Anonymous
11/06/2012 13:42
Subject: Re:Deal or Basis for DCs? Advice Needed.
+1 do it.
Anonymous
11/06/2012 11:28
Subject: Re:Deal or Basis for DCs? Advice Needed.
I'm the Basis and former Deal parent. Good idea, 4:15 - had a look at the MD threads and several with a political focus are running concurrently. This one has the most hits "Who to Vote for on Board of Education Supporting More Challenging Curriculum for Advanced Learners"
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/267155.page
Two years hence, I pledge to do some research, talk to pols, make a recommended list of supportive DC candidates and post the list on DCUM and other parent forums and list servs. I'd love to see Wells go if he's replaced by a CM who gets it.
It's ridiculous that there isn't a single public middle school in DC where remedial students and advanced learners don't sit in the very same English, foreign language, social studies and science classes, especially in 8th grade. Kids at both ends of the achievement spectrum get the short end of the stick for political reasons. Moreover, parents who complain are told to hit the road for privates (particularly by fellow parents).
Basis may or may not hire that remedial teacher- money is in short supply.
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/267155.page
Two years hence, I pledge to do some research, talk to pols, make a recommended list of supportive DC candidates and post the list on DCUM and other parent forums and list servs. I'd love to see Wells go if he's replaced by a CM who gets it.
It's ridiculous that there isn't a single public middle school in DC where remedial students and advanced learners don't sit in the very same English, foreign language, social studies and science classes, especially in 8th grade. Kids at both ends of the achievement spectrum get the short end of the stick for political reasons. Moreover, parents who complain are told to hit the road for privates (particularly by fellow parents).
Basis may or may not hire that remedial teacher- money is in short supply.
Anonymous
11/06/2012 06:59
Subject: Deal or Basis for DCs? Advice Needed.
Wells has been lukewarm on Charters as well.. We only have At-Large choices on the ballot this time around.
Anonymous
11/06/2012 04:15
Subject: Re:Deal or Basis for DCs? Advice Needed.
Have not posted here. This discussion is interesting because a high school's ability to attract Asian parents is the acid test. Italian-Americans (I'm one) and others tend to be less exacting, explaining why NYC's 8 famous magnet high schools are majority Asian to an institution in a city that's not 10% Asian. From where I sit, the issue isn't "unacknowledged racism," or a parent's failure to support DC public schools, as much as newly acknowledged logic about what the city needs to do to keep a sizeable upper-middle-class cohort past ES. On the MD & VA threads at election time, pps put up lists of ward, county + state politicians to vote for, those who seem likely to back expanding programs for advanced learners. DC parents could organize to support politicians willing to go to bat for ms honors courses and high school programs that can begin to compete with the best in the burbs, while working to oust those who won't (e.g. Tommy Wells, who won't back the Brent + Maury parents on a Stuart Hobson feed, or scrapping the unconstructive Cluster).
Anonymous
11/05/2012 18:18
Subject: Deal or Basis for DCs? Advice Needed.
Op, I think DC Public Schools and Charter Schools is not where your husband is going to find what he wants for your kids. No way is any public school up to his standards at this point. I am the pp who wrote positively about Latin. But I don't assume it is as good as suburban g and t programs in terms of resources and cohorts and college admissions
For my family, it allows us to keep living in a city we love with all those benefits and gives us optimisim that our pretty bright kids will get an excellent and well rounded public education here. That's a different thing.
For my family, it allows us to keep living in a city we love with all those benefits and gives us optimisim that our pretty bright kids will get an excellent and well rounded public education here. That's a different thing.
Anonymous
11/05/2012 17:32
Subject: Re:Deal or Basis for DCs? Advice Needed.
Anonymous wrote:Thanks, PPs.
My better half doesn't come across as racist - he's chummy with AA neighbors and colleagues, and convinced me to live on the Hill, when we could have afforded Upper NW. He believes in a DC public education in the sense that he's active on our ES PTA and hasn't been willing to move to the burbs yet. If DCPS was running a solid test-in middle school magnet, or there was a charter high school out there attracting more than a handful of Asian and dispatching some graduates to Ivy League schools, he'd be interested. He feels like we're about to hit the wall and doesn't relate to DC parents and educators who denounce public middle school tracking.
