Forbes' ranking by academics (a real ranking): http://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/list/#page:1_sort:0_direction:asc_search:_filter:All%20state

Buzzfeed's mashup of the Forbes ranking and DateMySchool's hotness index for a ranking of smartest & sexiest colleges in the country (YMMV): http://www.buzzfeed.com/annanorth/the-sexiest-smartest-colleges-in-the-country

A helpful person on another thread posted this, which I'm adding here for the next time someone searches on "rankings":

Acceptance rate is not an especially meaningful indication of selectivity because it tells you more about how many applied than what it took to get in. The DOE publishes information as to the average SAT and ACT component scores of admitted students. You can search by lowest 25% or highest 25%. If you are looking for the “easiest” school to get into, you’d look at lowest 25% - which points to the lowest score that gives you a chance to get in.

http://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/datacenter/mastervariablelist.aspx?stepId=2

The website is not user friendly when it comes to comparing a broad range of schools, but play around enough and you’ll notice that HYP are NOT the most difficult schools to get into – schools like Cal Tech, Washington University and Harvey Mudd require higher scores. It would be nice to see an overall SAT ranking – the site linked does it by each STA component.

The website does allow you to sort by bottom 25% composite ACT score, which tells you which schools are the most difficult to squeeze into. Here is the top part of that list: (apologies if the format is messed up)


http://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/datacenter/Ranking.aspx?hfSelectedIds=10651|11|||

