their family, yet they go to a church that says my relationship with their daughter is an abomination.

How do you reconcile that?

I have a hard time with that, that this is said by people in the Catholic church. But the people are saying this not God. I don't believe God believes that. I think the people in that church are wrong... that loving another person is not a sin.

BTW the church also thinks being fat is a sin, and being vain, and being jealous, and premarital sex, and divorce, and .....

So they think I am an abomination too because I covet my neighbors <fill in the blank>.

That is the thing about the Catholic teaching - everybody is a sinner. Every single solitary one of us. So? We love each other anyway. We are not supposed to judge each other - it is between you and God, it is between me and God, it is nobody's business.

Thank you, this was helpful. I still find it odd that my family sits through sermons and recites creeds they don't believe. It just seems hypocritical and pointless.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always wonder why people who don't believe what the Catholic Church teaches want to continue to identify themselves as Catholics. I don't get why you don't go find a church whose authority to teach on matters of faith and moral you will respect.

Being a cafeteria Catholic, or a cafeteria anything for that matter, is illogical. It is.

I simply don't know a single Catholic who is NOT a cafeteria Catholic. Some believe in the death penalty. Some disagree with the Church's teachings on social justice issues. And some huge majority of American Catholic women (like 90%+) have used contraception at some point in their lives.

FWIW, I don't know a single religious person who is NOT a cafeteria religious person. I come from a Muslim background, and I know the same is true for every Muslim I know (from the super conservative to culturally Muslim, and the entire spectrum in between). Although Islam is structured differently, since there's no central leader or authority figure, so the very structure of the religion means there's going to be a lot of variation.

On the one hand I admire that many people of faith (of every different religion) make their own religion and very much employ the use of reason and moderation in their beliefs. On the other hand, a lot of it seems so distant from the orthodoxy, that it hardly seems like the same religion. I sometimes admire more orthodox people for doing less picking and choosing. Ultimately it's a paradox that just never sit well with me, and is a big reason I'm an atheist.

Anonymous wrote:I think we just don't understand people who profess faith to a church whose rules they happily disregard and whose preaching is blatantly discriminatory.

I say this as a lesbian whose ILs are all observant Catholics. They have embraced me as part of their family, yet they go to a church that says my relationship with their daughter is an abomination.

How do you reconcile that?

I have a hard time with that, that this is said by people in the Catholic church. But the people are saying this not God. I don't believe God believes that. I think the people in that church are wrong... that loving another person is not a sin.

BTW the church also thinks being fat is a sin, and being vain, and being jealous, and premarital sex, and divorce, and .....

So they think I am an abomination too because I covet my neighbors <fill in the blank>.

That is the thing about the Catholic teaching - everybody is a sinner. Every single solitary one of us. So? We love each other anyway. We are not supposed to judge each other - it is between you and God, it is between me and God, it is nobody's business.

Anonymous wrote:I think we just don't understand people who profess faith to a church whose rules they happily disregard and whose preaching is blatantly discriminatory.

I say this as a lesbian whose ILs are all observant Catholics. They have embraced me as part of their family, yet they go to a church that says my relationship with their daughter is an abomination.

How do you reconcile that?

You reconcile it by acknowledging people are complex -- strong in some ways, and flawed in others. How do they treat you? How do they treat their daughter? That matters much more, IMO, than what church they attend.

I think we just don't understand people who profess faith to a church whose rules they happily disregard and whose preaching is blatantly discriminatory.

I say this as a lesbian whose ILs are all observant Catholics. They have embraced me as part of their family, yet they go to a church that says my relationship with their daughter is an abomination.

How do you reconcile that?

takoma wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always wonder why people who don't believe what the Catholic Church teaches want to continue to identify themselves as Catholics. I don't get why you don't go find a church whose authority to teach on matters of faith and moral you will respect.

Being a cafeteria Catholic, or a cafeteria anything for that matter, is illogical. It is.

Because the Catholic Church is run by people and people are not always right.

My dad told me I had the decision to leave the church and believe what I want or to remain part of a community that my family has been a part of for centuries and stand strong in my beliefs.

I am Catholic and I don't believe the leaders are always right. It is the job of independent thinkers of the Catholic Church to keep it from becoming a cult. Blindly following something is not what God is asking of us.

Once again, an example that shows how misleading labels can be. I call myself an atheist, but I think PP #2 has more in common with me than with fellow Catholic, PP #1. I hope PP #2 does not take that as an insult.

Not an insult at all. I have lots in common with my Jewish, athiest, Muslium, Buddhist, etc friends. We all have similar goals and different ways of making our way.

I also have lots of friends (and a mom) like PP #1.

Yes. The Boys Scouts are run by people, they are not perfect and I disagree with stuff they do too. Lots of children and familes benefit from the Boy Scout organization so I don't think they are all bad.

