Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There a few years when I was in college where I didn't take my faith so seriously, and I was living with a boyfriend. During that time we used condoms, as I still found hormonal contraceptives to be problematic (especially the potential abortifacient properties).

It seems that just about every Catholic has those years. They are called "before I was married and didn't want to have a baby out of wedlock". They are followed by the "now we are married and ready to have kids and so we ought to reconnect with our faith" years. This part is heralded by your first ever box of envelopes for the weekly offering, CCD classes - or kids in plaid jumpers if you can swing it, and the occasional capital campaign pledge. You may at this point find where that rosary of yours was hidden away.

Sometimes they are followed by the "we already have a big family and have done more than our duty to fulfill God's plan, now it's time to take care of the children He already gave us" years. Vasectomy isn't an abortifacient, so it seems like God wouldn't mind that much.

It's hard to accept the claims of adherence from the people who are possibly smack dab in the middle of this three phase pattern that is so common.

Yes, I know people like that. Abandoning the faith is abandoning the faith, whether it happens before or after some period of time of acceptance of the faith. You forgot to add the fourth stage -- when you are in your 70's and death is staring you in the face, and you realize that the vasectomy, too, was wrong and you try to make amends. Thank goodness we have a forgiving God!

At any rate, just because someone questions or even abandons their faith during college, it doesn't mean that they can't ever return to a true belief. It's easy for young adults to go through something like that, for many reasons which I'm sure you can imagine. In my case, I returned to the faith many years (and boyfriends) before I met DH, and lived a pretty chaste during those years. Yes, that means that DH and I didn't even live together during our engagement. We've always stayed true to Church teaching in the contraception/sexuality department, and believe in it more than ever now, even though we are done having children. Sure, there are any number of ways that I might sin in the future, but it's just not going to be about the contraception issue.

You mean you weren't having sex with your husband before marriage?

Anonymous wrote:

There a few years when I was in college where I didn't take my faith so seriously, and I was living with a boyfriend. During that time we used condoms, as I still found hormonal contraceptives to be problematic (especially the potential abortifacient properties).

It seems that just about every Catholic has those years. They are called "before I was married and didn't want to have a baby out of wedlock". They are followed by the "now we are married and ready to have kids and so we ought to reconnect with our faith" years. This part is heralded by your first ever box of envelopes for the weekly offering, CCD classes - or kids in plaid jumpers if you can swing it, and the occasional capital campaign pledge. You may at this point find where that rosary of yours was hidden away.

Sometimes they are followed by the "we already have a big family and have done more than our duty to fulfill God's plan, now it's time to take care of the children He already gave us" years. Vasectomy isn't an abortifacient, so it seems like God wouldn't mind that much.

It's hard to accept the claims of adherence from the people who are possibly smack dab in the middle of this three phase pattern that is so common.

Yes, I know people like that. Abandoning the faith is abandoning the faith, whether it happens before or after some period of time of acceptance of the faith. You forgot to add the fourth stage -- when you are in your 70's and death is staring you in the face, and you realize that the vasectomy, too, was wrong and you try to make amends. Thank goodness we have a forgiving God!

At any rate, just because someone questions or even abandons their faith during college, it doesn't mean that they can't ever return to a true belief. It's easy for young adults to go through something like that, for many reasons which I'm sure you can imagine. In my case, I returned to the faith many years (and boyfriends) before I met DH, and lived a pretty chaste during those years. Yes, that means that DH and I didn't even live together during our engagement. We've always stayed true to Church teaching in the contraception/sexuality department, and believe in it more than ever now, even though we are done having children. Sure, there are any number of ways that I might sin in the future, but it's just not going to be about the contraception issue.

Anonymous wrote:Here's how it works for he Catholics I know.

Having sex in college: 99% birth control (no way kids out of wedlock)

Sex while married, no kids: 50% (let God decide when)
Married 2 kids: 75% (let me decide how many)
3/4+ kids: a whole lot of vasectomies. (ok we did our duty. Gotta pay for college)

LOL! That's exactly when my Catholic dad got a vasectomy -- after the 4th baby!

This is the document that outlines it for Catholics. It is an encyclical called Humanae Vitae:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

Wow, sorry--stuff about God, NOT stuff about For. Stupid phone...

Anonymous wrote:What is the rationale behind no birth control? Seriously.

It's a theology thing. You wouldn't understand.

I'm not a Catholic, but I've made attempts over the years to understand the theology behind this. There's stuff about For, and the sheer awesomeness of sex that can't be experienced if you try to block the fertility aspect. There are some posters who have tried to explain it on these forums, but I've still never understood. I maintain that if you're not Catholic, you just can't understand the reasoning--in part because it comes down to faith, not reason.

I really don't mean to slam Catholics on this one. It's a belief that clearly enriches both their relationships with God and those with their spouses, and when they fall about it it sounds beautiful. But an understanding of it has always eluded me.

Anonymous wrote:What is the rationale behind no birth control? Seriously.

