Anonymous
Post 12/19/2012 13:17     Subject: What do people mean when they say 2 kids is really hard?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:2 is hard if you have 1 as miserable as people have described on this thread. Sounds like people are raising monsters, not children. We have 3 under 4 and yes, it's tiring and time consuming, but no one's running away, they eat the same meal or don't eat that night, they understand we're a family and we love one another so it's a lot of playing together and helping one another. It's all perspective folks. Expect them to control your lives and they will. Keep control of your lives and kids are a wonderful compliment to it.


This. Another person with 3 under 4 here. I couldn't have said it better myself.


I agree. It is about parenting philosophy and the time you spend teaching your kids how to act. it seesm many of these parents that find it incredibly hard have a child centred parenting philosophy where they just run around after their child reacting to what they are doing, trying to give them what they want to keep them happy. That would be exhausting.

In our house...
Bedtime means bedtime
Stay with mommy means stay with mommy
Don't touch that means don't touch that
I said no means I said no
You need to wait a minute means you need to wait a minute
This is what we are having for dinner means this is what we are having for dinner

It is so much easier. The kids are happy because they have structure and know the expectations and we get to enjoy our time with them because we aren't constantly putting out fires, dealing with power struggles and chasing kids around. I have four in 5 years. One is the most stubborn child you have ever met, another is ADHD and easily distracted and impulsive yet even my two difficult kids have learned how to behave in a respectful and appropriate way. I have never understood the whole child-centred approach, I see it everywhere with parents chasing kids around, calling plaintively to the child to please listen to mommy while the child ignores them and does as they please and mommy has no respect or authority beyond running herself ragged, being owned by her child. They then end up having to deal with tears and screaming and dragging the child away. It is so much more work and so much harder then spending the time early on to teach your kids how to behave and to respect their parents.


You all sound so SMUG. I have the exact same rules, but my kids don't listen much of the time. They are extremely strong-willed, for starters, so it's very difficult to enforce those rules. "Bedtime means bedtime"? How cute. What do you do, duct tape your children into their beds? Some kids fight rules, and some listen. I have fighters, all the way. We're a very child-centered family, and no we don't "run after" our children!! How obnoxious of you to suggest so. Walk a mile in my shoes, and you'll change your tune fast. Some kids are harder to deal with than others. Deal with it, PPs.


Totally agree. Somes kids are easy and some are tough. The best parents in the world can have the most difficult child in the world, and that child will still be difficult.

If your ADHD kid really is able to listen to you all the time and behave appropriately at all times, you should really revisit his diagnosis.
Anonymous
Post 12/19/2012 13:12     Subject: What do people mean when they say 2 kids is really hard?
I think that the beginning is the easiest. For me, it has only gotten harder. I can't say it's too hard because we are looking to have a 4th. We have one 5 year old (just turned) and twin 21 month olds. I'd gladly have another if it happens. It's true what other posters say about enforcing rules and parenting style etc. That does make it easier if you are ontop of things.....but some kids are just naturally harder than others no matter what you do.
Anonymous
Post 12/19/2012 13:10     Subject: Re:What do people mean when they say 2 kids is really hard?
Anonymous wrote:But when they are older, it is so much easier

Our DS (4) and DD (6) play together. Our DD will tell our DS not to wake us up in the morning (she did this on her own), and last week we slept until we woke up on our own -- no kids waking us up -- and the kids were happily putting together a puzzle.



Yes, when this happens, it is WONDERFUL.

