Anonymous
Post 01/23/2013 13:19     Subject: Is Basis really as hard as people think?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymou wrote:
But why are we even comparing BASIS to MoCo? It's apples and oranges.


I've Skype interviewed half a dozen BASIS Tuscon (original campus) applicants for my Ivy, which rarely has enough alum volunteers in AZ to interview all that state's applicants in person, since 2010. One witty kid, into physics and astronomy at the famous Univ. of AZ observatory, impressed me and was wait listed (and ultimately rejected). The rest were nothing special, and so were rejected outright. Around half the Blair math/sci magnet kids I interview are admitted. They tend to wow me with their eccentricity. No need for us to compare MoCo and BASIS students but colleges do it. BASIS has its strenghts, but passing comps doesn't neccessarily prepare a kid to display the intellectual curiosity, or quirkiness, elite colleges look for. Those rejected were dullards, which surprised me after all the hype on DCUM.


Given that the median household income in MoCo is about $90 thousand while in Tucson it's only about $30 thousand, this comparison strike me as particularly unfair, but I'll bite.

Does the Blair magnet program instill intellectual curiosity and quirkiness, or does it just select for it? Perhaps the Blair program is better at screening its applicants and keeping out the riffraff that wouldn't be worthy of your Ivy than it is at turning bright hardworking kids into the sort of applicant you seek.

Do you really think that the BASIS kids who were accepted to Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Brown, Penn, Stanford, MIT, etc. were dullards?
Anonymous
Post 01/23/2013 12:49     Subject: Is Basis really as hard as people think?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

But why are we even comparing BASIS to MoCo? It's apples and oranges.


I agree. Comparing a charter that basically takes everyone to test-in STEM magnets doesn't seem fair.


What's not fair is that there aren't any quality STEM test-in magnets in DC, although we now have the population to support one on a par with Bronx Science or TJ. Elite colleges don't want to hear our sob story about the obnoxious political climate holding back our best and brightest. They just want somebody's best and brightest. The BASIS boosters don't want to deal with the reality that TJ's average SAT scores are around 200 points higher than those of the highest-performing BASIS branch (Tuscon). Oh but, of course, BASIS DC will outscore Tuscon by a mile, even without those lauded Fairfax ES gifted programs feeding into it.


But many if not most of the kids who enter BASIS DC could not get into TJ. They would not be in the top 16% of the applicant pool for various rooms, e.g., terrible elementary school, little support at home, unable to afford TJ test prep, etc.

BASIS takes all comers. TJ only takes the best of the best. So, the average SAT at TJ is undoubtedliy better than the average SAT score at any BASIS school. Also, the average TJ kid will undoubtedly get into better schools than the average BASIS kid.

The real question is more like the following: If you have a child who is capable of testing into TJ, and you are willing to move to VA to make that happen, would the outcome for THAT child be significantly better by attending TJ rather than BASIS? Is it better to be an exceptional BASIS student or an above-average TJ student?

Of to put it another way, what makes TJ so great? Is it the math department and the science department, or is it the admissions department?
Anonymous
Post 01/23/2013 12:25     Subject: Is Basis really as hard as people think?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote: The horrendous 45-minute commute from elsewhere in MoCo (mainly Rockville) Takoma is taken care of by MCPS - they bus the magnet kids from all over the county. The BASIS commute would have been more of a hassle for us.


I've looked at this for our area since my daughter is in a HGC. The bus for Takoma Park MS picks up near our neighborhood at ~6:20 in the morning for a 8 a.m. start time. That is by any definition a horrendous commute.
Anonymous
Post 01/23/2013 12:24     Subject: Re:Is Basis really as hard as people think?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote: The horrendous 45-minute commute from elsewhere in MoCo (mainly Rockville) Takoma is taken care of by MCPS - they bus the magnet kids from all over the county. The BASIS commute would have been more of a hassle for us.


I've looked at this for our area since my daughter is in a HGC. The bus for Takoma Park MS picks up near our neighborhood at ~6:20 in the morning for a 8 a.m. start time. That is by any definition a horrendous commute.
Anonymous
Post 01/23/2013 10:38     Subject: Is Basis really as hard as people think?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

But why are we even comparing BASIS to MoCo? It's apples and oranges.


