Anonymous wrote:+1 to the previous poster. I've read this thread and wondered about all these scenerios where everyone sitting around the table is a team with the child's best interest at heart. For everyone I know who has gone through the IEP process, there is a lot of fighting over whether the child can get sevices.

I've had excellent experiences with our school's IEP process. It was, in fact, a team of people sitting around talking about what would be best for this child and what is in his best interest. When my child was booted from aftercare for an ASD meltdown, we had a great meeting with the IEP team about what it would take to keep this child in aftercare. They overruled the head of the aftercare team and worked something out that would keep him there so I could continue to work.

My school's IEP team has been absolutely wonderful.

Anonymous wrote:

PPs who say that teachers should be involved in suggesting meds or suggesting alterations to meds are smoking crack. Teachers are not doctors. Besides the fact that it seems to run counter to the intent of the federal provision, it probably also exposes the individual teacher and the school system to some kind of liability if med changes are suggested and something goes wrong.

I've not seen anyone ay that teachers should be involved in suggesting medication or suggesting alterations. What I've seen repeatedly is that teachers are excellent reporters of behaviors and symptoms that may lead parents to adjust medications. You're reading far too much into what people are writing.

No one has suggested that the teacher make the decision or make the change. The teacher is part of the team, though, and has to deal with the little darlings and should have input into discussions of how the medication is working.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's an innocent question. A lot of parents want the school to know if their child is on medication. A teacher can observe how well a dosing schedule is working for a child and may have suggestions for a different dosing schedule that works better. They also should know about medications in case of a medical emergency.

A teacher is not qualified to be offering opinions as to dosing schedule of any kind of medicine. Medication is to be prescribed by a doctor and monitored by the doctor or pharmacist. I would be highly annoyed if a teacher had comments as to my child's medication schedule. It is none of her business.

Now, if the teacher wants to provide me with objective feedback -- "You child is falling asleep every day just before linch -- thought you should know" that's just fine. Then it is up to me to determine if my child's allergy medicines need to be tweaked, for example. But I would NOT want a teacher suggesting changes to medications.

It's absolutely the teacher's business if the dosing schedule isn't working well. She/he has to cope with the little darlings in class when it isn't working well. It's not the teacher's decision to make changes, but the teacher should have input into whether something is working or not. Ie. "Your child is falling asleep." or "Your child concentrates poorly after lunch." or "Your child is really distractable at 2:30."

Anonymous wrote:I was very forthcoming with my son's school regarding his medications and outside evaluations by doctors. I started to become more guarded about what I shared once his medications were becoming more important to the school than what he needed in the classroom. Multiple people would ask him "did you take your medicine today?" any time he was not 100% compliant with their expectations.

We had this experience (from the principal) and "maybe you should try more medication mom."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you are missing the point, PP. Teachers are the experts in classroom behavior. School is the place where students tend to exhibit the most symptoms related to anxiety disorders. Teacher reports are typically requested by doctors so that know how the student is doing in all arenas.

Exactly--and so the teachers should provide reports on classroom behavior. That is independent of knowing about medication; a teacher's knowledge or not of medication is irrelevant to behavioral reports.

X1000

NP here but I've never had an md ask for my child's teacher's impressions of anything. As if.

Pp's who talk about the importance of sharing the info with the whole team, and insisting everyone in the initial IEP meeting (and that can be a lot of people) has the students' best interests at heart, please share the name of the school so I can move my dc to that district.

Then you should get another doctor because he should be using the Vanderbilt/Conners Teachers Report form to learn what behaviors/symptoms the teachers are seeing. An ADHD diagnosis requires impairment across multiple environments. Home and school are the two main ones. Both our general pd and dev ped ask that we have the teachers fill out the forms before our appointments so they can see how the symptoms change over time. The teachers’ input is very important in diagnosis and medication maintenance.

Also, no one has said that the IEP team has the student’s best interests at heart. What people have said is that when a child is taking medication, the teachers want the child to have the right dose/medication/time as the parents do. Big difference.

I was very forthcoming with my son's school regarding his medications and outside evaluations by doctors. I started to become more guarded about what I shared once his medications were becoming more important to the school than what he needed in the classroom. Multiple people would ask him "did you take your medicine today?" any time he was not 100% compliant with their expectations.

PPs who say that teachers should be involved in suggesting meds or suggesting alterations to meds are smoking crack. Teachers are not doctors. Besides the fact that it seems to run counter to the intent of the federal provision, it probably also exposes the individual teacher and the school system to some kind of liability if med changes are suggested and something goes wrong.

I've not seen anyone ay that teachers should be involved in suggesting medication or suggesting alterations. What I've seen repeatedly is that teachers are excellent reporters of behaviors and symptoms that may lead parents to adjust medications. You're reading far too much into what people are writing.

