No turnover at Murch this year. Not sure what the PP was referring to.

Bump . Who?

who?

more turnover?

For those who keep saying their school does not teach to the tests, tests spell out specifically when things are taught, and for how long classes spend on lessons. Its focus decides what gets taught and what does not get taught. If kids don't "get it" during the alloted time things keep on moving forward to get ready for the next tests. Writing for example is taught only in the form that is asked for on the tests. If my job depended on it, I would too. This creates a non-organic structure to school and learning. All schools that have high stakes tests teach to the test, whether they say so or not. I don't mind teacher-made tests, or dibels by teachers to know what needs to be taught next and to whom, but to say any teacher teaching in public any school does not teach to the test is simply untrue.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have yet to be in a school which teaches to the test.

what does 'not teaching to the test' look like?

I have been asking the same question. maybe this. I took the bar in my home country and the NY bar. in my home country, the bar consists of three written tests and one oral examination. the three written tests consist of the drafting of one legal opinion on a given civil law matter, one legal opinion on a given criminal law matter, and of a pleading based on a matter given to the candidates. each written test takes 8 hours. in the oral examination the candicate seats before a group of examiners (attorneys and judges) and is asked questions on all the subjects (civil law, criminal law, commercial law and so on). to pass, you need to know all these subject from A to Z, , so you need to have studied them well during law school, and again during the mandated two years of law practice, there is no studying for the test. if you know the law, 8 hours to draft the opinion is plenty of time. I took the NY bar and definitely studied for the test. I did not go to law school here, so some of the subjects (criminal law, real estate law...)I have never studied them before. I took the BarBri course, learned the basics and trained to pass the test, doing exercises, just for the purpose of passing. how many multiple choices in 30 minutes and so on. I did pass, the first time. do I know criminal law? no. but I passed the criminal law part of the test great.
I started being concerned when my 1st grade teacher told me that my DD is a little behind in reading and math. for reading, she needed to be at X words per minute and she was only reading Y words per minute. now, I always loved reding and read my first book in 2 grade (and with book I mean 250 pages, single spaced, no images) and I have never heard in my entire ES experience how (or later) many words per minute I was supposed to be reading. to help her in math I was told to time her how many additions and subtractions she could do in 5 minutes. again, I was very good in math and loved it, and not a single time how many things per minute I could do was relevant. I was thought to do addition and subtractions, and everything else, and the more I learned, the faster I was and the more I wanted to learn. but I never felt the time pressure of the 5 minute-test. but here tests are done like that, so kids need to learn. I start having the impression that kids need to do well in these stupid tests for the school's sake and the teachers' sake (see IMPACT), so the kids tend to be trained to face and pass these tests, as I did with the NY bar, taking time away from really learnign the subjects. my concerns is also that all these timed tests may make kids hate learning (I would have hated reading and math if the accent was on how many words ofr minute and how many math things in 5 minutes). I wonder if kids should have not only less tests, but also different types of tests . I confess I know nothing about this subject,so I will try to educate myself, and I would appreciate any input from more knowledgeable parents

Not many people can see what 'not teaching to the test' looks like, as it rarely happens.
Some schools use "Paced Interim Assessment" (PIA); it is administered 5x/year in grades 2-10 in participating schools.
ANet is administered 4x/year in about 1/3 of schools, in grades 3-8.
DIBELS, for grades k-2/3 (?--not sure of grade levels) is administered 2-3x/year, usually by classroom teacher, one-on-one. This information is available on the DCPS website (except DIBELS).
All of these tests mean less instructional time; as noted above, DIBELS can mean the teacher is out of the classroom. The data supplied by test results are supposed to inform teaching until the next test administration. All of these tests are meant to prepare students for the DC-CAS--this is how the entire system is judged and evaluated.

great question 16:06!

Anonymous wrote:We have yet to be in a school which teaches to the test.

what does 'not teaching to the test' look like?

We have yet to be in a school which teaches to the test- three states, two private and three DCPS schools (one charter). Perhaps we have chosen correctly in schools but we just haven't seen it. Private schools definitely do testing. Of course they dont do DCCAS (or any other mandated public school test-- not an idiot here) but they definitely do testing on each child (similar to dibbles if not dibbles) and comprehensive testing especially in the older children.

Again, I don't know what the answer is. You can say research shows _______ but research shows the exact opposite also. Comprehensive testing isn't new. Now mandating it and tying it to school performance is.

Anonymous wrote: Honestly, parents find it more stressful than kids.

It's not an issue of whether or not it stresses out the kids or not. The issue is that it's not a reliable measure as the past parent said, it's costly, time consuming and it's making teachers teach to the test. It's affecting the quality of education our kids are getting. We are a highly educated and outspoken parent population who speaks up for our kids and can make earth and water move, why is this issue not front and center is beyond me.

Anonymous wrote:The tests are mandated. I am not sure how Murch, or any specific school is supposed to get out of them. Even private schools do testing. Honestly, parents find it more stressful than kids.

Because very few private schools accept public funds, they are not required to comply with federal and state rules and reguations regading what is taught. In other words, they do not have to teach to the test. Whether it's stressful or not, that should not come into play when deciding if they are to be done. I agree with the person who said it's a huge waste of time. Money too for that matter. As far as them being 'mandated', these are our kids and our public funds and studies show they are not reliable when attached to teacher evaluation, so we should just keep doing them because they are mandated?

who is attacking? I think we all here know the school itself has no say.

I should have mentioned that I am with you on the over testing thing though. While I think Murch does an excellent job of managing what is mandated of them I wish they could get out of it. Also, as your child gets older you will see that Murch doesn't teach to the test at all. My in need of support mathers/readers always do really well on the DC CAS because Murch is teaching above the level, across the board, of what is expected on the DC CAS.

The tests are mandated. I am not sure how Murch, or any specific school is supposed to get out of them. Even private schools do testing. About DC CAS at Murch it is not everyday, two hours a day for two weeks. There are four sections so while the tests runs for two weeks that is only to accommodate all the classrooms which have to take them. Each class only spends a short time over 4 days (never back to back either) taking a different section. To the PP who said that, as your child gets older you will play a big role in how "stressful" it is for your child. My kids aren't stressed by them. No more than I was stressed for my Iowa Test of basic Skills each year growing up. You know your child. If testing is stressful then you need to help your child because tests are absolutely everywhere in life. A good skill for children to have Is the ability to lower their stress level themselves.

I do know the younger kids were told to remain quiet in the halls those days -- which is actually normal but other than that they went outside and had recess. I am not sure where you got the idea that didn't happen.

Plus my older kids (I have three who tested last year) love testing days. We go and get new books which they take with them. If they finish early they get to read their new book. It is one of the ways I have figured out to help my kids not be stressed by it. Honestly, parents find it more stressful than kids.