Anonymous
Post 02/11/2013 09:13     Subject: Re:Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Th
Anonymous wrote:Nobody at YY intimidated by native speakers? Right. OP didn't lobby for "preferential treatment" in admissions (that was a different thread or two, last year), she asked about how native speakers are viewed in DC public language immersion programs. You're the one with the one-track mind.

In MoCo, families choose Mandarin immersion programs which include many native speakers to keep standards high and the cultural experience fairly authentic. In DC, Mandarin chooses most parents, people hell bent on staying in the city while avoiding scary IB schools. I'm a classic example - I'd have gone for Hebrew immersion just as easily if it kept me kid out of a truly awful IB school. YY parents love to claim that the Mandarin is what drew them - less than half the truth. Parents don't want precious YY slots going to native speakers, even off the wait list,they just want a spot.



It's a lottery. Everyone gets an equal chance for admission and no, there is nothing that looks at motivation or "only the most deserving people get in". Get over yourself.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2013 09:08     Subject: Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Them?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


Yes, you're wrong.

Posts like this always give me the sense that a lot of folks out there are jealous or have an inferiority complex.


No, she or he is most assuredly not wrong.

Posts like this always give me the sense that a lot of folks out there are in for a tremendous shock if they or their children ever land in a Chinese-speaking swathe of the earth. It's an intense culture, putting it mildly. If anybody's jealous or has an inferiority complex here it's those who are intimidated by native speakers. They're less intimidating when you know them than when you don't.



No one is intimidated by native speakers other than finding some native speakers who complain about dialect speakers not getting preferential treatment in admissions obnoxious. For the last time, charters are not allowed to preferential treatment. Even Bridges which has an excellent program for SN kids cannot give preferential admissions to SN kids who would really benefit from their program. Yet you never hear those parents complaining about the lottery like the Chinese dialect speakers do about YY. Give it a rest, you get the same exact chance as everyone else.



^This.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2013 09:07     Subject: Re:Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Th
Nobody at YY intimidated by native speakers? Right. OP didn't lobby for "preferential treatment" in admissions (that was a different thread or two, last year), she asked about how native speakers are viewed in DC public language immersion programs. You're the one with the one-track mind.

In MoCo, families choose Mandarin immersion programs which include many native speakers to keep standards high and the cultural experience fairly authentic. In DC, Mandarin chooses most parents, people hell bent on staying in the city while avoiding scary IB schools. I'm a classic example - I'd have gone for Hebrew immersion just as easily if it kept me kid out of a truly awful IB school. YY parents love to claim that the Mandarin is what drew them - less than half the truth. Parents don't want precious YY slots going to native speakers, even off the wait list,they just want a spot.







Anonymous
Post 02/11/2013 08:42     Subject: Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Them?
Anonymous wrote:


Yes, you're wrong.

Posts like this always give me the sense that a lot of folks out there are jealous or have an inferiority complex.


No, she or he is most assuredly not wrong.

Posts like this always give me the sense that a lot of folks out there are in for a tremendous shock if they or their children ever land in a Chinese-speaking swathe of the earth. It's an intense culture, putting it mildly. If anybody's jealous or has an inferiority complex here it's those who are intimidated by native speakers. They're less intimidating when you know them than when you don't.



No one is intimidated by native speakers other than finding some native speakers who complain about dialect speakers not getting preferential treatment in admissions obnoxious. For the last time, charters are not allowed to preferential treatment. Even Bridges which has an excellent program for SN kids cannot give preferential admissions to SN kids who would really benefit from their program. Yet you never hear those parents complaining about the lottery like the Chinese dialect speakers do about YY. Give it a rest, you get the same exact chance as everyone else.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2013 07:17     Subject: Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Them?


Yes, you're wrong.

Posts like this always give me the sense that a lot of folks out there are jealous or have an inferiority complex.


No, she or he is most assuredly not wrong.

Posts like this always give me the sense that a lot of folks out there are in for a tremendous shock if they or their children ever land in a Chinese-speaking swathe of the earth. It's an intense culture, putting it mildly. If anybody's jealous or has an inferiority complex here it's those who are intimidated by native speakers. They're less intimidating when you know them than when you don't.

Anonymous
Post 02/11/2013 07:06     Subject: Re:Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Th
You don't have to be Chinese to get a bad vibe from Yu Ying, whatever the school's strengths. Too many self-righteous parents and disruptive kids who struggle with basic skills for us. The pushy administration put us off early on.