It's quite clear that this section arose from problems that parents experienced with schools getting involved in the medication decision and that Congress decided to put a stop to that. Perhaps they didn't legislate every linquistic variation of possible ways of this, but the intent seems clear to me -- schools should stay out of decisions to medicate. See the10/22/07 response to the Inhofe letter to DoE, which says in part, "In your letter, you indicate that it was brought to your attention that “there were some cases where schools were acting as physicians or psychologists by strongly suggesting that children with behavioral problems be put immediately on some form of psychotropic drugs.”

The statute says they can't require her to medicate the child, tell her to medicate the child, or advise her to medicate the child. They haven't done either of those things. They're asking her to tell them what she and her family decided in this regard. Schools make this request every time they give you a form from the nurse's office to fill out that asks you to list your child's medications. They also didn't tell her that she was legally obligated to answer the question (although from the post they certainly implied she was not being a team player). They're not threatening to withhold anything from her if she doesn't answer. Although you can certainly raise a legal argument based on the statutory section, it doesn't answer the question of whether the school did anything legally inappropriate by making the inquiry, which OP claims was one of two components of her inquiry here. There is a 2007 Washington District Court case that held that a behavior plan that stated that a student was required to take a prescription medication at school that he had already been prescribed and was taking at home did not violate section 1412(a)(25) because it wasn't requiring him to "obtain a prescrption." While I don't agree with that decision, I don't think it is at all clear that the statute provides that it is legally inappropriate to inquire what the parents themselves have already decided.
I agree that she should practice a more neutral non-responsive response if she doesn't want to answer in the future.

Anonymous wrote:

Hi OP --

Please see the DOE's website on IDEA -- idea.ed.gov

The more specific link is here

http://idea.ed.gov/explore/view/p/,root,regs,300,B,300%252E174,

For the Code of Federal Regulation 34 CFR 300.174

Sec. 300.174 Prohibition on mandatory medication.

(a) General. The SEA must prohibit State and LEA personnel from requiring parents to obtain a prescription for substances identified under schedules I, II, III, IV, or V in section 202(c) of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 812(c)) for a child as a condition of attending school, receiving an evaluation under Sec. Sec. 300.300 through 300.311, or receiving services under this part.

(b) Rule of construction. Nothing in paragraph (a) of this section shall be construed to create a Federal prohibition against teachers and other school personnel consulting or sharing classroom-based observations with parents or guardians regarding a student's academic and functional performance, or behavior in the classroom or school, or regarding the need for evaluation for special education or related services under Sec. 300.111 (related to child find).

(Authority: 20 U.S.C. 1412(a)(25))


Notice that the provision is written so it applies to certain classes of medication -- not diagnoses. It covers all prescription drugs. Your child can't be forced to take a prescription drug as a condition of attendance, evaluation or receiving services.

While the provision doesn't technically prohibits a school from asking about medications, it pretty much implies that they shouldn't (because as soon as they start asking, they run the risk of someone saying that felt pressured or required to medicate as a result of the conversation). And it only goes so far as to clarify that the prohibition doesn't prevent teachers from providing information about function and academic behavior, but not so far as to say schools can ask about but not require meds.

I don't view this section as on-point to the question OP asked. It doesn't prohibit the school from asking about whether the parent has elected to have the child on medications, it simply says the school can't require the child to take them. The OP really needs to consult with an attorney specializing in this area if what she is looking for is legal advice on this issue - although since she already answered the question, albeit unhappily, it is not entirely clear to me what would be gained.

I disagree. It is quite on point, although doesn't use the exact situation in OP's initial post (i.e. can the school "require me to disclose"). It's quite clear that this section arose from problems that parents experienced with schools getting involved in the medication decision and that Congress decided to put a stop to that. Perhaps they didn't legislate every linquistic variation of possible ways of this, but the intent seems clear to me -- schools should stay out of decisions to medicate. See the10/22/07 response to the Inhofe letter to DoE, which says in part, "In your letter, you indicate that it was brought to your attention that “there were some cases where schools were acting as physicians or psychologists by strongly suggesting that children with behavioral problems be put immediately on some form of psychotropic drugs.”

I agree if the OP wants specific legal advice to file some kind of complaint, she should seek an attorney and perhaps that asking her if he's on any meds may not by itself rise to something that is litigable. OP isn't asking if she has a legal case, she's asking if she can be required to disclose medication.

But the language and the statute should be enough to reassure her that inquiries about medication are out of line, and she is certainly not obliged to respond to them and the school certainly can't retaliate or deny access to a program or help if she refuses to disclose or if she refuses to medicate. (To do so would amount to forcing her to medicate for access to services which IS explicitly prohibited by statute.)

