The poor know they are not welcome in the suburbs. DC is their home.

Anonymous wrote:There are many middle-class AA families living in affordable neighborhoods in DC and want to stay for the same reason white people do.

There are poverty-stricken people living in the DC suburbs too whose schools are just as bad as the ones in DC. We just hear about them less but they are not part of the "reform" movement.

Moving poor people out of DC may help with gentrification and better schools, but it won't help the poor people who left.

That's quite debatable. With housing vouchers people have the chance to start anew. And while, yes, there are poor people in the suburbs, there are nothing like the concentrations you see in the inner city.

What's not debatable is that concentrating poor people in DC is not doing them any favors. There's more capacity for the poor in the suburbs. There's not in DC.

There are many middle-class AA families living in affordable neighborhoods in DC and want to stay for the same reason white people do.

There are poverty-stricken people living in the DC suburbs too whose schools are just as bad as the ones in DC. We just hear about them less but they are not part of the "reform" movement.

Moving poor people out of DC may help with gentrification and better schools, but it won't help the poor people who left.

Anonymous wrote:Amen to that.

Not only do they not want to get their hands dirty but they want to make teachers responsible for all of this.

And make their own living supporting educational policies that they, at some point, recognize are not working. I wish more were like the former TFA teacher writing here, but that involves facing reality and putting kids before their own pride and paychecks.

It would also help if the parent community would call them out on their failures.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DC is a place with fantastic job opportunities, there for the taking..."

Agreed, but most of DC's (and by that I assume you mean the region) job opportunities are in the burbs. That's where the majority of the region's poor should be living.

Instead we pen them up in a handful of neighborhoods in the center city and wonder why they don't act like suburban middle-class. As regional poverty continues to "suburbanize" we're going to see better and better outcomes for the regions poor. We'll also see better-funded (since they'll be a suburban voting-block) and more effective programs (since there will be less concentration) to help them.

Who's penning anyone up? I don't see concertina wire and guard towers to keep anyone in those neighborhoods against their will. If it were me growing up in those neighborhoods, I'd be doing anything and everything to get myself OUT of those neighborhoods and into a more livable, workable and affordable circumstance - and there are plenty of more livable, workable and affordable places to be. Having grown up poor and having lived in some pretty bad neighborhoods, I speak from experience.

If you don't understand the economic and social factors that keep poor people (and their children) in bad neighborhoods, and how that was historically shaped, I'm not sure I can help you.

There's a reason poor folks talk about "making it out" of the ghetto. And why there's been a massive outflow of middle-class African Americans from the city. It started with the Fair Housing Act of 68 which finally made overt housing discrimination illegal, but that emigration continues to this day. When poor people move into the middle-class the move to the suburbs; when they don't, they don't. It's pretty much the economic success story of the last half-century.

As you say, there are plenty more livable, workable, and affordable places to be. DC's housing policy should be to allow it's poor citizens to move where they would like, and where they have the best shot of successfully moving out of poverty. That place is in suburban housing, subsidized by generous housing vouchers.

Anyone who doesn't understand this dynamic is trying very hard not to do so.

Anonymous wrote:"DC is a place with fantastic job opportunities, there for the taking..."

Agreed, but most of DC's (and by that I assume you mean the region) job opportunities are in the burbs. That's where the majority of the region's poor should be living.

Instead we pen them up in a handful of neighborhoods in the center city and wonder why they don't act like suburban middle-class. As regional poverty continues to "suburbanize" we're going to see better and better outcomes for the regions poor. We'll also see better-funded (since they'll be a suburban voting-block) and more effective programs (since there will be less concentration) to help them.

Who's penning anyone up? I don't see concertina wire and guard towers to keep anyone in those neighborhoods against their will. If it were me growing up in those neighborhoods, I'd be doing anything and everything to get myself OUT of those neighborhoods and into a more livable, workable and affordable circumstance - and there are plenty of more livable, workable and affordable places to be. Having grown up poor and having lived in some pretty bad neighborhoods, I speak from experience.

"DC is a place with fantastic job opportunities, there for the taking..."

Agreed, but most of DC's (and by that I assume you mean the region) job opportunities are in the burbs. That's where the majority of the region's poor should be living.

Instead we pen them up in a handful of neighborhoods in the center city and wonder why they don't act like suburban middle-class. As regional poverty continues to "suburbanize" we're going to see better and better outcomes for the regions poor. We'll also see better-funded (since they'll be a suburban voting-block) and more effective programs (since there will be less concentration) to help them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Great point. But I would stress that you do not need to wonder about how poor prenatal care relates to delayed devolpment and resulting special education student issues. The evidence is all around the schools. I posted previously about how a failing school is either part of a failing community that we need to embrace, and restructure completely, or simply walk away from. Pouring our time and efforts into bite sized pieces of the problem does nothing. I am a former corporate attorney who joined TFA 5 years ago in DC, because I wanted to give back and help the community. Now, five years later I am not sure we can force educational values on a community that is still resistant. I tend to shy away from the incubator model of the KIPP and SEED schools, where they ignore the community and just pull from the top. However, advocating for paretns and famillies who do not know what they are missing is a lost cause. Best thing I hope for now are lower birth rates. It's sad, but true.

Good to hear someone from TFA expressing these views. More of you need to come out of the woodwork and share your experiences. But I'm troubled by your defeatism. You think we should "simply walk away" from communities that are in distress?

