Anonymous
Post 09/27/2015 09:03     Subject: Racial make up in honors vs. non-honors classes
Anonymous wrote:"What resources do middle income families have that lower SES don't ? "

time, transportation and prior education.

"Why are Asians always out of ESOL quicker, surpassing AA and Caucasian test scores quickly and not living generation to generation in poverty?"

More Asian immigrants were either educated or had a business back home i thought given that it's more challenging to immigrate from Asia than Latin America to the US. This puts them in a better position to scramble for what's needed here.


What time? How do immigrant Asian families have more time than Hispanic families?

Transportation system in MCPS is great. Students ride free and many with low SES can get free or deeply discounted fare cards. A used bike is extremely cheap way to get around. Walking is free too.

Prior education is the parents problem. Many Asian woman are not college-educated. Doesn't mean you can't help your child or get resources to help your child to become a better/smarter person than yourself.


Anonymous
Post 09/27/2015 08:56     Subject: Racial make up in honors vs. non-honors classes
If it is all about good preschool then why hasn't Headstart caused dramatic long term gains?
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2015 08:51     Subject: Racial make up in honors vs. non-honors classes
Anonymous wrote:I teach at a "W" cluster MS with a high Asian ESOL population. Most of those kids are from families with high SES, they have electronic translators to use in their mainstream academic classes, and they have private ELL classes after school or on the weekends. They are also less likely to live in a community where they can get by in their native tongue so they are forced to learn English if they want any measure of independence.

I have had experience teaching in high FARMs MS Down County where most ESOL students are from Latin America. Most were poor. They couldn't even afford the paperback Spanish to English dictionaries let alone electronic translators and private ELL lessons. They live in neighborhoods where businesses have Spanish-speaking workers and signage so they can get by in that language outside of school.


You just compared two different SES schools, not races. You can't be poor and live in a W school.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2015 08:31     Subject: Racial make up in honors vs. non-honors classes
I teach at a "W" cluster MS with a high Asian ESOL population. Most of those kids are from families with high SES, they have electronic translators to use in their mainstream academic classes, and they have private ELL classes after school or on the weekends. They are also less likely to live in a community where they can get by in their native tongue so they are forced to learn English if they want any measure of independence.

I have had experience teaching in high FARMs MS Down County where most ESOL students are from Latin America. Most were poor. They couldn't even afford the paperback Spanish to English dictionaries let alone electronic translators and private ELL lessons. They live in neighborhoods where businesses have Spanish-speaking workers and signage so they can get by in that language outside of school.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2015 07:54     Subject: Racial make up in honors vs. non-honors classes
"What resources do middle income families have that lower SES don't ? "

time, transportation and prior education.

"Why are Asians always out of ESOL quicker, surpassing AA and Caucasian test scores quickly and not living generation to generation in poverty?"

More Asian immigrants were either educated or had a business back home i thought given that it's more challenging to immigrate from Asia than Latin America to the US. This puts them in a better position to scramble for what's needed here.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2015 00:30     Subject: Racial make up in honors vs. non-honors classes
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It is much better to be the cool athlete than the "black geek"

Sorry but that is how most Aftican American boys see it. Why leave their friends to go to harder classes with snowflakes when the other classes with my friends are easier?


Is it really as simple as that now? Because when I was in school back in the 90s my mother had to fight tooth and nail with my school's administration to get me placed on the honors/advanced track (there was no testing, it was all teacher recommendation), where yes I was one of the only AA faces.


There are a lot of other people in various races that have to fight for an advanced track too. By parents and students alike. It isn't just a given. You have to get straight A's, do extra credit. Be involved with teachers, interact in class, take initiative, do 100% of HW, etc... Asian families start with this at birth. Why do black people think every hardship is because of their race? When is it going to end.


Look, I know you have an agenda, but your projecting is tiresome - when is that going to end?

First, I was addressing the post that African American children simply choose not to enter an advanced track. Second, I don't think any child should be excluded from educational opportunities simply because they and/or their parents aren't savvy enough to play a political game. Yes, that's how life is in the adult world, but do we really have to start as early as 3rd grade?


It isn't a political agenda. You have to work hard. Go to preschool starting at 2, get workbooks at home, help them to read. Most kids can read by age 3. Stay in contact with teacher's about their needs. Go to more than one 10 minute conference and find out the weaknesses and address them at home. Volunteer in the class and see the social dynamics and if your child is focused or bored. Offer advanced work if your child is bored. Go to the library at least once a week. We went today. I would say 80% of the kids in the library were Asian. Avoid video games and screen time. Offer arts n crafts and books. Talk about nature. It isn't a political agenda. It is called being a parent. So many parents are just ignorant and send them to school and expect the teacher to do ALL of the raising and teaching and then wonder why their kids aren't the smartest or even failing. It is public school. If parents weren't involved in helping their kids, it would really show how little schools truly teach. You have to be the teacher. Parents are teachers too.