Anonymous
Post 12/19/2012 13:06     Subject: Re:What do people mean when they say 2 kids is really hard?
My problem is that I thought it would get easier as the kids get older, but it isn't, it's getting harder. I'm not sure how long I can continue on this treadmill and am wondering if I need to make major lifestyle changes or if it gets easier. Are any of you dual working households? How do you do it with two schoolage children? We have a 3 year old and a 7 year old both with very different needs and I'm afraid it will continue to get harder as they get older since the older one takes up most of the time. The logistics of just coordinating everything takes hours out of my day. The older child's needs are extensive now. Understanding the public school program through my child's eyes, helping with homework, driving to sports and cub scout activities, trying to arrange playdates, teaching responsibility and character skills, empathy, eating and hygeine habits, keeping up with the house and bills, trying to have a social life, have more time for my spouse, exercise to get back in shape, etc, etc. TIA for any help.
Anonymous
Post 12/19/2012 12:45     Subject: Re:What do people mean when they say 2 kids is really hard?
Anonymous wrote:OK, so for the people who say this is about your parenting philosophy, when does this become true? I am in the newborn stage right now with #2, and my usually awesome, well-behaved toddler is regressing a little-- peeing her pants, even pooping them twice, which made her sob for a long time out of shame and embarrassment, crying at the drop of a hat, pretending to be the baby. As for the baby, setting limits w/ a fussy 3-week-old? "No, it is not acceptable for you to be crying for every diaper change! Stop demanding nourishment, gosh darn it!"

I do think when it comes down to it, I am fortunate. My baby will nap in her pack and play/bouncer when she is not too refluxy or fussy, and my toddler will play independently for hours and obeys my requests. However, there is still: operating on 5 hours of total sleep, no more than 2 of them consecutive; a toddler who has stopped napping (we still do quiet time, but she just doesn't sleep) so she is cranky by late afternoon; having to time things perfectly with both kids to even get out of the house to play in the backyard; trying to console a screaming, unhappy newborn while I change a huge diaper blowout when the toddler trips and falls and is bleeding and screaming for me, too, and so I grab the baby because I can't leave her on the changing table and she poops and pees all over me while I am rushing to toddler...

Maybe I am just fabulously inept, but w/ a 3 week old and a 2 yr old, I would say it's not constantly hard-- I've finished 3 novels while breastfeeding/burping alone, so there is a form of downtime, and I'm on this site now!-- but there are definitely trying moments that would not exist with only one kid, or with two caregivers for two kids-- my weekends with husband are actually really fun and do-able. But in any case, I would really challenge the people who say 2 kids is easy to please try to remember the early days with #2; I think even with the easiest baby in the world, there is likely some challenge to trying to feed and clothe and change and bathe and nap/bedtime 2 (or more!) kids w/ different schedules, but both of whom are still dependent on you for basic needs, often at the same time.


I don't think any of us who thought the transition from 1 to 2 wasn't so bad would deny that having a baby again was hard and presented challenges (sleep being a BIG one) and of course, you cannot set limits on a 3 week old. But you can to a certain extent on a 2-3 year old. The first years are hard, but hopefully that work makes the next years much much easier.
Anonymous
Post 12/19/2012 12:41     Subject: What do people mean when they say 2 kids is really hard?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:2 is hard if you have 1 as miserable as people have described on this thread. Sounds like people are raising monsters, not children. We have 3 under 4 and yes, it's tiring and time consuming, but no one's running away, they eat the same meal or don't eat that night, they understand we're a family and we love one another so it's a lot of playing together and helping one another. It's all perspective folks. Expect them to control your lives and they will. Keep control of your lives and kids are a wonderful compliment to it.


This. Another person with 3 under 4 here. I couldn't have said it better myself.


I agree. It is about parenting philosophy and the time you spend teaching your kids how to act. it seesm many of these parents that find it incredibly hard have a child centred parenting philosophy where they just run around after their child reacting to what they are doing, trying to give them what they want to keep them happy. That would be exhausting.

In our house...
Bedtime means bedtime
Stay with mommy means stay with mommy
Don't touch that means don't touch that
I said no means I said no
You need to wait a minute means you need to wait a minute
This is what we are having for dinner means this is what we are having for dinner

It is so much easier. The kids are happy because they have structure and know the expectations and we get to enjoy our time with them because we aren't constantly putting out fires, dealing with power struggles and chasing kids around. I have four in 5 years. One is the most stubborn child you have ever met, another is ADHD and easily distracted and impulsive yet even my two difficult kids have learned how to behave in a respectful and appropriate way. I have never understood the whole child-centred approach, I see it everywhere with parents chasing kids around, calling plaintively to the child to please listen to mommy while the child ignores them and does as they please and mommy has no respect or authority beyond running herself ragged, being owned by her child. They then end up having to deal with tears and screaming and dragging the child away. It is so much more work and so much harder then spending the time early on to teach your kids how to behave and to respect their parents.