Whatever she's said is already out there, so the damage from that is done, but she certainly should not feel obligated in the future to share with anyone. And, if she doesn't want to share, she should practice some neutral non-response like, "wow, that's a pretty personal question, why do you ask?" followed by, "oh, we really just share our medication issues with our physician, since he's the only one qualified to prescribe and adjust medications, but if you have some input on how our son is functioning in the classroom, I'm always open to hearing about that..." etc.

Again, it's a different issue whether it's helpful to disclose. It can be helpful as other PPs attest, or it can be damaging, and that depends on the specific facts in her case. Only she can choose.

Anonymous wrote:In all of this, OP has yet to reveal -- although one can very much infer from her introductory statements -- that she readily disclosed this information to the private school team. In my opinion, this has nothing to do with OP's quest for a legal opinion about her right to withhold information and is much more about OP's feelings about having to put her son in public school. She assumes she's going to have an adversarial relationship with the big bad public school and she's creating a foregone conclusion. Yep, she's doing everything she can to make her bad dream come true. OP, if you make things work out badly, they certainly will.

I agree, OP needs to change her attitude. I was like OP when I first learned my child had SN issues and needed an IEP. probably worse, I admit, a complete bitch and adversarial. Now, I've learned that an IEP is a partnership and the school and IEP team want my child to do well. DS is doing SO much better at school and he will be staying there and not move to private which we were considering. So happy. The school and the IEP team and specifically his case manager has made all the difference including going beyond what is provided in his IEP. Be nice. It'll pay off in spades.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A parent can get this feedback without telling the school that the child is taking medication.

In fact, it would be better for the teachers NOT to know that a child's dose has been changed or dropped or added. Telling a teacher something has been changed may influence his or her perception that behavior has changed!

I am a private tutor and tutor children with ADHD. I do not ask parents to tell me if their children are medicated for this condition. However, after every session I let the parents know whether the child was able to focus and to what degree. I have no idea what may be impacting a child's lack of attention at a certain session -- could be the child was up till 2 am the night before, or the child ate something he is having a reaction to, or got an exceptional amount of sleep and exercise, or had a change in medication dosage. Whatever the reason - not my concern, but definitely I can provide feedback every day!

If teachers are willing to provide feedback every day on a child's ability to maintain attention and self control (and many do, through the use of a green-yellow-red system or other device) then they should just do so -- they don't need to know whether a child is on medication and actually shouldn't be told as it might influence their opinion of the child's behavior.

There’s so much more to feedback than just knowing what color the child was on that day. When a teacher knows medication is being used, they know why the information is being requested and why it’s in everyone’s best interest that they provide good observations. Whether a child uses medication or not, you always run the risk of the teacher (and parent) being influenced by that. However, I believe the teachers have just as much interest as the parents do in finding the right medication, the therapeutic dose and when it should be taken. If finding the correct ADHD medication were as easy as most others – where there were standard measures indicating a therapeutic dose – then I would agree that disclosing that information isn’t necessary. But that’s not the case. Finding the right ADHD medication, the right dosage and the right time to take it is a trial and error experience. Even after you get it right, you will still have to tweak it as the child’s metabolism changes. You can try and do this without telling the teacher but you’re going to get better information if they know.

And, so what if it’s noted in the IEP that the child is taking medication? It’s not as if your insurance company doesn’t already know it and that’s far more permanent than a school record. With medical records going electronic, soon any medical professional seeing your child will have that information at their fingertips. A lot of people already know your kid is taking medication.

I know I’m not going to change anyone’s mind and that’s okay. I’m just glad that our school team perceives me as open and communicative. They really make a difference in my kids’ life and while I often hate the process, the people are amazing and under-recognized.

ADHD meds can cause fluctuations in a child's behavior and appetite, so yes, it's important to know that. OP said her child wasn't taking medication - that's important to know as well. ADHD is not a static condition and, as the demands of school increase, a child may have been coping fine without meds but eventually hits the proverbial brick wall and falls apart. OP also noted that the ADHD affects her DS' learning primarily -- medication can be helpful in this regard too. So, knowing a child has ADHD but does not take medication is crucial, IMO, to the school being able to offer effective services and evaluate how a child is doing. I won't say meds are a godsend (they've helped but are hardly miraculous in our experience) but I also think the relationship with the school/IEP team is a partnership. Medication can be a useful adjunct and parental contribution to a child's success with an IEP. Obviously, there's much more that parents do to help a child but as the parent of a child with ADHD, I see how medication has helped him access learning better and thus, he's gotten more benefit from the IEP services.

Hi OP --

Please see the DOE's website on IDEA -- idea.ed.gov

The more specific link is here

http://idea.ed.gov/explore/view/p/,root,regs,300,B,300%252E174,

For the Code of Federal Regulation 34 CFR 300.174

Sec. 300.174 Prohibition on mandatory medication.

