Anonymous
01/16/2013 22:18
Subject: Re:We own in DC and VA, ok to go to school in DC?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow, OP has already admitted they don't live in the rental. You ar basically instructing them on how to cheat, the bottom line of your post is that simple. I guess I shouldn't be suprised, but it still bugs the crap out of me that someone will advertise ways to cheat the system even after someone has said they want to do the right thing. You suck PP. And karma, it isn't always instant, but it always gets ya. Wonder what someone is going to cheat you out of down the line....
OP does not live in the rental now. People move across state lines for schools all the time, e.g., DC to MoCo and VA.
I'm not advising OP to cheat. I'm advising OP to move to DC if the charter is that important. I'm also suggesting that once OP's child is enrolled, OP might be able to move back to VA and keep the spot at the charter, at the cost of paying non-resident tuition.
There is no cheating involved.
no, if you are 11:32 you are actually instructing OP how to cheat (something she expressly said she does not want to do). let's call things with their name. OP says that she owns a small, prekids 2bd home in DC, and that now she has 4 kids. she is obviously not thinking about moving back to the rented home, 6 people in 2bd. and you are not telling her to move back to DC with her family (like in renting or buying a suitable home for a family of 6, where they can move for good). she would not need to turn to DCUM for this kind of obvious advice. she does not want to move her family back to DC, otherwise there would be no issue and no post. it is right that people move across state lines all the time for schools, but they "really" move, like buying a home in Bethesda for MCPS for the entire family, not using the address of a place they do not live in. people who use fake addresses or temporary rooms subleased just to "establish residency" are cheaters. what you are suggesting is first, to use an address where nobody in her family resides, and second, if the child gets a spot, to sublet a room somewhere where one of the parent can stay (or better pretend to live) just to establish residency, and then go back happily to Virginia, after (presumably) having taken a spot away from a DC resident kid. you are instructing her on how to cheat, have at least the decency of admitting it. (just to be clear, I have nothing against OP, actually I appreciate that she is being honest)
We'll, PP, we just disagree.
If the charter is that important to OP, then OP should give serious thought to moving the family (or part of it) back into the 2br rental long enough to establish residency and secure a spot at the charter. Once the spot has been secured, assuming the charter won't kick OP's child out for moving out of DC, OP can move the family back to VA. However, OP or OP's spouse will have to continue paying DC income tax or OP will have to start paying non-resident tuition.
Note that either way OP would be paying for attending the charter over and above the property taxes that OP (or OP's tenant) is already paying .
What you call cheating I call exploiting a potential loophole in the charter law.
Quite frankly, I don't event think that OP should have to move into that 2br rental temporarily. Non-resident property owners serve an important role in the DC housing market. They contribute to the stability of home values while increasing the stock of housing available to renters. I think that non-resident property owners should be given the same access to DC charter schools as residents, provided they pay non-resident tuition, of course, since they do not pay resident income taxes.
you are nuts. we will be doing the lottery this year for pre-k. we own our home in DC and are resident of the city, we both pay income tax to DC in addition to property taxes, and we should be in line with OP, who chose to move her family to Virginia? I think the current rule is fair and wise, residents get access to public schools, non residents not only should pay tuition, but also should be admitted only if there are no DC residents in line for the same spots.
Anonymous
01/16/2013 22:07
Subject: We own in DC and VA, ok to go to school in DC?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What is "moral" and "right" to treat someone as a leech on DC schools and forbid them from attending when they are in fact contributing substantial financial resources to support said DC schools?
It's not so much about what's "moral" or "right", it's strictly about what the law says.
and the law says that if you are not a DC resident (meaning living in DC), your kid cannot go to DCPS or a DC charter, unless you pay out state tuition and get at the end of the line in case there is a wailist (and I am pretty sure the school OP wants to send her kid to has a waitlist). so, for a sought after DCPS school or charter, if you are not a DC resident, your kid cannot attend it. Op can simply apply to the DC school for her kid and make her family living situation known to DCPS or to the charter, and see what happens.
Someone who owns property in DC IS ALREADY PAYING for DCPS schools. So basically they are paying TWICE if they then also have to pay out-of-state tuition on top of that.
I'm not advocating for living outside of DC and going to school in DC (and in fact if I was going to live outside of DC, I'd just as soon go to one of the better school districts in the burbs), I'm just pointing out that there is a problem with the policy.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. even without considering that the rule is residency, and not whether you own property in DC, even by your standard they are not paying twice at all. OP said she owns a small 2bd home where she lived pre-kids. how much is she paying in taxes? maybe 3-4K a year? how much of that goes to DCPS and charters? she is renting the place (and I am sure the rent is several times the amount of the annual property taxes), is she coming every week to collect her renter's garbage or there is a publicly paid service that does it for her, paid by DC homeowners. what about police, firefighters, wat about light in the streets at night, what about the roads her renters are driving on to get to OP's home, she did not build them. is she coming tomorrow to put salt on the street and remove the snow for her renters? if each pupil in DCPS cost 9 or 10K a year, she is really not already paying at all.