California Institute of Technology Pasadena CA
Harvey Mudd College Claremont CA
Yale University New Haven CT
University of Notre Dame Notre Dame IN
Massachusetts Institute of Technology Cambridge MA
Washington University in St Louis Saint Louis MO
Franklin W. Olin College of Engineering Needham MA
Princeton University Princeton NJ
Harvard University Cambridge MA
University of Chicago Chicago IL
Northwestern University Evanston IL
Pomona College Claremont CA
Columbia University in the City of New York New York NY
Vanderbilt University Nashville TN
Rice University Houston TX
Middlebury College Middlebury VT
Stanford University Stanford CA
Colgate University Hamilton NY
Vassar College Poughkeepsie NY
Duke University Durham NC
Haverford College Haverford PA
University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia PA
Swarthmore College Swarthmore PA
Emory University Atlanta GA
Wesleyan University Middletown CT
Georgetown University Washington DC
Tufts University Medford MA
Amherst College Amherst MA
Bowdoin College Brunswick ME
Dartmouth College Hanover NH
Williams College Williamstown MA
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor Ann Arbor MI
Carleton College Northfield MN
Johns Hopkins University Baltimore MD
Tulane University of Louisiana New Orleans LA
Boston College Chestnut Hill MA
Wellesley College Wellesley MA
Scripps College Claremont CA
University of Southern California Los Angeles CA
Claremont McKenna College Claremont CA
Brown University Providence RI
Reed College Portland OR
Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh PA
Davidson College Davidson NC
Jewish Theological Seminary of America New York NY
Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science and Art New York NY
Cornell University Ithaca NY
New York University New York NY
Washington and Lee University Lexington VA
Whitman College Walla Walla WA
University of Richmond University of Richmond VA
University of Virginia-Main Campus Charlottesville VA
College of William and Mary Williamsburg VA
University of Rochester Rochester NY
Barnard College New York NY
Hamilton College Clinton NY
Case Western Reserve University Cleveland OH
Kenyon College Gambier OH
Oberlin College Oberlin OH
Villanova University Villanova PA
Lehigh University Bethlehem PA
United States Air Force Academy USAFA CO
University of Miami Coral Gables FL
Northeastern University Boston MA
Brandeis University Waltham MA
Colby College Waterville ME
Grinnell College Grinnell IA
Macalester College Saint Paul MN
St Olaf College Northfield MN
Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology Terre Haute IN
Babson College Wellesley MA
Colorado School of Mines Golden CO
George Washington University Washington DC
Georgia Institute of Technology-Main Campus Atlanta GA
Wheaton College Wheaton IL
Occidental College Los Angeles CA
University of California-Berkeley Berkeley CA
Hendrix College Conway AR
Gettysburg College Gettysburg PA
Bucknell University Lewisburg PA
Dickinson College Carlisle PA
Willamette University Salem OR
Lewis & Clark College Portland OR
Denison University Granville OH
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Chapel Hill NC
SUNY at Geneseo Geneseo NY
Southern Methodist University Dallas TX
New College of Florida Sarasota FL
University of Wisconsin-Madison Madison WI
Rhodes College Memphis TN
Sewanee-The University of the South Sewanee TN
Trinity University San Antonio TX
Brigham Young University-Provo Provo UT
University of Puget Sound Tacoma WA
SUNY at Binghamton Vestal NY
Skidmore College Saratoga Springs NY
Polytechnic Institute of New York University Brooklyn NY
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Troy NY
Fordham University Bronx NY
Bryn Mawr College Bryn Mawr PA
Ohio State University-Main Campus Columbus OH
Lafayette College Easton PA
Clemson University Clemson SC
Furman University Greenville SC
Santa Clara University Santa Clara CA
University of San Diego San Diego CA
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Champaign IL
American University Washington DC
Trinity College Hartford CT
Boston University Boston MA
Centre College Danville KY
Drake University Des Moines IA
Emerson College Boston MA
Bentley University Waltham MA
St John's College Annapolis MD
Hampshire College Amherst MA
Stonehill College Easton MA
Loyola University Maryland Baltimore MD
University of Minnesota-Twin Cities Minneapolis MN
Gustavus Adolphus College Saint Peter MN
Kalamazoo College Kalamazoo MI
Truman State University Kirksville MO
Saint Louis University-Main Campus Saint Louis MO
St Louis College of Pharmacy Saint Louis MO
Missouri University of Science and Technology Rolla MO
University of Connecticut Storrs CT
United States Coast Guard Academy New London CT
University of Denver Denver CO
Florida State University Tallahassee FL
Illinois Wesleyan University Bloomington IL
Loyola University-Chicago Chicago IL
Butler University Indianapolis IN
University of Georgia Athens GA
Thomas Aquinas College Santa Paula CA
University of California-San Diego La Jolla CA
University of California-Los Angeles Los Angeles CA
California Polytechnic State University-San Luis Obispo San Luis Obispo CA
Grove City College Grove City PA
Pennsylvania State University-Main Campus University Park PA
University of Pittsburgh-Pittsburgh Campus Pittsburgh PA
Muhlenberg College Allentown PA
Rochester Institute of Technology Rochester NY
Stony Brook University Stony Brook NY
United States Military Academy West Point NY
Elon University Elon NC
The University of Texas at Austin Austin TX
The University of Texas at Dallas Richardson TX
Southwestern University Georgetown TX
Beloit College Beloit WI
Marquette University Milwaukee WI
Milwaukee School of Engineering Milwaukee WI
Purdue University-Main Campus West Lafayette IN
University of St Thomas Houston TX
Baylor University Waco TX
University of Dallas Irving TX
The University of Tennessee Knoxville TN
Austin College Sherman TX
South Dakota School of Mines and Technology Rapid City SD
Belmont University Nashville TN
Texas A & M University-College Station College Station TX
Texas Christian University Fort Worth TX
University of Vermont Burlington VT
Seattle University Seattle WA
University of Washington-Seattle Campus Seattle WA
Gonzaga University Spokane WA
University of Dayton Dayton OH
Cedarville University Cedarville OH
Hofstra University Hempstead NY
Elmira College Elmira NY
Albany College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences Albany NY
University of South Carolina-Columbia Columbia SC
Wofford College Spartanburg SC
Rhode Island School of Design Providence RI
Ohio Northern University Ada OH
Miami University-Oxford Oxford OH
The College of Wooster Wooster OH
Drexel University Philadelphia PA
University of Tulsa Tulsa OK
University of California-Santa Barbara Santa Barbara CA
Auburn University Auburn University AL
Chapman University Orange CA
Mills College Oakland CA
Loyola Marymount University Los Angeles CA
University of Colorado Boulder Boulder CO
Mercer University Macon GA
DePauw University Greencastle IN
Earlham College Richmond IN
Illinois Institute of Technology Chicago IL
University of Florida Gainesville FL
Rollins College Winter Park FL
University of Delaware Newark DE
University of Central Florida Orlando FL
Creighton University Omaha NE
The College of New Jersey Ewing NJ
Kettering University Flint MI
Hope College Holland MI
Transylvania University Lexington KY
University of Massachusetts Amherst Amherst MA
University of Maryland-Baltimore County Baltimore MD
St Mary's College of Maryland St. Mary's City MD
Coe College Cedar Rapids IA
Luther College Decorah IA
Indiana University-Bloomington Bloomington IN
The King’s College New York NY
New Saint Andrews College Moscow ID

Anonymous wrote:I'm skeptical of the idea that they track on-line interest only because it seems like it would suck up a lot of resources. Perhaps this is something they check if they are concerned someone is using them as a backup. Tracking their actual communications and visits makes more sense. But plenty of kids get into colleges they don;t visit because they can only afford to go once, to admits weekend.