(a) General. The SEA must prohibit State and LEA personnel from requiring parents to obtain a prescription for substances identified under schedules I, II, III, IV, or V in section 202(c) of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 812(c)) for a child as a condition of attending school, receiving an evaluation under Sec. Sec. 300.300 through 300.311, or receiving services under this part.

(b) Rule of construction. Nothing in paragraph (a) of this section shall be construed to create a Federal prohibition against teachers and other school personnel consulting or sharing classroom-based observations with parents or guardians regarding a student's academic and functional performance, or behavior in the classroom or school, or regarding the need for evaluation for special education or related services under Sec. 300.111 (related to child find).

(Authority: 20 U.S.C. 1412(a)(25))


Notice that the provision is written so it applies to certain classes of medication -- not diagnoses. It covers all prescription drugs. Your child can't be forced to take a prescription drug as a condition of attendance, evaluation or receiving services.

While the provision doesn't technically prohibits a school from asking about medications, it pretty much implies that they shouldn't (because as soon as they start asking, they run the risk of someone saying that felt pressured or required to medicate as a result of the conversation). And it only goes so far as to clarify that the prohibition doesn't prevent teachers from providing information about function and academic behavior, but not so far as to say schools can ask about but not require meds.

I don't view this section as on-point to the question OP asked. It doesn't prohibit the school from asking about whether the parent has elected to have the child on medications, it simply says the school can't require the child to take them. The OP really needs to consult with an attorney specializing in this area if what she is looking for is legal advice on this issue - although since she already answered the question, albeit unhappily, it is not entirely clear to me what would be gained.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's an innocent question. A lot of parents want the school to know if their child is on medication. A teacher can observe how well a dosing schedule is working for a child and may have suggestions for a different dosing schedule that works better. They also should know about medications in case of a medical emergency.

A teacher is not qualified to be offering opinions as to dosing schedule of any kind of medicine. Medication is to be prescribed by a doctor and monitored by the doctor or pharmacist. I would be highly annoyed if a teacher had comments as to my child's medication schedule. It is none of her business.

Now, if the teacher wants to provide me with objective feedback -- "You child is falling asleep every day just before linch -- thought you should know" that's just fine. Then it is up to me to determine if my child's allergy medicines need to be tweaked, for example. But I would NOT want a teacher suggesting changes to medications.

In our experience, teachers have NEVER said medication is not working or suggested changes. We ask them periodically how DS is doing so that we can evaluate what's working/not working in terms of ADHD meds (we also see what life is like at home, but in a school context, it's important to know).

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the parents who think it's a good idea to tell the team - both for medical reasons and for academic and behavioral reasons. However, I don't get what OP is all upset about. The school didn't require her to tell, she just blurted it out because she didn't like being perceived as not a team player, which, if she was withholding information is certainly not an unreasonable perspective on the part of the team.

I've been in that position before and it's not pleasant. Nobody wants to be a b@tch but some things are none of their business. I would say this is especially true for women who learn that they are supposed to get along and cooperate. These are people you have to deal with after the moment (of the IEP or whatever) so you can't come out and say what you really want but if you do speak your mind then you're a troublemaker. The answers to "innocent" questions accumulate over time and your teachers/therapists make judgments about you and your kid, some of which get into your records.

Our DS takes medication for both ADHD and anxiety and we've always discussed it with the school. I'd say it's very important to do so, especially with respect to the anxiety medication. Anxiety meds are funny -- they do help, but they can also cause a child to become "disinhibited" and create sudden, very unexpected behavior problems. This happened to our DS with the first anxiety med he tried - turned out the dose was too high and it did create one rather spectacular behavioral issue one day at school. It was helpful for the school to know this - they addressed the issue with him and us but knowing he was on medication definitely shaped how they responded to the issue.

I'd also say it's helpful with ADHD meds to disclose - if your child doesn't take medication, it can help the school figure out optimal ways to help him. In our DS' case, having the teachers know has helped them gauge when he's having difficulties in the class. No regrets about medication here -- DS is also primarily inattentive, but like with your child, ADHD has a huge impact on his learning (he also has learned to manage behavior-wise for the most part, even when meds wear off).

I don't know the answer legally - they can't require you to medicate your child but the knowledge is useful to them in figuring ways to help your son.

Unlike other OPs, I don't think your response was rude etc., but I will say that an open and open-minded attitude will do wonders. It's not that we just accept everything the IEP Team says, but at least in our experience, honey works better than vinegar. We know of families that don't like the approach their schools take for various reasons and they do have a more difficult time, and their kids suffer as a result too.

Good luck, OP!