Anonymous
01/16/2013 21:23
Subject: We own in DC and VA, ok to go to school in DC?
Presumably the OP is renting out the house in DC, yes? So just because they are writing the check for property taxes to the DC government, their tenants are the ones who are paying it, via their rent. I don't know why some posters are getting all bent out of shape about how THEY ARE PAYING TWICE! ONCE IN VIRGINIA AND ONCE IN DC! I mean, if their rental income wasn't exceeding, or at least meeting, their tax and mortgage obligations, it wouldn't make much sense to hold on to the property.
The whole argument is dumb.
The whole argument is dumb.
Anonymous
01/16/2013 20:11
Subject: We own in DC and VA, ok to go to school in DC?
Anonymous wrote:Jeez what's wrong with people. If you don't live in the damn house then you're not a resident, and if you don't get it then you need to go back to school. I hope all those who think is legit didn't pass their shaky morals onto the kids. I really feel sorry for their teachers.
Agreed. Mr. "In short" above apparently doesn't grasp that these residency laws are the standard ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. I can own properties in all 50 states; it doesn't mean I can send my kids anywhere I please. And this person has the balls to use the word "policy" as if they are smart enough to participate in adult conversation.
Anonymous
01/16/2013 20:04
Subject: We own in DC and VA, ok to go to school in DC?
Jeez what's wrong with people. If you don't live in the damn house then you're not a resident, and if you don't get it then you need to go back to school. I hope all those who think is legit didn't pass their shaky morals onto the kids. I really feel sorry for their teachers.
Anonymous
01/16/2013 19:35
Subject: We own in DC and VA, ok to go to school in DC?
Anonymous wrote:In short:
DCPS's residency policy denies and cheats taxpayers out of something they are paying for.
In short:
You are an entitled asshole. Go fuck yourself.
Anonymous
01/16/2013 19:21
Subject: We own in DC and VA, ok to go to school in DC?
In short:
DCPS's residency policy denies and cheats taxpayers out of something they are paying for.
DCPS's residency policy denies and cheats taxpayers out of something they are paying for.
Anonymous
01/16/2013 17:26
Subject: We own in DC and VA, ok to go to school in DC?
Anonymous wrote:
Someone who owns property in DC IS ALREADY PAYING for DCPS schools. So basically they are paying TWICE if they then also have to pay out-of-state tuition on top of that.
I'm not advocating for living outside of DC and going to school in DC (and in fact if I was going to live outside of DC, I'd just as soon go to one of the better school districts in the burbs), I'm just pointing out that there is a problem with the policy.
Paying property taxes in DC, or any other kind of tax for that matter, does not give you the right to attend DC schools! Why is this so hard for you to understand? RESIDENTS are entitled to attend, no matter how much money they make, no matter if they own property or pay income tax or sales tax. If you own property in DC but have elected to make your RESIDENCE in another state, you obviously feel that the benefits of RESIDING in that state outweigh the benefits of RESIDING in DC.
It is so hard to believe that money does not buy everything! I think this is why some people get so mad about the lotteries.
And I completely agree with you; if I had money for multiple properties, I would either buy in a great suburban school district, or pay tuition at a real private school.
Anonymous
01/16/2013 16:57
Subject: We own in DC and VA, ok to go to school in DC?
Some people don't realize how easy it is to change one's residency. Basically, get documentation that you are paying the water or electric bill, get a new driver's license in that jurisdiction, and bam, you're a resident. In our case, we've served on several extended expat assignments, maintaining a residency in the U.S. is something very important to us.
That said, the tricky part for someone from VA who wants to come to DC would be losing the VA residency. VA is infamous in government and military circles for collecting back taxes when someone leaves VA, goes somewhere else, then comes back to VA. They will say the intention was never to leave VA in the first place.
So, having some experience with this myself, I'll say: you can have a residency anywhere you want, but you can't have two. If you take up a new residency somewhere, you must give up your old residency and any benefits you had at the old one. "Benefits" include things such as voter registration, driver's license, in-state fishing license, and accepting local-resident property tax exemptions. Yes, people do get tripped up when they take benefits from two jurisdictions without paying taxes, ESPECIALLY when Virginia is involved.
That said, the tricky part for someone from VA who wants to come to DC would be losing the VA residency. VA is infamous in government and military circles for collecting back taxes when someone leaves VA, goes somewhere else, then comes back to VA. They will say the intention was never to leave VA in the first place.