We know all about why weak students end up at Latin, Deal and Basis and, much as we sympathize with these kids and their families, we don't want our children in class with them past ES. My older child, with her big personality and multitudinous abilities, began acting out in class this past spring, as her (very good) teachers had no choice but to focus on prepping weak students for the DC-CAS. We started sending her to school with "lap" assignments to complete while she waited for other kids to complete their work. He predicts that a DC middle school will simply mean more of the same, with tough kids calling her chink, accompanied by the standard pulling-on-corner-of-eyes gesture. I remain much less convinced.
If DCPS and DC Charter want Asian parents to stay in the public system past ES, and we are far from convinced that this is the case, then the emphasis must shift from inclusiveness and diversity and a warm community (few Asian parents care about these things) in EVERY CASE to a focus on blue chip college admissions at at least one high school. I can wax enthusiastic about liberal learning and a classical education and a school rejecting social promotion until I'm blue in the face, but he mainly wants to get our kids to an Ivy, Duke, Stanford, MIT or wherever after having some fun in HS (which he couldn't do as a teen).
My sense here is that we're around a decade ahead of our time in what we're looking for. DC will surely get there.
I would agree with most of this--other than the bizarre implication that somehow only Asians feel this way. It's like saying, "As an American of Italian extraction, I love my children, and want them to succeed. Failure may be just fine for your kids, but Italians like myself actually love their children, and want them to have a life that's meaningful."
Um, yeah, we feel the same way, thanks.
Anonymous
11/05/2012 17:26
Subject: Re:Deal or Basis for DCs? Advice Needed.
^a decade sounds optimistic, maybe two....
Latin AND former Deal parent. OP usefully draws attention to why there are few Asian kids with Asian parents (vs. adopted by non-Asian parents, probably more of these at Latin than the former) in our DC public schools to date. Fundamentally, it isn't great to be the only one, or one of the few, of anything...the only girl, guy, person in a wheelchair, white kid, black kid, whatever.
DC1, at Deal, probably didn't need honors courses for challenge, but I don't think we'll stick with Latin for DC2, who's more advanced. The fine curriculum and teaching, and supportive community, can only do so much for the school when, yes, a good many kids are playing catch up from day one. Latin does really well with what it has to work with but can't compete with MoCo and Ffx. Wish it weren't so. We looked into switching to BASIS, but the Arizona team didn't seem all that clued into the DC mileu.
Latin AND former Deal parent. OP usefully draws attention to why there are few Asian kids with Asian parents (vs. adopted by non-Asian parents, probably more of these at Latin than the former) in our DC public schools to date. Fundamentally, it isn't great to be the only one, or one of the few, of anything...the only girl, guy, person in a wheelchair, white kid, black kid, whatever.
DC1, at Deal, probably didn't need honors courses for challenge, but I don't think we'll stick with Latin for DC2, who's more advanced. The fine curriculum and teaching, and supportive community, can only do so much for the school when, yes, a good many kids are playing catch up from day one. Latin does really well with what it has to work with but can't compete with MoCo and Ffx. Wish it weren't so. We looked into switching to BASIS, but the Arizona team didn't seem all that clued into the DC mileu.
Anonymous
11/05/2012 16:09
Subject: Re:Deal or Basis for DCs? Advice Needed.
Thanks, PPs.
My better half doesn't come across as racist - he's chummy with AA neighbors and colleagues, and convinced me to live on the Hill, when we could have afforded Upper NW. He believes in a DC public education in the sense that he's active on our ES PTA and hasn't been willing to move to the burbs yet. If DCPS was running a solid test-in middle school magnet, or there was a charter high school out there attracting more than a handful of Asian and dispatching some graduates to Ivy League schools, he'd be interested. He feels like we're about to hit the wall and doesn't relate to DC parents and educators who denounce public middle school tracking.
We know all about why weak students end up at Latin, Deal and Basis and, much as we sympathize with these kids and their families, we don't want our children in class with them past ES. My older child, with her big personality and multitudinous abilities, began acting out in class this past spring, as her (very good) teachers had no choice but to focus on prepping weak students for the DC-CAS. We started sending her to school with "lap" assignments to complete while she waited for other kids to complete their work. He predicts that a DC middle school will simply mean more of the same, with tough kids calling her chink, accompanied by the standard pulling-on-corner-of-eyes gesture. I remain much less convinced.