I'm troubled by your willingness label both communities and schools as "failing". Isn't it our society that is failing to address the needs of these communities?

There are many students who come from these "so-called" failing communities and failing schools that are productive, tax-paying members of this broader community. Maybe the schools are not failing as much as you think?

If the folks living in these communities had any choice in the matter, they would've left two decades ago, just as all the middle class residents did. The kids who manage to beat the odds and graduate and get a decent job move to the burbs. They do this because a) you get more house, b) the schools are better, and c) closer proximity to jobs.

DC's policy should be aimed at giving our poor those same advantages. That means much more investment in portable housing vouchers, and counseling in how to find a great neighborhood in the suburbs.

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Great point. But I would stress that you do not need to wonder about how poor prenatal care relates to delayed devolpment and resulting special education student issues. The evidence is all around the schools. I posted previously about how a failing school is either part of a failing community that we need to embrace, and restructure completely, or simply walk away from. Pouring our time and efforts into bite sized pieces of the problem does nothing. I am a former corporate attorney who joined TFA 5 years ago in DC, because I wanted to give back and help the community. Now, five years later I am not sure we can force educational values on a community that is still resistant. I tend to shy away from the incubator model of the KIPP and SEED schools, where they ignore the community and just pull from the top. However, advocating for paretns and famillies who do not know what they are missing is a lost cause. Best thing I hope for now are lower birth rates. It's sad, but true.

Lower birth rates and gentrification. More poverty in the suburbs means deconcentration of poverty. DC's housing agency should be counseling applicants on how to use their Section 8 vouchers in MD and VA. You can get more house for your money, there are better job opportunities, and the schools are better. It's nuts that DC spends so much trying to keep poor folks trapped in the city.

Anonymous wrote:PP, I'd like to see some figures to back that up, if it's true.

It seems extraordinary that somehow the District of Columbia would have a disproportionately large number of special needs students as compared to anywhere in the nation, and that said special needs were so significantly more severe than average for special needs that it would entail more money. If that's the case, one should start wondering about serious environmental problems causing birth defects.

There's no need to wonder about "serious environmental problems." It's massive concentrated poverty. That's the environmental problem. Most special ed students in DC suffer from issues that are related to poor pre- and neonatal care, and from stress-related issues. And, yes you see this in other school districts where poverty is hyperconcentrated via decades of public policy.

To argue--as a PP did--that "99% of the time it's the parents who are to blame makes an art form out of "missing the point."

Anonymous wrote:extraordinary if not for the disproportionately large segment of DC's population suffering from joblessness, homelessness, poor health, emotional distress, and substance addiction, all of which can contribute to physical, cognitive, and emotional effects that lead to the need for special education.

Where the need is greater, the costs will be greater.

DC is a place with fantastic job opportunities, there for the taking - people come here from all over the country for its' unique opportunities. BUT, those job opportunities are for people who are willing to pay attention and work hard, and most of them require a college degree. Nobody is denying anyone that opportunity to work hard and study to get ahead, nobody is putting a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to abuse drugs - it's about choices.

Let's be honest here - what's keeping that problem-riddled segment in DC? It's obviously not jobs, and I don't think one can say it's family or community either, because family and community are what are compounding the problems, as opposed to serving as a support network. The support network is taxpayers and DC government - continuing to enable poor life choices - the very people that everyone wants to blame - and nothing will ever change as long as that's the status quo.

Amen to that.

Not only do they not want to get their hands dirty but they want to make teachers responsible for all of this.

NO, I do not think we should walk away, at all. My views would be inline with the traditional 'liberal' thinks of doubling down and restructuring an entire community. Spending the years and money giving to a community that has a LONG way to go. The notion of walking away is my way of saying that either we need to give completely or not expect change. I think that people often want to 'fix' isolated issues, but do not want the nitty gritty of getting their hands dirty.

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Great point. But I would stress that you do not need to wonder about how poor prenatal care relates to delayed devolpment and resulting special education student issues. The evidence is all around the schools. I posted previously about how a failing school is either part of a failing community that we need to embrace, and restructure completely, or simply walk away from. Pouring our time and efforts into bite sized pieces of the problem does nothing. I am a former corporate attorney who joined TFA 5 years ago in DC, because I wanted to give back and help the community. Now, five years later I am not sure we can force educational values on a community that is still resistant. I tend to shy away from the incubator model of the KIPP and SEED schools, where they ignore the community and just pull from the top. However, advocating for paretns and famillies who do not know what they are missing is a lost cause. Best thing I hope for now are lower birth rates. It's sad, but true.

Good to hear someone from TFA expressing these views. More of you need to come out of the woodwork and share your experiences. But I'm troubled by your defeatism. You think we should "simply walk away" from communities that are in distress?

I'm troubled by your willingness label both communities and schools as "failing". Isn't it our society that is failing to address the needs of these communities?

There are many students who come from these "so-called" failing communities and failing schools that are productive, tax-paying members of this broader community. Maybe the schools are not failing as much as you think?

extraordinary if not for the disproportionately large segment of DC's population suffering from joblessness, homelessness, poor health, emotional distress, and substance addiction, all of which can contribute to physical, cognitive, and emotional effects that lead to the need for special education.

Where the need is greater, the costs will be greater.