So, having some experience with this myself, I'll say: you can have a residency anywhere you want, but you can't have two. If you take up a new residency somewhere, you must give up your old residency and any benefits you had at the old one. "Benefits" include things such as voter registration, driver's license, in-state fishing license, and accepting local-resident property tax exemptions. Yes, people do get tripped up when they take benefits from two jurisdictions without paying taxes, ESPECIALLY when Virginia is involved.
Anonymous
01/16/2013 15:58
Subject: We own in DC and VA, ok to go to school in DC?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What is "moral" and "right" to treat someone as a leech on DC schools and forbid them from attending when they are in fact contributing substantial financial resources to support said DC schools?
It's not so much about what's "moral" or "right", it's strictly about what the law says.
and the law says that if you are not a DC resident (meaning living in DC), your kid cannot go to DCPS or a DC charter, unless you pay out state tuition and get at the end of the line in case there is a wailist (and I am pretty sure the school OP wants to send her kid to has a waitlist). so, for a sought after DCPS school or charter, if you are not a DC resident, your kid cannot attend it. Op can simply apply to the DC school for her kid and make her family living situation known to DCPS or to the charter, and see what happens.
Someone who owns property in DC IS ALREADY PAYING for DCPS schools. So basically they are paying TWICE if they then also have to pay out-of-state tuition on top of that.
I'm not advocating for living outside of DC and going to school in DC (and in fact if I was going to live outside of DC, I'd just as soon go to one of the better school districts in the burbs), I'm just pointing out that there is a problem with the policy.
Anonymous
01/16/2013 15:08
Subject: We own in DC and VA, ok to go to school in DC?
To the poster advising OP to cheat, wow, move into DC temporarily, secure a spot, and then move out and pay out of state tuition. I think I get your twisted reasoning, but it would not work at my child's charter, YY. It has been tried and failed, unless the kid received a spot in the second grade and vacated the city during or after second. YY does not accept new students beyond seoncd grade, so if the kid is already in the school after second, I am sure they would accept the tuition. But, not before second grade.
I also doubt this would work for the other popular charters with waiting lists that admit students beyond upper grades. So, while your advise may be plausible, I don't think it is practicable for the most popular schools with long waitlists. Do you really think OP could get her kid into E.L. Haynes and then say, oops, we will pay the $10,000 tuition. Parents with children on the fourth grade waiting lists would have a field day at DC Council, E.L. Haynes, and the charter board.
I also doubt this would work for the other popular charters with waiting lists that admit students beyond upper grades. So, while your advise may be plausible, I don't think it is practicable for the most popular schools with long waitlists. Do you really think OP could get her kid into E.L. Haynes and then say, oops, we will pay the $10,000 tuition. Parents with children on the fourth grade waiting lists would have a field day at DC Council, E.L. Haynes, and the charter board.
Anonymous
01/16/2013 13:57
Subject: We own in DC and VA, ok to go to school in DC?
Meant to add, they just want to use their DC address to get their kid in, and they presumably are continuing to claim residence in VA to obtain VA services. The family who moved 1,000 miles has rescinded their rights to services and schools in their original home state.
Also, what charter school is worth a 1,000-mile move? There obviously were other reasons that they wanted to uproot their family and move here.
Also, what charter school is worth a 1,000-mile move? There obviously were other reasons that they wanted to uproot their family and move here.
Anonymous
01/16/2013 13:50
Subject: Re:We own in DC and VA, ok to go to school in DC?
Anonymous wrote:
No, PP, you're wrong. Exploiting a loophole does not entail the immorality that the word "cheating" implies.
OP has an obligation to act in the best interests of OP's child. OP thinks that a desirable charter school in DC might be the best fit for that child.
OP is a former DC resident and a long-time DC property owner. By virtue of owning that property, OP is in a position to re-establish DC residency and secure a spot in that charter. Once OP's child is attending the school, OP will have to decide whether to remain a DC resident and continue paying DC income taxes or return to VA and start paying non-resident tuition, assuming the charter allows OP to keep the spot.
I know of a family that moved over 1,000 miles into a very small apartment in DC to secure a spot for their child in a particular DC charter school. That family plans to buy a house in order to have more space. If they decide to move to VA for its larger houses and pay non-resident tuition to continue attending the charter -- assuming the charter allows them to keep the spot -- will they have engaged in some sort of immoral conduct? Of course not. They will have followed all of the rules under the DC charter law.
Why, then, is it cheating for OP to engage in essentially the same conduct?
As a former DC resident and a long-time DC property owner, OP's claim to a spot at a DC charter is at least a strong as that of a family with no ties to DC that moved 1,000 miles for that spot, and perhaps much stronger.
By the way, PP, let's keep my mother out of this discussion.
The difference is, the OP has no intention of moving and establishing residency in DC. They just want to use their DC address to get their kid in.