If DCPS and DC Charter want Asian parents to stay in the public system past ES, and we are far from convinced that this is the case, then the emphasis must shift from inclusiveness and diversity and a warm community (few Asian parents care about these things) in EVERY CASE to a focus on blue chip college admissions at at least one high school. I can wax enthusiastic about liberal learning and a classical education and a school rejecting social promotion until I'm blue in the face, but he mainly wants to get our kids to an Ivy, Duke, Stanford, MIT or wherever after having some fun in HS (which he couldn't do as a teen).
My sense here is that we're around a decade ahead of our time in what we're looking for. DC will surely get there.
My better half doesn't come across as racist - he's chummy with AA neighbors and colleagues, and convinced me to live on the Hill, when we could have afforded Upper NW. He believes in a DC public education in the sense that he's active on our ES PTA and hasn't been willing to move to the burbs yet. If DCPS was running a solid test-in middle school magnet, or there was a charter high school out there attracting more than a handful of Asian and dispatching some graduates to Ivy League schools, he'd be interested. He feels like we're about to hit the wall and doesn't relate to DC parents and educators who denounce public middle school tracking.
We know all about why weak students end up at Latin, Deal and Basis and, much as we sympathize with these kids and their families, we don't want our children in class with them past ES. My older child, with her big personality and multitudinous abilities, began acting out in class this past spring, as her (very good) teachers had no choice but to focus on prepping weak students for the DC-CAS. We started sending her to school with "lap" assignments to complete while she waited for other kids to complete their work. He predicts that a DC middle school will simply mean more of the same, with tough kids calling her chink, accompanied by the standard pulling-on-corner-of-eyes gesture. I remain much less convinced.
If DCPS and DC Charter want Asian parents to stay in the public system past ES, and we are far from convinced that this is the case, then the emphasis must shift from inclusiveness and diversity and a warm community (few Asian parents care about these things) in EVERY CASE to a focus on blue chip college admissions at at least one high school. I can wax enthusiastic about liberal learning and a classical education and a school rejecting social promotion until I'm blue in the face, but he mainly wants to get our kids to an Ivy, Duke, Stanford, MIT or wherever after having some fun in HS (which he couldn't do as a teen).
My sense here is that we're around a decade ahead of our time in what we're looking for. DC will surely get there.
Anonymous
11/05/2012 15:20
Subject: Deal or Basis for DCs? Advice Needed.
Latin parent here--
I am not sure why you have 25% failing to meet proficiency. My guess is that since Latin is open-lottery---you are seeing at least 25% of the students coming from elementary schools which also failed to meet basic proficiency. I think the test is to compare the data between the 5th and 8th grades and see if there is overall improvement. (I tried to find the relevant data on OSSE but couldn't immediately lay hands on it.) That would tell you whether Latin is managing to remediate the effects of substandard elementary education with its students.
I realize that doesn't address your concerns however about the already-high performer. I know that Latin's teachers try to offer extra projects that will help challenge the advanced learners. My sense is that you can get a lot more G&T-type focus in MoCo or Fairfax county, so your husband is right in that regard. What we like about Latin is the classical curriculum and the small size. We too wrestle with whether to move to one of the excellent suburban systems but worry that our particular kid would not thrive in a huge public school setting.
I am not sure why you have 25% failing to meet proficiency. My guess is that since Latin is open-lottery---you are seeing at least 25% of the students coming from elementary schools which also failed to meet basic proficiency. I think the test is to compare the data between the 5th and 8th grades and see if there is overall improvement. (I tried to find the relevant data on OSSE but couldn't immediately lay hands on it.) That would tell you whether Latin is managing to remediate the effects of substandard elementary education with its students.
I realize that doesn't address your concerns however about the already-high performer. I know that Latin's teachers try to offer extra projects that will help challenge the advanced learners. My sense is that you can get a lot more G&T-type focus in MoCo or Fairfax county, so your husband is right in that regard. What we like about Latin is the classical curriculum and the small size. We too wrestle with whether to move to one of the excellent suburban systems but worry that our particular kid would not thrive in a huge public school setting.
Anonymous
11/05/2012 14:58
Subject: Re:Deal or Basis for DCs? Advice Needed.
OP, you sound very thoughtful. I applaud you for taking the time to research and discover the best options for your child. However, if your husband doesn't believe in DC Public education then you're fighting a lost cause. When he looks at MoCo he sees a county that has a significantly higher number of Asians. Moreover, it sounds like he believes that a MoCo education is better than a DC education (which I don't necessarily buy into because there are good and bad teachers everywhere but that's and argument for another string). In any case, you put those two factors together, you may as well start packing.