I agree. Comparing a charter that basically takes everyone to test-in STEM magnets doesn't seem fair.


What's not fair is that there aren't any quality STEM test-in magnets in DC, although we now have the population to support one on a par with Bronx Science or TJ. Elite colleges don't want to hear our sob story about the obnoxious political climate holding back our best and brightest. They just want somebody's best and brightest. The BASIS boosters don't want to deal with the reality that TJ's average SAT scores are around 200 points higher than those of the highest-performing BASIS branch (Tuscon). Oh but, of course, BASIS DC will outscore Tuscon by a mile, even without those lauded Fairfax ES gifted programs feeding into it.







Anonymous
Post 01/22/2013 22:58     Subject: Is Basis really as hard as people think?
Anonymous wrote:

But why are we even comparing BASIS to MoCo? It's apples and oranges.


I agree. Comparing a charter that basically takes everyone to test-in STEM magnets doesn't seem fair.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2013 22:10     Subject: Is Basis really as hard as people think?
Anonymou wrote:
But why are we even comparing BASIS to MoCo? It's apples and oranges.


I've Skype interviewed half a dozen BASIS Tuscon (original campus) applicants for my Ivy, which rarely has enough alum volunteers in AZ to interview all that state's applicants in person, since 2010. One witty kid, into physics and astronomy at the famous Univ. of AZ observatory, impressed me and was wait listed (and ultimately rejected). The rest were nothing special, and so were rejected outright. Around half the Blair math/sci magnet kids I interview are admitted. They tend to wow me with their eccentricity. No need for us to compare MoCo and BASIS students but colleges do it. BASIS has its strenghts, but passing comps doesn't neccessarily prepare a kid to display the intellectual curiosity, or quirkiness, elite colleges look for. Those rejected were dullards, which surprised me after all the hype on DCUM.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2013 18:14     Subject: Is Basis really as hard as people think?
BASIS graduates have been accepted at top Ivies and MIT as well.

Harvard University
Princeton University
Yale University
California Institute of Technology
Stanford University
University of Pennsylvania
University of Chicago
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Dartmouth College
Duke University
Northwestern University
Johns Hopkins University
Washington University, St. Louis
Cornell University
Brown University
and more... https://www.basisschools.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=79&Itemid=409

But why are we even comparing BASIS to MoCo? It's apples and oranges.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2013 17:56     Subject: Is Basis really as hard as people think?
Anonymous wrote:After a few years at BASIS it will become a disincentive to leave, as they will likely be ahead of the corresponding grade level of the school they would be leaving for. They'd be twiddling their thumbs while the teacher goes over material they learned already.


At the best NW privates? TJ? The Blair magnets? So the only other schools kids can head to are DC public schools? TJ gets half a dozen kids into each Ivy every year and a dozen to MIT. BASIS will be sending kids where, to STEM PhD programs? BASIS AZ schools don't even compete in INTEL. My nephew is on track to take no less than 11 AP exams at TJ, where he also plays 2 varsity sports and competes in INTEL for astronomy. Your over the top boosterism must have some sort of shelf life.






Anonymous
Post 01/22/2013 17:49     Subject: Re:Is Basis really as hard as people think?
Anonymous wrote:BASIS boosters talk about challenge, challenge, challenge as though that's all it's going to take to convince a critical mass of affluent families to stay through HS. But well-educated parents who can vote with their feet choose schools, and stay with them, for various reasons. They are often looking for facilities and social environments/peer groups comparable to those in the burbs and at privates (where colleagues and friends send their children). From these threads, I gather than BASIS only plans to graduate around 50 kids, with each class smaller than the one before. The unsual population pyramid alone is going to drive out families with kids passing comps, how many, nobody knows. It would be great if you could discuss potential deal breakers without getting accused of this and that. The like it or lump it mentality projected here isn't doing BASIS any favors.