You all sound so SMUG. I have the exact same rules, but my kids don't listen much of the time. They are extremely strong-willed, for starters, so it's very difficult to enforce those rules. "Bedtime means bedtime"? How cute. What do you do, duct tape your children into their beds? Some kids fight rules, and some listen. I have fighters, all the way. We're a very child-centered family, and no we don't "run after" our children!! How obnoxious of you to suggest so. Walk a mile in my shoes, and you'll change your tune fast. Some kids are harder to deal with than others. Deal with it, PPs.


I provide this for the benefit of those who really do want to figure out how to make their houses run more smoothly and not to sound smug. I think my kids are generally well-behaved (and I emphasize generally b/c they are after all kids) at least in part because we put in a lot of hard/consistent work in when they were little and reinforce that now (I have no idea how that will pan out as they grow/become teens so I recognize that things change). And obviously there are extremely difficult kids, but I think most kids are in a normal range of easy going/compliant to strong-willed. And kids also realize what they can get away with, if you let them, they will. For example, we have friends who have three kids, all very different personalities. One of their daughters was very challenging as a baby and until 3 or so. But all of their kids (who are now 10, 7 and 4) are very well-behaved. How could three totally different kids be that way? I'm guessing, in large part, because of the parenting. They used consistent rules. None run away, they go to bed etc. Compare that with a friend whose son just "refused to go to bed" from the time he was 3. She said "he just won't". And she didn't make him. So from then on (until now, he's 9), he's up past 11. No, you cannot duct tape your kid to the bed. But you can, every time they get out, take them back up. Again and again and again until they get it. Or use reward charts or incentives. If your kids refuses to eat dinner (which includes at least one thing that you know they like) because they want something else, too bad. And once they're old enough, you don't like the pot roast (or whatever), you may go make yourself a turkey sandwich. When it's time to clean up toys, I'll help, but if I do it alone, then they're getting cleaned up into a bag and getting put in storage. We try to do this all in an age appropriate way (my 7 year old could clean up more than my 2 year old) and to be firm but kind. And to build fun in when we can (dance party clean up). We also try to add control for them (dinner, they can pick the veggie or fruit, bedtime you get 10 extra minutes if you're reading). Just some thoughts.
Anonymous
Post 12/19/2012 12:33     Subject: Re:What do people mean when they say 2 kids is really hard?
OK, so for the people who say this is about your parenting philosophy, when does this become true? I am in the newborn stage right now with #2, and my usually awesome, well-behaved toddler is regressing a little-- peeing her pants, even pooping them twice, which made her sob for a long time out of shame and embarrassment, crying at the drop of a hat, pretending to be the baby. As for the baby, setting limits w/ a fussy 3-week-old? "No, it is not acceptable for you to be crying for every diaper change! Stop demanding nourishment, gosh darn it!"

I do think when it comes down to it, I am fortunate. My baby will nap in her pack and play/bouncer when she is not too refluxy or fussy, and my toddler will play independently for hours and obeys my requests. However, there is still: operating on 5 hours of total sleep, no more than 2 of them consecutive; a toddler who has stopped napping (we still do quiet time, but she just doesn't sleep) so she is cranky by late afternoon; having to time things perfectly with both kids to even get out of the house to play in the backyard; trying to console a screaming, unhappy newborn while I change a huge diaper blowout when the toddler trips and falls and is bleeding and screaming for me, too, and so I grab the baby because I can't leave her on the changing table and she poops and pees all over me while I am rushing to toddler...

Maybe I am just fabulously inept, but w/ a 3 week old and a 2 yr old, I would say it's not constantly hard-- I've finished 3 novels while breastfeeding/burping alone, so there is a form of downtime, and I'm on this site now!-- but there are definitely trying moments that would not exist with only one kid, or with two caregivers for two kids-- my weekends with husband are actually really fun and do-able. But in any case, I would really challenge the people who say 2 kids is easy to please try to remember the early days with #2; I think even with the easiest baby in the world, there is likely some challenge to trying to feed and clothe and change and bathe and nap/bedtime 2 (or more!) kids w/ different schedules, but both of whom are still dependent on you for basic needs, often at the same time.
Anonymous
Post 12/19/2012 12:22     Subject: What do people mean when they say 2 kids is really hard?
It's only as hard as you make it.
Anonymous
Post 12/19/2012 12:19     Subject: What do people mean when they say 2 kids is really hard?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:2 is hard if you have 1 as miserable as people have described on this thread. Sounds like people are raising monsters, not children. We have 3 under 4 and yes, it's tiring and time consuming, but no one's running away, they eat the same meal or don't eat that night, they understand we're a family and we love one another so it's a lot of playing together and helping one another. It's all perspective folks. Expect them to control your lives and they will. Keep control of your lives and kids are a wonderful compliment to it.