Anonymous
11/05/2012 14:41
Subject: Re:Deal or Basis for DCs? Advice Needed.
My problem with Latin right now is that my Chinese immigrant spouse had a bad reaction to seeing the new location/neighborhood. No doubt Randolph School will look far more inviting once renovated. We also weren't sold on the demographics of the high school - we didn't see any Asian kids among the upperclassmen/women when we visited. Then we visited Blair's math magnet in Silver Spring, where nearly half the kids are of Asian descent. You see the problem I'm having here.
I do, and I think it's insurmountable based on the Chinese immigrants I've known in the DC area. Your husband is, again IME, not going to get past his latent and probably unacknowledged racism. Also, his visceral reaction to patinated, dingy things. [Glassy Tysons Galleria, good. Same exact boutique along M St. with hoody'd loiterers waiting for bus, not as good].
Nothing you say will convince your husband to change his mind, but as your life partner, there's always that chance that he'll acquiesce to your pick of Latin if that's your clear winner. I think it's admirable that your family couches The Problem as being one of "not enough Asian faces" VS. "too many black faces around the new Latin address and in its halls."
Deal has the same exact percentage of "Asian faces" as Latin does. Yet the surrounding neighborhood -- my neighborhood, fwiw -- is a little less scary I know.
Anonymous
11/05/2012 14:09
Subject: Re:Deal or Basis for DCs? Advice Needed.
Hi PPs, original poster, back again. You Latin parents make a compelling case for challenge at your school. Thanks for the list of test questions - most illuminating. My problem with Latin right now is that my Chinese immigrant spouse had a bad reaction to seeing the new location/neighborhood. No doubt Randolph School will look far more inviting once renovated. We also weren't sold on the demographics of the high school - we didn't see any Asian kids among the upperclassmen/women when we visited. Then we visited Blair's math magnet in Silver Spring, where nearly half the kids are of Asian descent. You see the problem I'm having here. I'm the pro stay-in-DC parent while my spouse seems to think it's all a lost cause, mainly over concerns about high school quality (moving for middle school only to have to move again, or making radical career changes to afford privates later, although we like our jobs).
If Latin's curriculum does indeed offer great depth and breadth, and there are so many strong students, as you say, why are nearly 1/4 of the middle school kids failing to test proficient on the DC-CAS? And why no middle school honors classes, other than 7th grade algebra (is that right?), when this is the case? How much of an issue is social promotion?
If Latin's curriculum does indeed offer great depth and breadth, and there are so many strong students, as you say, why are nearly 1/4 of the middle school kids failing to test proficient on the DC-CAS? And why no middle school honors classes, other than 7th grade algebra (is that right?), when this is the case? How much of an issue is social promotion?
Anonymous
11/05/2012 11:27
Subject: Re:Deal or Basis for DCs? Advice Needed.
I second everything 9:21 had to say about Latin's curriculum. We are extremely happy with it. In order to successfully complete that same 6th grade civics class---each student has to pass a test on the US Constitution.
Here is a sample of the essay questions (they were sent home for the students to review and prepare for over the weekend---so I'm not spoiling anything . . .)
1. Aristotle laid out three forms of government in his work Politics: monarchy, aristocracy, and constitutional government. How do you define each of these systems of government and what are the strengths and weaknesses of each?
2. History has shown that influential leaders are remembered and honored with the title of “The Great.” Numerous examples include Ramesses the Great, Darius the Great, Cyrus the Great, and Alexander the Great. Using your knowledge of history, should we honor Julius Caesar with the title of “The Great?”
3. Using your knowledge of history, which war had the greatest influence in western history: The Persian Wars (Greece and Persia) or the Punic Wars (Rome vs. Carthage)?
4. Were Senators Brutus and Cassius right to believe that Caesar was a tyrant? Using your knowledge of history argue FOR or AGAINST the assassination of Julius Caesar
5. Greece is considered to be the foundation and birthplace of democracy in the world. Rome is considered the birthplace of republican government. Using your knowledge of history and civics and assuming you could change the government of the United States, would you choose Spartan Aristocracy, Athenian Democracy, or Roman Republicanism?
I am posting these questions out of curiosity---since this is the only 6th grade curriculum that we know. I would be interested to know what other MS parents at Deal and Basis are seeing. To me Latin seems to be providing challenging work, but I don't have grounds for comparison.
Here is a sample of the essay questions (they were sent home for the students to review and prepare for over the weekend---so I'm not spoiling anything . . .)