Actually it is not like it or lump. Basis is committed to giving every kid the best shot at a rigorous curriculum which the school believes will help the student succeed in life. The schools offers numerous supports such as the Stars program, tutoring, peer tutoring, math labs, and reading labs. Also, every teacher makes themselves available for a few hours each week during teacher hours. Plus, the whole curriculum is geared to helping students succeed. Plus, the school has been very clear about the fact that the school offers a rigorous curriculum which requires hard work on the part of the student. So, no, it is not really like it or lump it at all.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2013 17:42     Subject: Is Basis really as hard as people think?
After a few years at BASIS it will become a disincentive to leave, as they will likely be ahead of the corresponding grade level of the school they would be leaving for. They'd be twiddling their thumbs while the teacher goes over material they learned already.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2013 17:32     Subject: Re:Is Basis really as hard as people think?
Anonymous wrote:BASIS boosters talk about challenge, challenge, challenge as though that's all it's going to take to convince a critical mass of affluent families to stay through HS. But well-educated parents who can vote with their feet choose schools, and stay with them, for various reasons. They are often looking for facilities and social environments/peer groups comparable to those in the burbs and at privates (where colleagues and friends send their children). From these threads, I gather than BASIS only plans to graduate around 50 kids, with each class smaller than the one before. The unsual population pyramid alone is going to drive out families with kids passing comps, how many, nobody knows. It would be great if you could discuss potential deal breakers without getting accused of this and that. The like it or lump it mentality projected here isn't doing BASIS any favors.


Well, at the risk of making controversial assumptions, let's suppose that

(1) high-SES kids have a significantly higher pass rate on the comps than low-SES kids due to family support, tutoring, etc.; and

(2) after a few years of the accelerated curriculum at BASIS, comp-passers will be less likely to leave on their own to pursue a less accelerated curriculum at a DCPS, MoCo, or VA public school or at a private.

Then, as the BASIS class size shrinks from 160 in fifth to 50 in 11th, the percentage of high-SES kids will increase dramatically.

Assumption (1) has a high probability of being correct. The unknown with BASIS is how often (2) will hold.

My suspicion is that it will take a lot to lure a high-performing multi-year BASIS comp-passer away, but who knows.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2013 17:29     Subject: Is Basis really as hard as people think?
Anonymous wrote:Parent of a 7th Grader: he stays at after-school (Late Bird) until 5:30 PM. Rarely has any homework past that.


That's not typical for most 7th graders who have at least 3 homeworks every day in addition to tests/quizzes twice or three times a week. Math alone takes about an hour.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2013 16:06     Subject: Re:Is Basis really as hard as people think?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote: 10:33 - magnets are of course the exception to the rule, as test-in or vetting does not apply to the majority of MoCo schools - and I'm not sure where you get "country wide" as they have residency requirements. But even there, I've been underwhelmed by magnets. Also, you must mean "county wide" as "country wide" is ineligible as they don't have residency - and in either case you have to follow the school - tradeoffs exist between either buying near the school (and paying a premium) or having a horrendous commute to get there. Great, if you're made of money - which most of us aren't.


Did did mean county wide of course, typo. The horrendous 45-minute commute from elsewhere in MoCo (mainly Rockville) Takoma is taken care of by MCPS - they bus the magnet kids from all over the county. The BASIS commute would have been more of a hassle for us.

If you fail to break into that underwhelming Takoma Park MS magnet, which routinely sends kids on to Blair HS to win INTEL prizes, you still get honors classes in most subjects there, math as advanced as at BASIS (6th grade algebra) and facilities nearly as nice as an established independent. These include a greenhouse, student run radio station, giant playing fields and courts, stage, orchestra, band. I work for a non-profit so made of money, maybe not.

Am I to conclude that DC will never give us what our near neighbors routinely provide at the MS level?


If I'm not mistaken, BASIS has some 5th graders taking Algebra, and offers math advanced beyond what the MoCo magnets do.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2013 14:51     Subject: Re:Is Basis really as hard as people think?
BASIS boosters talk about challenge, challenge, challenge as though that's all it's going to take to convince a critical mass of affluent families to stay through HS. But well-educated parents who can vote with their feet choose schools, and stay with them, for various reasons. They are often looking for facilities and social environments/peer groups comparable to those in the burbs and at privates (where colleagues and friends send their children). From these threads, I gather than BASIS only plans to graduate around 50 kids, with each class smaller than the one before. The unsual population pyramid alone is going to drive out families with kids passing comps, how many, nobody knows. It would be great if you could discuss potential deal breakers without getting accused of this and that. The like it or lump it mentality projected here isn't doing BASIS any favors.