Anonymous wrote:

If you think teachers only work 7-8 hours a day you're nuts.

So teachers have to do lesson plans and grade work at home, BFD. I don't know any professionals that don't take work home. If they want to be treated as professionals they need to quit whining when they are expected to act like professionals.

I don't think the teachers are arguing that they shouldn't have to take work home. I think the poster was demonstrating -- and you haven't posted anything to the contrary -- that it is inaccurate to state that teachers only work 7-8 hours per day.

If you think teachers only work 7-8 hours a day you're nuts.

So teachers have to do lesson plans and grade work at home, BFD. I don't know any professionals that don't take work home. If they want to be treated as professionals they need to quit whining when they are expected to act like professionals.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But aren't they more qualified?
Shouldn't a teacher with 10yrs experience and a M.Ed. get paid more than a teacher 2yrs out of undergrad?

People with better qualifications and more experience get paid more in the private sector, no? Why should it be different when teaching? I don't think it should be only based on years/degrees, but to not take either into account at all seems ridiculous.

But why should a newly minted teacher with two masters make more than a teacher who has been teaching for 5 years with excellent reviews and no masters? No, that isn't how the private sector works.

The military works that way.

A newly minted officer makes more money than an enlisted person who has been in the military for years.

I don't get this. Most school districts pay plans take both the degree and years of experience into account.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But aren't they more qualified?
Shouldn't a teacher with 10yrs experience and a M.Ed. get paid more than a teacher 2yrs out of undergrad?

People with better qualifications and more experience get paid more in the private sector, no? Why should it be different when teaching? I don't think it should be only based on years/degrees, but to not take either into account at all seems ridiculous.

But why should a newly minted teacher with two masters make more than a teacher who has been teaching for 5 years with excellent reviews and no masters? No, that isn't how the private sector works.

The military works that way.

A newly minted officer makes more money than an enlisted person who has been in the military for years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:then find a way to measure improvement if the baseline is horrible. bottom line, it makes no sense for taxpayers to pay for step raises year after year for bad teachers. just because you are a 25 year cynical veteran of a dysfunctional school system does not mean you are any good. I'd rather keep young teachers for short 5-year terms before they burn out.

TEACHER UNIONS ARE THE ENEMY! Come on, they are. You know it, I know it. Public education is crippling for these inner cities kids. The families need more choices, and the schools need more competition.

This is the exact attitude that is crippling schools. Schools, especially struggling ones, need continuity and support, not new teachers who stay a few years and leave burned out. Believe me, you do not walk into a school as an awesome teacher your first year-- or, many don't. It takes a few years to build up your strength, knowledge and teaching style. I understand some of the gripes with this situation, but this is a very dangerous attitude.

-A (young) public school teacher (who does it because she loves it)

Normally a wingnut cannot help but blame a poor person for their situation. "Generational poverty", blah blah blah blah. All day and all night. UNLESS there is a bigger bogeyman. And in this case, it's the big bad union. Now magically a child's performance is not the result of his ambition or his family, but the union.

Wingnuts are such hypocrites.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not understand the lack of sympathy for their cause. How are unions bad? Why are teachers not the most highly paid professionals?

the union is bad because they are a big factor in why these kids are not getting properly educated. #1.

they work 10 months a year and 7-8 hours a day. #2.

their benefits are incredible. #3

my salary has gone down 15% in the last 3 years. look around. #4.

If you think teachers only work 7-8 hours a day you're nuts.

Anonymous wrote:then find a way to measure improvement if the baseline is horrible. bottom line, it makes no sense for taxpayers to pay for step raises year after year for bad teachers. just because you are a 25 year cynical veteran of a dysfunctional school system does not mean you are any good. I'd rather keep young teachers for short 5-year terms before they burn out.

TEACHER UNIONS ARE THE ENEMY! Come on, they are. You know it, I know it. Public education is crippling for these inner cities kids. The families need more choices, and the schools need more competition.

This is the exact attitude that is crippling schools. Schools, especially struggling ones, need continuity and support, not new teachers who stay a few years and leave burned out. Believe me, you do not walk into a school as an awesome teacher your first year-- or, many don't. It takes a few years to build up your strength, knowledge and teaching style. I understand some of the gripes with this situation, but this is a very dangerous attitude.

-A (young) public school teacher (who does it because she loves it)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unbelievable how much American culture hates education.

I hate entitled groups who bully by punishing. If 100% of the teachers in my school were evaluated as the highest performing and the dropout/illiteracy rate was not so abysmal and embarrassing to our country, I would gladly redirect my charitable giving toward a bonus pool for teachers. The idea of tenure for k-12 education is a ridiculous concept and should never ever have been adopted. Too many concessions for too long and we remain in a mess.