The Propublica article said they, or at least the one school they quoted, checks electronic footprints. Examples included knowing whether you opened their email or whether you logged into their system. I doubt they can tell which kids are stalking the website every day. Maybe only a small number of colleges do this. But there does appear to be a payoff, which is more certainty that you will enroll if accepted, which ups their yield numbers.

I'm skeptical of the idea that they track on-line interest only because it seems like it would suck up a lot of resources. Perhaps this is something they check if they are concerned someone is using them as a backup. Tracking their actual communications and visits makes more sense. But plenty of kids get into colleges they don;t visit because they can only afford to go once, to admits weekend.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Six ways colleges can game their rankings numbers:

Www.propublica.org/article/the-admission-arms-race-six-ways-colleges-can-game-their-numbers

nice article. I have to commend Georgetown (not an alum) in staying away from common app. It's easy for MIT to do so given the strength, ranking, and world wide name recognition of the school while maintaining a sub 10% acceptance rate but for Georgetown to stay disciplined instead of playing the acceptance rate game is refreshing.

I hypothesize that if Gtown went to the common app, they could drive acceptance rates down by at-least 5 points in one admissions cycle.

I didn't realize that some colleges track your interest, and the likelihood you'll commit to them, by counting your visits to their website. So that's how DC got into the Ivy - DC was stalking them.

Anonymous wrote:Six ways colleges can game their rankings numbers:

Www.propublica.org/article/the-admission-arms-race-six-ways-colleges-can-game-their-numbers

nice article. I have to commend Georgetown (not an alum) in staying away from common app. It's easy for MIT to do so given the strength, ranking, and world wide name recognition of the school while maintaining a sub 10% acceptance rate but for Georgetown to stay disciplined instead of playing the acceptance rate game is refreshing.

I hypothesize that if Gtown went to the common app, they could drive acceptance rates down by at-least 5 points in one admissions cycle.

Six ways colleges can game their rankings numbers:

Www.propublica.org/article/the-admission-arms-race-six-ways-colleges-can-game-their-numbers

Anonymous wrote:The one thing that gets lost is that rankings don't measure is the teaching skill of the professor. Throughout my graduate and undergrad career, I went to a top 25, a school that was ranked around 100 and another that was at 150. If I had to rate my instructors, I'd say the best ones were at the 100 school followed closely by the 150, with the "elite" university as a very very distant third. The profs at the top tier college might have been good researchers or gotten published, but as lecturers they left a lot to be desired.

The quality of professors is more important in some subjects than others. I had good and bad professors at my top 50 UG. At my top 10 law school I had both the BEST teacher I’ve had at any level and the WORST teacher I’ve had at any level. In law school the quality of the teacher (professor) is really, really important. It’s always good to have an effective teacher, but in some subjects it is essential.

Rankings don't matter much. As long as you do well in your undergraduate years, get good grades and get a Masters (or JD,MD, etc.) from a well-known school, you will be fine.

Anonymous wrote:During the downturn my law firm saw an opportunity to "upgrade" their associate pool by laying off attorneys who had graduated from less "brand name" law schools and replacing them with Ivy-educated talent available in the market.

That's in respect to law school though and not UG.

If I knew anyone who could consistently crush 170+ on LSAT, I would tell them to go to the easiest grading school they know that still has some brand name recognition and major in a puff major while pulling a high GPA.

Someone in the t14 including ivy law schools will pick up a kid like that regardless of where they went to UG.

During the downturn my law firm saw an opportunity to "upgrade" their associate pool by laying off attorneys who had graduated from less "brand name" law schools and replacing them with Ivy-educated talent available in the market.

The one thing that gets lost is that rankings don't measure is the teaching skill of the professor. Throughout my graduate and undergrad career, I went to a top 25, a school that was ranked around 100 and another that was at 150. If I had to rate my instructors, I'd say the best ones were at the 100 school followed closely by the 150, with the "elite" university as a very very distant third. The profs at the top tier college might have been good researchers or gotten published, but as lecturers they left a lot to be desired.