Although there are several inaccuracies in your post, I agree with some of it. What you don't seem to acknowledge is that some of what you call being a parent takes time and resources that not every person is fortunate to have.


I'm not the PP, but that is a socioeconomic issue and NOT a race issue. Don't assume the two go hand in hand.


I disagree. I think it is an attitude issue. What resources do middle income families have that lower SES don't ? Same school, same county. This county is full of resources, libraries, free programs and more. It is the attitude at home. What you instill in your kids. If you are complaining, show lack of work ethic, want to spend free time watching TV, the kids will mimic that. Many Asian families come here speaking little English with very little money. Multiple families living under one roof when they first enter the country. Same as Hispanics. So what is the difference? Why are Asians always out of ESOL quicker, surpassing AA and Caucasian test scores quickly and not living generation to generation in poverty? It isn't race. It isn't SES. It is parenting.
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2015 22:10     Subject: Racial make up in honors vs. non-honors classes
Anonymous wrote:I have an African American son who will be starting elementary school next year. Any advice in terms of ideal an ideal elementary schools in MC that offer a great education and some diversity? We heard that North Chevy Chase is great but starts in grade 3?
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2015 19:43     Subject: Racial make up in honors vs. non-honors classes
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It is much better to be the cool athlete than the "black geek"

Sorry but that is how most Aftican American boys see it. Why leave their friends to go to harder classes with snowflakes when the other classes with my friends are easier?


Is it really as simple as that now? Because when I was in school back in the 90s my mother had to fight tooth and nail with my school's administration to get me placed on the honors/advanced track (there was no testing, it was all teacher recommendation), where yes I was one of the only AA faces.


There are a lot of other people in various races that have to fight for an advanced track too. By parents and students alike. It isn't just a given. You have to get straight A's, do extra credit. Be involved with teachers, interact in class, take initiative, do 100% of HW, etc... Asian families start with this at birth. Why do black people think every hardship is because of their race? When is it going to end.


Look, I know you have an agenda, but your projecting is tiresome - when is that going to end?

First, I was addressing the post that African American children simply choose not to enter an advanced track. Second, I don't think any child should be excluded from educational opportunities simply because they and/or their parents aren't savvy enough to play a political game. Yes, that's how life is in the adult world, but do we really have to start as early as 3rd grade?


It isn't a political agenda. You have to work hard. Go to preschool starting at 2, get workbooks at home, help them to read. Most kids can read by age 3. Stay in contact with teacher's about their needs. Go to more than one 10 minute conference and find out the weaknesses and address them at home. Volunteer in the class and see the social dynamics and if your child is focused or bored. Offer advanced work if your child is bored. Go to the library at least once a week. We went today. I would say 80% of the kids in the library were Asian. Avoid video games and screen time. Offer arts n crafts and books. Talk about nature. It isn't a political agenda. It is called being a parent. So many parents are just ignorant and send them to school and expect the teacher to do ALL of the raising and teaching and then wonder why their kids aren't the smartest or even failing. It is public school. If parents weren't involved in helping their kids, it would really show how little schools truly teach. You have to be the teacher. Parents are teachers too.



Although there are several inaccuracies in your post, I agree with some of it. What you don't seem to acknowledge is that some of what you call being a parent takes time and resources that not every person is fortunate to have.


I'm not the PP, but that is a socioeconomic issue and NOT a race issue. Don't assume the two go hand in hand.
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2015 19:42     Subject: Racial make up in honors vs. non-honors classes
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm AA, attended another MD school district and experienced the same thing. I love the diversity of MoCo. However, I don't think public school middle school and onwards will work for DC and even my niece. I don't want them to go through the same experiences that I had. I really could have used the support of my peers who were like me, but sadly there weren't many.


What do you mean peers like you? You mean that have the same skin color as you? That doesn't define you and that is the problem with why African Americans can not move ahead. They are guilted into thinking they are turning their backs on "their people" by moving ahead of the majority of them. Succeeding in school and life. The peer pressure to stay down with them is very high in middle and high school.

The peers like you are the ones that are similar to your feelings, your abilities, your brain, and your heart. Not your outward appearance. That is a lesson that everyone of every race and culture needs to realize. It would make for a much better society.


+1 to this! This is EXACTLY what I hope to instill in my kids.

I'm mixed race, and really don't care whether my kids' friends are black/brown/white/green. I've always encouraged them to seek out friends who treat them well, are kind, motivated, etc. Find people who are supportive and that's a good lesson to carry with you as you move forward in life. Just as you don't want people to make assumptions about your kid based on race - don't make assumptions about the other kids in his class based on their race. They might turn out to have similar interests and turn out to be great friends. If they are in similar classes, guess what - they ARE HIS peers. And, it's completely fine if they are not AA.