This. Another person with 3 under 4 here. I couldn't have said it better myself.


I agree. It is about parenting philosophy and the time you spend teaching your kids how to act. it seesm many of these parents that find it incredibly hard have a child centred parenting philosophy where they just run around after their child reacting to what they are doing, trying to give them what they want to keep them happy. That would be exhausting.

In our house...
Bedtime means bedtime
Stay with mommy means stay with mommy
Don't touch that means don't touch that
I said no means I said no
You need to wait a minute means you need to wait a minute
This is what we are having for dinner means this is what we are having for dinner

It is so much easier. The kids are happy because they have structure and know the expectations and we get to enjoy our time with them because we aren't constantly putting out fires, dealing with power struggles and chasing kids around. I have four in 5 years. One is the most stubborn child you have ever met, another is ADHD and easily distracted and impulsive yet even my two difficult kids have learned how to behave in a respectful and appropriate way. I have never understood the whole child-centred approach, I see it everywhere with parents chasing kids around, calling plaintively to the child to please listen to mommy while the child ignores them and does as they please and mommy has no respect or authority beyond running herself ragged, being owned by her child. They then end up having to deal with tears and screaming and dragging the child away. It is so much more work and so much harder then spending the time early on to teach your kids how to behave and to respect their parents.


You all sound so SMUG. I have the exact same rules, but my kids don't listen much of the time. They are extremely strong-willed, for starters, so it's very difficult to enforce those rules. "Bedtime means bedtime"? How cute. What do you do, duct tape your children into their beds? Some kids fight rules, and some listen. I have fighters, all the way. We're a very child-centered family, and no we don't "run after" our children!! How obnoxious of you to suggest so. Walk a mile in my shoes, and you'll change your tune fast. Some kids are harder to deal with than others. Deal with it, PPs.
Anonymous
Post 12/19/2012 12:16     Subject: What do people mean when they say 2 kids is really hard?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:2 is hard if you have 1 as miserable as people have described on this thread. Sounds like people are raising monsters, not children. We have 3 under 4 and yes, it's tiring and time consuming, but no one's running away, they eat the same meal or don't eat that night, they understand we're a family and we love one another so it's a lot of playing together and helping one another. It's all perspective folks. Expect them to control your lives and they will. Keep control of your lives and kids are a wonderful compliment to it.


This. Another person with 3 under 4 here. I couldn't have said it better myself.


I agree. It is about parenting philosophy and the time you spend teaching your kids how to act. it seesm many of these parents that find it incredibly hard have a child centred parenting philosophy where they just run around after their child reacting to what they are doing, trying to give them what they want to keep them happy. That would be exhausting.

In our house...
Bedtime means bedtime
Stay with mommy means stay with mommy
Don't touch that means don't touch that
I said no means I said no
You need to wait a minute means you need to wait a minute
This is what we are having for dinner means this is what we are having for dinner

It is so much easier. The kids are happy because they have structure and know the expectations and we get to enjoy our time with them because we aren't constantly putting out fires, dealing with power struggles and chasing kids around. I have four in 5 years. One is the most stubborn child you have ever met, another is ADHD and easily distracted and impulsive yet even my two difficult kids have learned how to behave in a respectful and appropriate way. I have never understood the whole child-centred approach, I see it everywhere with parents chasing kids around, calling plaintively to the child to please listen to mommy while the child ignores them and does as they please and mommy has no respect or authority beyond running herself ragged, being owned by her child. They then end up having to deal with tears and screaming and dragging the child away. It is so much more work and so much harder then spending the time early on to teach your kids how to behave and to respect their parents.