Anonymous
01/16/2013 13:41
Subject: Re:We own in DC and VA, ok to go to school in DC?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow, OP has already admitted they don't live in the rental. You ar basically instructing them on how to cheat, the bottom line of your post is that simple. I guess I shouldn't be suprised, but it still bugs the crap out of me that someone will advertise ways to cheat the system even after someone has said they want to do the right thing. You suck PP. And karma, it isn't always instant, but it always gets ya. Wonder what someone is going to cheat you out of down the line....
OP does not live in the rental now. People move across state lines for schools all the time, e.g., DC to MoCo and VA.
I'm not advising OP to cheat. I'm advising OP to move to DC if the charter is that important. I'm also suggesting that once OP's child is enrolled, OP might be able to move back to VA and keep the spot at the charter, at the cost of paying non-resident tuition.
There is no cheating involved.
no, if you are 11:32 you are actually instructing OP how to cheat (something she expressly said she does not want to do). let's call things with their name. OP says that she owns a small, prekids 2bd home in DC, and that now she has 4 kids. she is obviously not thinking about moving back to the rented home, 6 people in 2bd. and you are not telling her to move back to DC with her family (like in renting or buying a suitable home for a family of 6, where they can move for good). she would not need to turn to DCUM for this kind of obvious advice. she does not want to move her family back to DC, otherwise there would be no issue and no post. it is right that people move across state lines all the time for schools, but they "really" move, like buying a home in Bethesda for MCPS for the entire family, not using the address of a place they do not live in. people who use fake addresses or temporary rooms subleased just to "establish residency" are cheaters. what you are suggesting is first, to use an address where nobody in her family resides, and second, if the child gets a spot, to sublet a room somewhere where one of the parent can stay (or better pretend to live) just to establish residency, and then go back happily to Virginia, after (presumably) having taken a spot away from a DC resident kid. you are instructing her on how to cheat, have at least the decency of admitting it. (just to be clear, I have nothing against OP, actually I appreciate that she is being honest)
We'll, PP, we just disagree.
If the charter is that important to OP, then OP should give serious thought to moving the family (or part of it) back into the 2br rental long enough to establish residency and secure a spot at the charter. Once the spot has been secured, assuming the charter won't kick OP's child out for moving out of DC, OP can move the family back to VA. However, OP or OP's spouse will have to continue paying DC income tax or OP will have to start paying non-resident tuition.
Note that either way OP would be paying for attending the charter over and above the property taxes that OP (or OP's tenant) is already paying .
What you call cheating I call exploiting a potential loophole in the charter law.
Quite frankly, I don't event think that OP should have to move into that 2br rental temporarily. Non-resident property owners serve an important role in the DC housing market. They contribute to the stability of home values while increasing the stock of housing available to renters. I think that non-resident property owners should be given the same access to DC charter schools as residents, provided they pay non-resident tuition, of course, since they do not pay resident income taxes.
Exploiting a loophole is cheating. Your mother raised you wrong, pp.
No, PP, you're wrong. Exploiting a loophole does not entail the immorality that the word "cheating" implies.
OP has an obligation to act in the best interests of OP's child. OP thinks that a desirable charter school in DC might be the best fit for that child.
OP is a former DC resident and a long-time DC property owner. By virtue of owning that property, OP is in a position to re-establish DC residency and secure a spot in that charter. Once OP's child is attending the school, OP will have to decide whether to remain a DC resident and continue paying DC income taxes or return to VA and start paying non-resident tuition, assuming the charter allows OP to keep the spot.
I know of a family that moved over 1,000 miles into a very small apartment in DC to secure a spot for their child in a particular DC charter school. That family plans to buy a house in order to have more space. If they decide to move to VA for its larger houses and pay non-resident tuition to continue attending the charter -- assuming the charter allows them to keep the spot -- will they have engaged in some sort of immoral conduct? Of course not. They will have followed all of the rules under the DC charter law.
Why, then, is it cheating for OP to engage in essentially the same conduct?
As a former DC resident and a long-time DC property owner, OP's claim to a spot at a DC charter is at least a strong as that of a family with no ties to DC that moved 1,000 miles for that spot, and perhaps much stronger.
By the way, PP, let's keep my mother out of this discussion.
Anonymous
01/16/2013 13:17
Subject: We own in DC and VA, ok to go to school in DC?
I would like to see the IRS and state/local residency and tax data bases link up. I know of a "respectable" executive with a high annual income earned in a job in this area, plus substantial stock options. Lives in MoCo, but also has a home in Florida where he claims residency (no state income taxes, so very large tax savings to Mr. MoCoFlo. Not sure how he does that because to claim such residency usually requires that you spend a majority of calendar days in the lower-tax jurisdiction, which is a little hard to do when the job (and family) are here. Anyway, kiddies go to Whitman district schools, putting Florida residence further in doubt.