1. Aristotle laid out three forms of government in his work Politics: monarchy, aristocracy, and constitutional government. How do you define each of these systems of government and what are the strengths and weaknesses of each?
2. History has shown that influential leaders are remembered and honored with the title of “The Great.” Numerous examples include Ramesses the Great, Darius the Great, Cyrus the Great, and Alexander the Great. Using your knowledge of history, should we honor Julius Caesar with the title of “The Great?”
3. Using your knowledge of history, which war had the greatest influence in western history: The Persian Wars (Greece and Persia) or the Punic Wars (Rome vs. Carthage)?
4. Were Senators Brutus and Cassius right to believe that Caesar was a tyrant? Using your knowledge of history argue FOR or AGAINST the assassination of Julius Caesar
5. Greece is considered to be the foundation and birthplace of democracy in the world. Rome is considered the birthplace of republican government. Using your knowledge of history and civics and assuming you could change the government of the United States, would you choose Spartan Aristocracy, Athenian Democracy, or Roman Republicanism?
I am posting these questions out of curiosity---since this is the only 6th grade curriculum that we know. I would be interested to know what other MS parents at Deal and Basis are seeing. To me Latin seems to be providing challenging work, but I don't have grounds for comparison.
Anonymous
11/05/2012 10:13
Subject: Re:Deal or Basis for DCs? Advice Needed.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: I'm disappointed, but not surprised, to learn that Deal only tracks for math, and will indefinitely from the sounds of it. I say this because the "differentiated learning within the classroom approach" has worked less well for us with each passing year of elementary school as the gap between the kids who struggle (yes, mostly low-SES and AA, but certainly not all) and the advanced kids (yes, mostly white or Asian and high-SES, but certainly not all) grows. My older child read all the Harry Potter books in the 3rd grade, where she sat alongide a few kids who struggled to read chapter books. Since tracking for subjects other than math is almost certainly what it's going to take this particular child to be consistently challenged, it doen't sound like Deal would be good fit. And I can't feel enthusiastic about the sounds of the non-academic facilities at Basis. I'd really like a school with at least a gym and a stage/auditorium.
This. Lord help us.
Just to chime in, not as a booster, but as someone facing the same calculus. Washington Latin is going to have these facilities you desire along with an acre or two of playing fields starting next year. It is a school full of kids who were all reading Harry Potter in third grade and most of whom will be in Algebra I in 7th grade. Besides those really basic points, the curriculum and classical education models are enriching in profound ways. Teachers are asking kids as young as 5th grade to answer deep questions about themselves and the world around them and apply the answers to the real world. The academic.expectations are sky high. My DC in 6th is taking a vociferous class that we all would have taken as college freshman and the kids love it. He is taking an exam today that is three essay questions, a welcome relief from multiple choice. I am highly optimistic that we will be at Latin through high school and if not, I wouldn't want my kid at middle school anywhere else. And, by the way, if you apply in 5th grade, the trend is that every student who applies has been offered a spot by the beginning of the school year.
Also note, original poster, that Washington Latin offers Chinese starting in 8th grade.
Anonymous
11/05/2012 09:59
Subject: Re:Deal or Basis for DCs? Advice Needed.
I agree with "22:11" I’m a parent of a kid in the Algebra II class at Basis and my sense is that the kids in the class are doing generally well. The average grade in the class was shared and was high. Sometimes, some of the kids talk about their grade on the weekly quiz and sometimes my child tells me.
The Algebra II class at Basis shows a commitment to instruction based on ability, even when you have a small number of kids that tested that high (8-9?). From what I can tell, tracking (what Basis calls “Leap”) in math is standard in Basis schools in the 5th grade. According to the Basis Website, Leap starts for the other subjects around the 8th grade. And I’d guess that even the non-Leap classes at Basis might be designed to be much harder than classes in other schools, even good schools. We (Basis parents) will see if they can pull off the Basis model here in DC, but so far so good!
The Algebra II class at Basis shows a commitment to instruction based on ability, even when you have a small number of kids that tested that high (8-9?). From what I can tell, tracking (what Basis calls “Leap”) in math is standard in Basis schools in the 5th grade. According to the Basis Website, Leap starts for the other subjects around the 8th grade. And I’d guess that even the non-Leap classes at Basis might be designed to be much harder than classes in other schools, even good schools. We (Basis parents) will see if they can pull off the Basis model here in DC, but so far so good!