So religion is a lot like the Boy Scouts - though I have never been a boy scout so I can only speak about what I read in the paper.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always wonder why people who don't believe what the Catholic Church teaches want to continue to identify themselves as Catholics. I don't get why you don't go find a church whose authority to teach on matters of faith and moral you will respect.

Being a cafeteria Catholic, or a cafeteria anything for that matter, is illogical. It is.

Because the Catholic Church is run by people and people are not always right.

My dad told me I had the decision to leave the church and believe what I want or to remain part of a community that my family has been a part of for centuries and stand strong in my beliefs.

I am Catholic and I don't believe the leaders are always right. It is the job of independent thinkers of the Catholic Church to keep it from becoming a cult. Blindly following something is not what God is asking of us.

Ah, so religion to you is more like Boy Scouts. That explains a lot.

And now commences the Catholic Church bashing.

I've posted previously. To me, there is a difference between true Catholic doctrine and fundamental tenets of the faith, which to me are for the most part very neatly packaged up in the Apostles Creed, and the evolving practices of the Church as determined by its very human governing bodies as headed by the Pope.

I would like to say that I am always 100% in line with the teachings of my Church, but I'm not. I, too, am human. At some point God will judge all of us as fallible people and hopefully in those areas where I differ from the Church's official line I will be forgiven or found not to have sinned.

Anonymous wrote:I always wonder why people who don't believe what the Catholic Church teaches want to continue to identify themselves as Catholics. I don't get why you don't go find a church whose authority to teach on matters of faith and moral you will respect.

Being a cafeteria Catholic, or a cafeteria anything for that matter, is illogical. It is.

Why should they be lemmings and not think for themselves? Perhaps they feel the Catholic Church provides the best, but not perfect, spiritual home for them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always wonder why people who don't believe what the Catholic Church teaches want to continue to identify themselves as Catholics. I don't get why you don't go find a church whose authority to teach on matters of faith and moral you will respect.

Being a cafeteria Catholic, or a cafeteria anything for that matter, is illogical. It is.

Because the Catholic Church is run by people and people are not always right.

My dad told me I had the decision to leave the church and believe what I want or to remain part of a community that my family has been a part of for centuries and stand strong in my beliefs.

I am Catholic and I don't believe the leaders are always right. It is the job of independent thinkers of the Catholic Church to keep it from becoming a cult. Blindly following something is not what God is asking of us.

Ah, so religion to you is more like Boy Scouts. That explains a lot.

Don't go to church, but I am baptized Episcopalian.

Anonymous wrote:I always wonder why people who don't believe what the Catholic Church teaches want to continue to identify themselves as Catholics. I don't get why you don't go find a church whose authority to teach on matters of faith and moral you will respect.

Being a cafeteria Catholic, or a cafeteria anything for that matter, is illogical. It is.

I simply don't know a single Catholic who is NOT a cafeteria Catholic. Some believe in the death penalty. Some disagree with the Church's teachings on social justice issues. And some huge majority of American Catholic women (like 90%+) have used contraception at some point in their lives.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always wonder why people who don't believe what the Catholic Church teaches want to continue to identify themselves as Catholics. I don't get why you don't go find a church whose authority to teach on matters of faith and moral you will respect.

Being a cafeteria Catholic, or a cafeteria anything for that matter, is illogical. It is.

Because the Catholic Church is run by people and people are not always right.

My dad told me I had the decision to leave the church and believe what I want or to remain part of a community that my family has been a part of for centuries and stand strong in my beliefs.

I am Catholic and I don't believe the leaders are always right. It is the job of independent thinkers of the Catholic Church to keep it from becoming a cult. Blindly following something is not what God is asking of us.

Once again, an example that shows how misleading labels can be. I call myself an atheist, but I think PP #2 has more in common with me than with fellow Catholic, PP #1. I hope PP #2 does not take that as an insult.

Anonymous wrote:I always wonder why people who don't believe what the Catholic Church teaches want to continue to identify themselves as Catholics. I don't get why you don't go find a church whose authority to teach on matters of faith and moral you will respect.

Being a cafeteria Catholic, or a cafeteria anything for that matter, is illogical. It is.

Because the Catholic Church is run by people and people are not always right.

My dad told me I had the decision to leave the church and believe what I want or to remain part of a community that my family has been a part of for centuries and stand strong in my beliefs.

I am Catholic and I don't believe the leaders are always right. It is the job of independent thinkers of the Catholic Church to keep it from becoming a cult. Blindly following something is not what God is asking of us.

I always wonder why people who don't believe what the Catholic Church teaches want to continue to identify themselves as Catholics. I don't get why you don't go find a church whose authority to teach on matters of faith and moral you will respect.

Being a cafeteria Catholic, or a cafeteria anything for that matter, is illogical. It is.