With a solid IB school and a bilingual family willing to go the extra mile to ensure that your kid learns and maintains the language, can't see what you will miss.

We switched to PC Spanish immersion.

Having many native speakers involved in the school community helps us all stay engaged and grounded. Playdates in Spanish-speaking homes of classmates are a big plus. Our school isn't reticent on the subject of how many truly bilingual kids are in each grade.

Anonymous
Post 02/11/2013 06:11     Subject: Re:Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Th
Original Poster here, signing off. Thanks for an interesting discussion (please continue it if you're so inclined). Our decision not to put in for the YY lottery feels more right now than before we made it. Pretty clearly, we are too Chinese for YY, an expression I've heard before. But if you are an ethnic Chinese parent there, raising a fully bilingual child, you are more open-minded, patient and tolerant than the likes of us so more power to you.

My spouse was just giving me a hard time saying "Oh come on, chill out, we've got 3,000 years of language and culture to build on while what YY has is around four dozen 10 and 11 year-old graduates a year, almost all kids whose families are going to struggle to maintain the Chinese, even if they're not short on time and money to throw at the exercise. DCPC isn't even planning to continue the immersion through MS, like Canadian immersion schools do. We've got one of the best IB schools in the city, so let's simply enjoy it, at least from K, and head to a heritage language school in MD on weekends and enjoy that." Good spouse, good points.

I will check out the MoCo Mandarin immersion programs for a comparative and won't rule out ending up there, for MS at least. Before I go, complements to those of you at the Spanish and French immersion schools who fight for, and prize, your native speakers, hard as it is for your schools to draw them in under DC charter law. If YY's leadership had the good attitude of Tyler's principal, we would have tried to enroll. It's one thing to strive to implement the two-way immersion model, even if the politicians are not on your side, another to reject it out of hand in favor of the less effective one-way model (students learning the language only from teachers) as a matter of principle. The "We'll treat your Chinese-speaking kid like one who knows zero Chinese, and don't care if they come anyway" approach didn't do it for me. Good luck with language immersion, everyone.










Anonymous
Post 02/11/2013 00:19     Subject: Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Them?
http://www.greatschools.org/washington-dc/washington/56-Tyler-Elementary-School/?tab=reviews


http://www.greatschools.org/washington-dc/washington/618-Washington-Yu-Ying-PCS/?tab=reviews
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2013 00:18     Subject: Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Them?
[quote=Anonymous]Or, perhaps, someone could start another Chinese language charter school. YY is oversubscribed and focused on DCI. Why not band together and form another charter? [/quote]

In fact, some people have been talking about this. Last time I heard they were making plans. Can't wait to see.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2013 00:06     Subject: Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Them?
Reading these posts, it is obvious that to some extent, what Chinese families are looking for in a bilingual school is different from what non-Chinese families are. Parents with one Chinese parent and one Western parent are also have slightly different concerns.

Some of this came out in the discussion about the class trip -- people either saw it is an incredible opportunity to see the place the kids have studied for 5 years, or an annoying distraction that poorly replicates trips they've already taken.

I'm all for allowing kids to test into the school in Chinese, and all for a rigorous Chinese program that pushes the kids hard to excel.

And I do wonder about parents who would their kids to YY yet be ignorant about Chinese cultural and dialects. Why do they bother sending their kids to YY, and how on earth do they check the homework when the have no clue about the language?

But all that said -- I love Yu Ying.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2013 00:02     Subject: Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Them?
Funny, the only Tyler SI family I know, left after PS3 because they got into Tu Ying. They wanted a more ambitious, ademic environment for their very bright daughter. I understand she loves it, and they're very happy.

Different strokes.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2013 23:46     Subject: Re:Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Th
Anonymous wrote:OP, if you aren't set on living in DC, have you considered the MoCo ES Mandarin immersion programs at College Gardens and Potomac? In MoCo, common sense and language immersion admissions policies enjoy a closer relationship than in DC. The two programs do their best to balance native speakers and non-native speakers around 40/60, and provide substantial dialect transition support, with pullout groups for particular speakers. They allow kids who speak Chinese decently to test into upper grades when spots open. And they provide strong support to low-income non-Chinese kids, keeping numbers small enough to afford summer immersion camps for them, so no need for a non-immersion second track like YY's.

These schools would view your family as an asset - no name calling by parents fighting for spots so as to avoid awful IB schools. Overall, the kids speak somewhat better Mandarin than at YY; having many bilngual kids and parents involved pays off. Some complain that native speakers dominate these programs, but somebody's always complaining about somethin'. Visit at any rate, might buck you up.