The idea is that you should always be open to life within a marriage. Of course, this is a policy devised by men who will never have to face the prospect of providing for a spouse and possibly a bunch of kids. And the policy was almost changed in the 1960s when a pontifical committee recommended changing the Church's position on contraceptives, but the Pope doubled down instead. Supporters of the Church policy contend that the Pill causes "abortions" of fertilized eggs that are unable to attach to the uterus. Yet our bodies self-"abort" something like 80% of fertilized eggs before they attach to the uterus and the Church remains quite silent on this natural loss of millions of human lives and for some reason has not devised programs to prevent the body's natural flushing out of unattached fertilized eggs.

What is the rationale behind no birth control? Seriously.

There a few years when I was in college where I didn't take my faith so seriously, and I was living with a boyfriend. During that time we used condoms, as I still found hormonal contraceptives to be problematic (especially the potential abortifacient properties).

It seems that just about every Catholic has those years. They are called "before I was married and didn't want to have a baby out of wedlock". They are followed by the "now we are married and ready to have kids and so we ought to reconnect with our faith" years. This part is heralded by your first ever box of envelopes for the weekly offering, CCD classes - or kids in plaid jumpers if you can swing it, and the occasional capital campaign pledge. You may at this point find where that rosary of yours was hidden away.

Sometimes they are followed by the "we already have a big family and have done more than our duty to fulfill God's plan, now it's time to take care of the children He already gave us" years. Vasectomy isn't an abortifacient, so it seems like God wouldn't mind that much.

It's hard to accept the claims of adherence from the people who are possibly smack dab in the middle of this three phase pattern that is so common.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Catholic family in our mid-30's with three great kids. We have never used artificial contraception of any kind. Been married 10 years. We are successful, happy, love our Church and participate in it fully - including receiving communion at Mass.

There a few years when I was in college where I didn't take my faith so seriously, and I was living with a boyfriend. During that time we used condoms, as I still found hormonal contraceptives to be problematic (especially the potential abortifacient properties).

Like all people, I'm a sinner - always will be - and certainly have sinned in the past; when I feel that it is sufficient enough to be separating me from God and when I know the matter is serious, I make sure to take it to confession before receiving communion.

This is what I hate about Catholicism "Like all people, I'm a sinner". Do you not see the absurdity in what you are saying?? What a horrible thing.

+1

Why horrible, if that's what she believes? I happen to disagree with a lot of the church's teachings ... and I am not Christian anyway ... but sincere faith is sincere faith, and should not be mocked in and of itself. When it impinges on other people's rights, that's when I object. But if someone wants to believe I am a heretic and a sinner, I really don't care. (As long as they don't baptize me after I am dead.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Catholic family in our mid-30's with three great kids. We have never used artificial contraception of any kind. Been married 10 years. We are successful, happy, love our Church and participate in it fully - including receiving communion at Mass.

There a few years when I was in college where I didn't take my faith so seriously, and I was living with a boyfriend. During that time we used condoms, as I still found hormonal contraceptives to be problematic (especially the potential abortifacient properties).

Like all people, I'm a sinner - always will be - and certainly have sinned in the past; when I feel that it is sufficient enough to be separating me from God and when I know the matter is serious, I make sure to take it to confession before receiving communion.

This is what I hate about Catholicism "Like all people, I'm a sinner". Do you not see the absurdity in what you are saying?? What a horrible thing.

+1

Anonymous wrote:Catholic family in our mid-30's with three great kids. We have never used artificial contraception of any kind. Been married 10 years. We are successful, happy, love our Church and participate in it fully - including receiving communion at Mass.

There a few years when I was in college where I didn't take my faith so seriously, and I was living with a boyfriend. During that time we used condoms, as I still found hormonal contraceptives to be problematic (especially the potential abortifacient properties).

Like all people, I'm a sinner - always will be - and certainly have sinned in the past; when I feel that it is sufficient enough to be separating me from God and when I know the matter is serious, I make sure to take it to confession before receiving communion.

This is what I hate about Catholicism "Like all people, I'm a sinner". Do you not see the absurdity in what you are saying?? What a horrible thing.

Yes, I use birth control. I have 3 amazing kids that were very carefully wanted and planned. I have no qualms with this. Then again, I don't go to Mass every Sunday or take communion every time I go, but it has nothing to do with birth control. Yes, yes, I know I've been told repeatedly by this boards I am not "really" a catholic....
Ohhh and I support gay rights 100%, think women should be ordained and divorce should always be a last resort option. I am horrified by all the abuse cases and how the church has handled them. This last case with the lesbian lady at the funeral appalls me.
I have had many informative and respectful discussions about all this with one of my best friends who is a Jesuit priest and though some of our opinions differ (not as many as you'd think) we are both fine with all this and he has never threatened to "excommunicate" me.
Flame away. I am sure I'll be handed a one way ticket to hell by many posters. As one PP said we are all sinners and the God I believe in is all forgiving but not financially responsible for my kids.

Really enjoying hearing people's experience of the Church. Thanks everyone for sharing.

Anonymous wrote:^^Hm, maybe it was the fact that I wasn't confirmed then. That, and the fact that my family wanted us to have a full Mass...I don't think we could have had that?

and to end this discussion, it doesn't really matter, I'm happily an ex-Catholic now!