OP, if you're AA, I'm assuming you have AA friends and family members that your kids interact with. So what if the kids at school in his classes are a different race? Your kid will be fine. There's no guarantee that your kid will get a job working with just AA people. And you can still fine AA role models from your kid within your family and friend circle.
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2015 18:56     Subject: Racial make up in honors vs. non-honors classes
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It is much better to be the cool athlete than the "black geek"

Sorry but that is how most Aftican American boys see it. Why leave their friends to go to harder classes with snowflakes when the other classes with my friends are easier?


Is it really as simple as that now? Because when I was in school back in the 90s my mother had to fight tooth and nail with my school's administration to get me placed on the honors/advanced track (there was no testing, it was all teacher recommendation), where yes I was one of the only AA faces.


There are a lot of other people in various races that have to fight for an advanced track too. By parents and students alike. It isn't just a given. You have to get straight A's, do extra credit. Be involved with teachers, interact in class, take initiative, do 100% of HW, etc... Asian families start with this at birth. Why do black people think every hardship is because of their race? When is it going to end.


Look, I know you have an agenda, but your projecting is tiresome - when is that going to end?

First, I was addressing the post that African American children simply choose not to enter an advanced track. Second, I don't think any child should be excluded from educational opportunities simply because they and/or their parents aren't savvy enough to play a political game. Yes, that's how life is in the adult world, but do we really have to start as early as 3rd grade?


It isn't a political agenda. You have to work hard. Go to preschool starting at 2, get workbooks at home, help them to read. Most kids can read by age 3. Stay in contact with teacher's about their needs. Go to more than one 10 minute conference and find out the weaknesses and address them at home. Volunteer in the class and see the social dynamics and if your child is focused or bored. Offer advanced work if your child is bored. Go to the library at least once a week. We went today. I would say 80% of the kids in the library were Asian. Avoid video games and screen time. Offer arts n crafts and books. Talk about nature. It isn't a political agenda. It is called being a parent. So many parents are just ignorant and send them to school and expect the teacher to do ALL of the raising and teaching and then wonder why their kids aren't the smartest or even failing. It is public school. If parents weren't involved in helping their kids, it would really show how little schools truly teach. You have to be the teacher. Parents are teachers too.



Although there are several inaccuracies in your post, I agree with some of it. What you don't seem to acknowledge is that some of what you call being a parent takes time and resources that not every person is fortunate to have.
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2015 18:53     Subject: Re:Racial make up in honors vs. non-honors classes
Unfortunately, MCPS doesn't provide a strong enough foundation in elementary for later academic success. As the parent of two magnet students who has talked to many other parents over the years I'm convinced that MCPS owes much of its reputation to a well-educated population that supplements their children's education either at home or at one of the many tutoring companies around here. I've had to do a lot more education at home than I ever imagined, and it wasn't to get ahead, but to fill the gaps that I considered necessary for a solod education.

Here's some of what children need:

Being taught to read with phonics. This way, once they learn to read they know how to read. Not just at a grade level because they know the sight words for that level, but if they understand a word in spoken language, then they will be able to read it.

Direct, systematic instruction in grammar.

Direct instruction in handwriting.

The ability to do basic math WITHOUT a calculator. If there is one commonality I've found in magnet families it's that many of us have restricted calculator use for homework.

My children went through elementary before curriculum 2.0, but as near as I can tell the curriculum is still inadequate and worse hidden. When my kids were young a parent either had to go the school library or the Carver administration building to look at the curriculum on site. When they switched to a computerized system I asked how parents were supposed to access the curriculum and was told that they hadn't considered the issue, bit perhaps it could be included in a later version (which as far as I know hasn't happened yet). Other school systems with similar curriculum have had parents rally and demand new textbooks. However, without textbooks or anything specific to review all we have are the very general course outlines and the reassurance that "MCPS is one of the best school systems in the nation".
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2015 18:51     Subject: Racial make up in honors vs. non-honors classes
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It is much better to be the cool athlete than the "black geek"

Sorry but that is how most Aftican American boys see it. Why leave their friends to go to harder classes with snowflakes when the other classes with my friends are easier?


Is it really as simple as that now? Because when I was in school back in the 90s my mother had to fight tooth and nail with my school's administration to get me placed on the honors/advanced track (there was no testing, it was all teacher recommendation), where yes I was one of the only AA faces.


There are a lot of other people in various races that have to fight for an advanced track too. By parents and students alike. It isn't just a given. You have to get straight A's, do extra credit. Be involved with teachers, interact in class, take initiative, do 100% of HW, etc... Asian families start with this at birth. Why do black people think every hardship is because of their race? When is it going to end.


Look, I know you have an agenda, but your projecting is tiresome - when is that going to end?