The issue in Chicago is not about tenure. It is about the pay scale. And the reason that performance pay is difficult to administer is that it's extremely difficult to demonstrate whether performance is the result of the class or the teacher. And it means that the best teachers will no longer take on the tougher assignments but cherry pick the easier ones. In business that kind of problem happens all the time. For example, in utilities you want your best crew working on the toughest line breaks But if you measure them on time to repair, it will kill their performance scores. You counter by attempting to adjust for difficulty, but you can't quantify it. So the crew starts complaining that the weaker crews don't do the tough jobs, and then you have to spread the work around so you don't drive them off. And then the customer has a longer power or phone outage.

No one has cracked the performance testing dilemma. The best teacher might make very limited progress in a classroom with troubled kids. In fact, if she does her job well enough she might actually cause some of them to not drop out, further lowering her score. They can add in year to year statistics for the same cohort and it still doesn't correct the problem. In the end, there are 30 or so people involved in those test scores, and most of them don't have compensation riding on the outcome. They are just waiting for the bell to ring so they can leave.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unbelievable how much American culture hates education.

I hate entitled groups who bully by punishing. If 100% of the teachers in my school were evaluated as the highest performing and the dropout/illiteracy rate was not so abysmal and embarrassing to our country, I would gladly redirect my charitable giving toward a bonus pool for teachers. The idea of tenure for k-12 education is a ridiculous concept and should never ever have been adopted. Too many concessions for too long and we remain in a mess.

+1

Anonymous wrote:Unbelievable how much American culture hates education.

I hate entitled groups who bully by punishing. If 100% of the teachers in my school were evaluated as the highest performing and the dropout/illiteracy rate was not so abysmal and embarrassing to our country, I would gladly redirect my charitable giving toward a bonus pool for teachers. The idea of tenure for k-12 education is a ridiculous concept and should never ever have been adopted. Too many concessions for too long and we remain in a mess.

Anonymous wrote:

Something has got to be done about special education costs. They really are astronomical, and at the expense of other students. How much does it cost to keep a very developmentally delayed student in school till they're 21, with aides for toileting and eating? Is this fair to the other students!

Sure. Let's kick out the very developmentally delayed, and the stupid (if they're just going into the trades they certainly don't need high school), and maybe the black and Latino kids, because they're just going to grow up to join gangs, so that's a waste.. And... And... More room for snowflake, then.

Signed, someone who pays a hefty sum for my dev delayed kid to be in private school, leaving my tax dollars on the table for your little snowflake.

Calm down, huffy. Does your child have developmental delays, or is he severely retarded, a phrase I was attempting to avoid? Because my precious blade of grass deserves as much education as she can get - as do all the other blades of grass who are having their educations shortchanged in order to pay for what amounts to expense play group.

Unbelievable how much American culture hates education.

I don't understand what the problem is.

The average elementary school salary in Fairfax County VA is $78,800 according to this document:

http://www.fairfaxcountyeda.org/sites/default/files/pdf/wages.pdf

So are we paying our own teachers too much, or do we think that Chicago kids don't deserve the same teachers?

It is 76K per 9.5 months, not per year

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Paid maternity leave. That's one of the "outlandish" things the Chicago teachers want. Paid maternity leave.

Caps on class sizes. I have yet to meet a parent who is coolwith their child being ina classroom with 39 other students. I back the teachers on this one.

The current classroom cap in Chicago is 31 kids, but everyone admits that the city goes over that limit. 40 isn't typical.

But let's use your number of 40 kids.

The teachers want some of the highest pay in the country, and they want a 16% increase in pay, but the school district is broke. They they also want caps on class sizes. It seems to me that the best way to lower the class sizes would be to hire more teachers.

Average teacher salary (and I know there are benefits costs and other things) in chicago is $71K.

Lets say you have a group of schools with 100 teachers with each one making $71,000 having 40 students...so 4000 students total. That's $7,100,000 in salary costs.

If we want to take the class sizes down to no more than 30 kids in a class...that requires 134 teachers. You could make that work on the same salary costs by paying the teachers $52,985 each.

Lets compare that to a national average teacher salary of $56,069....that would give you 126 teachers...so only 32 kids in a class vs 40.

It's not in the teacher's interest to lower the salaries, but it is clearly in the interests of the students, to stop the pay raises, lower salaries and hire more teachers.

I m not a teacher, but lady you are out of your freaking mind. What math or science teacher would work in a Chicago public school for $56k. That person would take their talent somewhere else. Do you know what the COL is like in Chicago. You cannot compare Chicago salaries to Tallahassee salaries. Are you also one of the same posters who always write a post on DCUM about the tax rate in DC should be lower than in other areas because the COL is so high.

So give the school district the ability to pay the science and math teachers more. But I just flat out don't believe that most teacher positions in Chicago can't be filled by qualified teachers for much much less than the current salary.