Anonymous wrote:Most of the schools in that list are in the top of the heap of 3000+ colleges in the country. NYU, BC, Anerican, Pace, and of course U Chicago -- none of them are ivies, but I'd bet they're all in the top 100.

Also, given that each ivy takes 1000-2000 kids per class, and not all of these kids want to go into finance, it would be numerically impossible for all the financial firms on Wall Street to recruit just from ivies.

DH of good friend was managing director of huge IB - undergrad school was low end of top 100

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK -- keep pacifying yourself if you want to

Yea ok. Well I hope that your children are able to fulfill the path that you have chosen for them and they are happy doing it. I hope that your kid is one of the relatively low % of kids who gets into a "highly ranked" school. What some of us with more perspective are trying to say is that fit is more important than rank - that is if you care more about your child than their Wall Street employability.

GL

Not PP that made the comment you quoted and I do understand the importance of fit for sure, but at the same time as someone who has faced what recruiting is like the last 10-15 years through my siblings and myself and now younger siblings going through it...it is certainly true that more than a few career avenues get virtually shut-off for non-stem grads due to not attending a 'target' or 'semi-target'.

As much as admissions seems more egalitarian now than in the 70's or 80's, I also think many employers even outside of WS or Consulting have become bigger and bigger prestige whores compared to decades before.

Megan McArdle, Ron Unz, Charles Murray and even some writers on the other side of the political/philosophical spectrum have written about this phenomenon.

The PP here. Thank you for your response. Your point is well taken. Having gone through the college selection with 3 kids and looking at hundreds of resumes annually, I just personally believe that kids are more likely to be successful in schools with a better fit - no matter the rank. And you cannot assume that every kid (no matter how smart they are) is going to be successful everywhere. For example, UChicago is a great highly ranked school and its graduates do very well. My BIL graduated from there and he loved it. However I can honestly say that, after looking at it for 2 of my kids (who both attend top ranked schools), it would not be a good fit for those 2. Thus, I do not think they would do as well there as they are doing at their current colleges. Even among the Ivies the campuses and cultures are different. A kid who would fit in well at Columbia might not fit in so well at Dartmouth - I just think students need to focus on more than just rankings and perceived employability.

Fair enough. However I do think within the top 25 or top 10 LAC there are enough difference in fit in culture to pick a school that opens up those avenues (within the top 25 you have massive publics like cal or UCLA or you can go to somewhere microscopic like Williams).

When I made comments of 'ivy' i didn't mean literally the ivies plus stanford. I meant the top 20-25 schools or top 10 LAC that have some national recognition among employers that pretty much target grads of 'elite' schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK -- keep pacifying yourself if you want to

Yea ok. Well I hope that your children are able to fulfill the path that you have chosen for them and they are happy doing it. I hope that your kid is one of the relatively low % of kids who gets into a "highly ranked" school. What some of us with more perspective are trying to say is that fit is more important than rank - that is if you care more about your child than their Wall Street employability.

GL

Not PP that made the comment you quoted and I do understand the importance of fit for sure, but at the same time as someone who has faced what recruiting is like the last 10-15 years through my siblings and myself and now younger siblings going through it...it is certainly true that more than a few career avenues get virtually shut-off for non-stem grads due to not attending a 'target' or 'semi-target'.

As much as admissions seems more egalitarian now than in the 70's or 80's, I also think many employers even outside of WS or Consulting have become bigger and bigger prestige whores compared to decades before.

Megan McArdle, Ron Unz, Charles Murray and even some writers on the other side of the political/philosophical spectrum have written about this phenomenon.

The PP here. Thank you for your response. Your point is well taken. Having gone through the college selection with 3 kids and looking at hundreds of resumes annually, I just personally believe that kids are more likely to be successful in schools with a better fit - no matter the rank. And you cannot assume that every kid (no matter how smart they are) is going to be successful everywhere. For example, UChicago is a great highly ranked school and its graduates do very well. My BIL graduated from there and he loved it. However I can honestly say that, after looking at it for 2 of my kids (who both attend top ranked schools), it would not be a good fit for those 2. Thus, I do not think they would do as well there as they are doing at their current colleges. Even among the Ivies the campuses and cultures are different. A kid who would fit in well at Columbia might not fit in so well at Dartmouth - I just think students need to focus on more than just rankings and perceived employability.