Post this on the MoCo boards.
Yu Ying is an IB candidate school - International Baccalaureate
Ethinc Chinese kids are welcome to attend.
Lots of mixed families (Chinese spouse, American spouse) attend.
Parents tend toward the high-achiever types with a smattering of tiger moms.

If the above sound like what you are looking for, consider Yu Ying.

Anonymous
Post 02/10/2013 23:27     Subject: Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Them?
Anonymous wrote:At a recent Tyler Elementary open house (Capitol Hill), the principal made surprising statements about her Spanish immersion program that were music to my ears. Her remarks made me think of Yu Ying, how that school community's thinking about ethnic input to language immersion seem to be the polar opposite of Tyler's. I say this having persued most of the YY threads, and having attended open houses at the school. Am I wrong? I don't know much about how the leadership of DC's various PS language immersion programs approaches including bilingual children and parents in their school communities, but would be interesting in learning more. Which view is the norm, the Tyler view, the YY view, or something inbetween?

I've heard that Oyster has a separate lottery for Spanish speakers, and that LAMB gives some sort of preferential treatment to them in admissions. We skipped the YY lottery because nobody there seemed to think that having our ethnic Chinese dialect-speaking kid in the school would benefit the program. The opposite, the principal and PA parents were snippy when we asked about bilingual issues. Our Chinese-American immigrant friends who also mainly speak a dialect at home avoid YY, or try it and leave, feeling like token ethnics there. YY's administrators flat out said that, academically, they would treat our dialect-speaking kid like a student who speaks no Chinese. Chinese teachers tell us that there are only one or two bilingual kids per grade.

Here's what the Tyler principal said (drawing from my notes):

*Tyler's language immersion program suffers from having few bilingual Spanish-speaking students and Latino immigrant families involved, a problem we are determined to correct. We wish to celebrate the DC Latino immigrant experience in our program.

*We have started to reach out to the Latino population of nearby neighborhoods to attract more bilingual children to our lottery. And we are working with DCPS to set aside places for such children. We are also moving to identify native Spanish speakers on our wait list and to move them to the top. Our PTA parents support this approach.

*We need more bilingual children in our program to model the language and culture for the other children. We believe that this is an essential component of a successful ES language immersion experience. Our teachers are concerned that our Spanish immersion students speak too much English amongst themselves outside of class, and are too far removed from Latino culture. We want more Spanish-speaking English Language Learners at Tyler. Likewise, our PTA is determined to attract more ethnic Spanish-speaking parents.






Yes, you're wrong.

Posts like this always give me the sense that a lot of folks out there are jealous or have an inferiority complex.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2013 23:18     Subject: Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Them?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Until the Charter School Board changes its policy to allow for native speakers to test-in, the reality is that language immersion schools cannot give preference to native speakers, and given that these are PUBLIC schools -


Haven't we established that these schools are in fact giving preference to to native speakers off WAIT LISTS? At our school, wait list kids fill maybe one-quarter of slots by audit time in Oct. Potentially, that's a big group of native speakers. You want to end wait list shenanigans? Public language immersion schools often give preference to native speakers to advance their missions, includiong here in DC. Ever hear of Oyster Adams?







Oyster is a DCPS school, not a charter. They are allowed preferential admissions for native speakers, because they are a DCPS. Yu Ying is a charter. It's not allowed to break the law to make you happy. If you want preferential admissions for Mandarin speakers, then lobby to change the law.

It's amazing how often people have to be told this simple fact - over, and over, and over again.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2013 22:54     Subject: Re:Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Th
OP, if you aren't set on living in DC, have you considered the MoCo ES Mandarin immersion programs at College Gardens and Potomac? In MoCo, common sense and language immersion admissions policies enjoy a closer relationship than in DC. The two programs do their best to balance native speakers and non-native speakers around 40/60, and provide substantial dialect transition support, with pullout groups for particular speakers. They allow kids who speak Chinese decently to test into upper grades when spots open. And they provide strong support to low-income non-Chinese kids, keeping numbers small enough to afford summer immersion camps for them, so no need for a non-immersion second track like YY's.

These schools would view your family as an asset - no name calling by parents fighting for spots so as to avoid awful IB schools. Overall, the kids speak somewhat better Mandarin than at YY; having many bilngual kids and parents involved pays off. Some complain that native speakers dominate these programs, but somebody's always complaining about somethin'. Visit at any rate, might buck you up.