First, I was addressing the post that African American children simply choose not to enter an advanced track. Second, I don't think any child should be excluded from educational opportunities simply because they and/or their parents aren't savvy enough to play a political game. Yes, that's how life is in the adult world, but do we really have to start as early as 3rd grade?


It isn't a political agenda. You have to work hard. Go to preschool starting at 2, get workbooks at home, help them to read. Most kids can read by age 3. Stay in contact with teacher's about their needs. Go to more than one 10 minute conference and find out the weaknesses and address them at home. Volunteer in the class and see the social dynamics and if your child is focused or bored. Offer advanced work if your child is bored. Go to the library at least once a week. We went today. I would say 80% of the kids in the library were Asian. Avoid video games and screen time. Offer arts n crafts and books. Talk about nature. It isn't a political agenda. It is called being a parent. So many parents are just ignorant and send them to school and expect the teacher to do ALL of the raising and teaching and then wonder why their kids aren't the smartest or even failing. It is public school. If parents weren't involved in helping their kids, it would really show how little schools truly teach. You have to be the teacher. Parents are teachers too.



I agree. I sent my daughter to a cheap co-op preschool and most of the parents were Asian that lived in small apartments and didn't have a lot of money. But they were diligent in teaching their kids. They can consistently come into America from multiple Asian countries as poor immigrants and rise above poverty within one generation. Hispanic and African American families can not and it has everything to do with the value of education.
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2015 18:47     Subject: Racial make up in honors vs. non-honors classes
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm AA, attended another MD school district and experienced the same thing. I love the diversity of MoCo. However, I don't think public school middle school and onwards will work for DC and even my niece. I don't want them to go through the same experiences that I had. I really could have used the support of my peers who were like me, but sadly there weren't many.


What do you mean peers like you? You mean that have the same skin color as you? That doesn't define you and that is the problem with why African Americans can not move ahead. They are guilted into thinking they are turning their backs on "their people" by moving ahead of the majority of them. Succeeding in school and life. The peer pressure to stay down with them is very high in middle and high school.

The peers like you are the ones that are similar to your feelings, your abilities, your brain, and your heart. Not your outward appearance. That is a lesson that everyone of every race and culture needs to realize. It would make for a much better society.


From a cultural and socioeconomic perspective, it was difficult to relate to others. I felt out of place because I listened to different music and watched different shows at home versus my peers. My parents never were married and there wasn't a custody arrangement, so my mom basically raised me and my dad only saw me every few months. Growing up most of the kids were of a higher income bracket and had both parents around. So I felt like I had to "assimilate" for the lack of a better word (and slightly fib tidbits of my life) in order to fit in. I struggled during that time because of this and I didn't have any role models that came from a similar background. It was tough, but I had teachers on my side (who were white btw, not that it matters) who saw my potential and kept pushing me to succeed.
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2015 18:14     Subject: Racial make up in honors vs. non-honors classes
Anonymous wrote:I'm AA, attended another MD school district and experienced the same thing. I love the diversity of MoCo. However, I don't think public school middle school and onwards will work for DC and even my niece. I don't want them to go through the same experiences that I had. I really could have used the support of my peers who were like me, but sadly there weren't many.


What do you mean peers like you? You mean that have the same skin color as you? That doesn't define you and that is the problem with why African Americans can not move ahead. They are guilted into thinking they are turning their backs on "their people" by moving ahead of the majority of them. Succeeding in school and life. The peer pressure to stay down with them is very high in middle and high school.

The peers like you are the ones that are similar to your feelings, your abilities, your brain, and your heart. Not your outward appearance. That is a lesson that everyone of every race and culture needs to realize. It would make for a much better society.
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2015 18:09     Subject: Racial make up in honors vs. non-honors classes
Anonymous wrote:In the early days of the Industrial Revolution the United States Government wanted to know why Jewish and Chinese immigrant children were educationally outpacing their Irish and Italian counterparts. These four ethnic groups were on par financially and equally endured the racist disdain of the majority. the determining factor was the value placed on education by the particular ethnic group as a whole. It is the same today. If the culture in which you live values education it will be the priority. The key to closing the educational gap lies in changing cultural priorities not changing education. If an individual wants to improve their station in life they are going to do so by whatever means they feel is the most effective for their particular situation. If talent is respected more than intellect, in my sphere, I will put my energy into cultivating whatever talent I may possess and exploit it to whatever advantage gains that respect. likewise, for the adverse.


I think it is more than just the cultural value on education. Groups that place a cultural value on education do more education in every day life....they sit and read with their children, they pass on interesting rules and tricks about reading and math, they take life opportunities to teach math, likely because that is how their parents interacted with them. There are more opportunities to learn, and more reinforcement happening at home. Children who come from homes (regardless of race or socioeconomic status) that do not engage in the dynamic learning are at a distinct disadvantage.