Any references for guides on how, exactly, to do this and what parenting behaviors to avoid if you want to enforce appropriate boundaries for your kids consistently? As a first time parent I know where I want to get, but I have difficulty seeing how, exactly, to get there.
Anonymous
Post 12/19/2012 12:15     Subject: What do people mean when they say 2 kids is really hard?
Didnt read the thread, so am responding to OP's original post. Two kids nearly killed me. It was so much harder than having only one. We had two parents and one kid, and I could hand the kid off to DH, go out and shop or deal with whatever I had to deal with knowing the kid was safe with her dad.

Two kids, and suddenly Dad can't handle two kids, and so I could only hand off one kid to Dad. Uh oh. I'm always stuck with one kid, not a single minute to myself. Plus I'm nursing #2, while #1 still has plenty of needs from Mommy. Plus I SAH, so I have household cleaning, cooking, errands, etc. etc. that DH does not pick up, even though my responsibilities have doubled. I don't know how I'd manage it if I didn't sah, but lots of women do, so I'm sure it's possible.

If you have a nanny who's responsible and reliable, and reliable back up care, like a grandmother, or other help, you will probably be fine. I had none of the above, and so #2 was torture for me. My 3rd and 4th were twins, so that's a whole different story, but even that was much easier than the transition from one to two kids. I got help with the twins, so that made the whole thing a lot easier, plus I'd been through it all twice by that time, so I knew what was essential, and what I could let go of.

Plus, after the twins were born, I had a great housekeeper who babysat in a pinch, so that was a real lifesaver at times.
Anonymous
Post 12/19/2012 12:13     Subject: What do people mean when they say 2 kids is really hard?
What shocked me after having my second was how easy things seemed to be when I only had one DC with me. Only one kid at the grocery store? Only one kid at the doctor? It was like a vacation.
Anonymous
Post 12/19/2012 12:11     Subject: What do people mean when they say 2 kids is really hard?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:2 is hard if you have 1 as miserable as people have described on this thread. Sounds like people are raising monsters, not children. We have 3 under 4 and yes, it's tiring and time consuming, but no one's running away, they eat the same meal or don't eat that night, they understand we're a family and we love one another so it's a lot of playing together and helping one another. It's all perspective folks. Expect them to control your lives and they will. Keep control of your lives and kids are a wonderful compliment to it.


This. Another person with 3 under 4 here. I couldn't have said it better myself.


I agree. It is about parenting philosophy and the time you spend teaching your kids how to act. it seesm many of these parents that find it incredibly hard have a child centred parenting philosophy where they just run around after their child reacting to what they are doing, trying to give them what they want to keep them happy. That would be exhausting.

In our house...
Bedtime means bedtime
Stay with mommy means stay with mommy
Don't touch that means don't touch that
I said no means I said no
You need to wait a minute means you need to wait a minute
This is what we are having for dinner means this is what we are having for dinner

It is so much easier. The kids are happy because they have structure and know the expectations and we get to enjoy our time with them because we aren't constantly putting out fires, dealing with power struggles and chasing kids around. I have four in 5 years. One is the most stubborn child you have ever met, another is ADHD and easily distracted and impulsive yet even my two difficult kids have learned how to behave in a respectful and appropriate way. I have never understood the whole child-centred approach, I see it everywhere with parents chasing kids around, calling plaintively to the child to please listen to mommy while the child ignores them and does as they please and mommy has no respect or authority beyond running herself ragged, being owned by her child. They then end up having to deal with tears and screaming and dragging the child away. It is so much more work and so much harder then spending the time early on to teach your kids how to behave and to respect their parents.
Anonymous
Post 12/19/2012 12:04     Subject: Re:What do people mean when they say 2 kids is really hard?
But when they are older, it is so much easier

Our DS (4) and DD (6) play together. Our DD will tell our DS not to wake us up in the morning (she did this on her own), and last week we slept until we woke up on our own -- no kids waking us up -- and the kids were happily putting together a puzzle.

Anonymous
Post 12/19/2012 11:50     Subject: Re:What do people mean when they say 2 kids is really hard?
Honestly, my main complaint is it means double the chance of sick days, and double things like dr. appointments. It's mostly logistical for me.