Anonymous
Post 04/14/2012 17:28     Subject: Re:Anyone know when HGC letters are sent and how much time u have to accept/decline?
Although I have more knowledge of/personal experience with moving from the middle school magnet waitpools (Eastern and TP) than the HGC (b/c my kid was accepted outright ) , the (very limited number of) kids/families I know who got into the HGC through the waitpool were the ones who had provided additional information like a sibling/twin had been accepted; an older sibling is currently in the program; etc. In contrast, I don't know of anyone (again, from among a handful of families) who thought his/her kid was moved from the waitpool simply because his/her name was selected through a lottery. But, I have no reasons of my own to believe that open HGC spots were not filled in whole or part through a lottery -- my point is only that the limited number of people I know who were in this situation seem to believe that their kid was moved from the waitpool into the program after they had provided additional reason(s) for why the placement into the WAITPOOL had not been warranted (e.g., the waitlisted sibling is just as capable/worthy as the accepted sibling). The only waitpool-to-program situation I know of which didn't involve some kind of "sibling" issue is one where the family successfully demonstrated that the particular kid's needs could not be met at the home school (due to funding/resource cuts) and that claim was supported by the home school's principal.
Anonymous
Post 04/12/2012 15:10     Subject: Re:Anyone know when HGC letters are sent and how much time u have to accept/decline?
Anonymous wrote:A couple of years ago, my kid was wait-listed for Eastern; we were encouraged by our school's principal and the magnet coordinator to "appeal" the wait-list decision but supplementing your profile. (Although the notification letter says that the selection committee will review the files of all applicants in the wait-pool in filling open seats, both the principal and magnet coordinator said that it is important to supplement the file with additional information -- otherwise, the second committee is simply reviewing the same material as the initial one and the second committee is unlikely to "disagree" with the initial placement when presented with the same information; in other words, we were strongly advised to give them "something else" to consider.)

My kid was moved from the wait-list and invited into the program within a couple of weeks from the deadline for filing an appeal (which was the same deadline for invited and waitlisted students to accept/decline the placement). A friend's kid who also was wait-listed (and who also filed an appeal/supplemented the application) was offered a seat into the program just after the school year started, and transfered to Eastern from the local middle school in early-mid September and didn't have any problems getting up to speed. And, there were also a couple of kid's who joined the program in seventh grade but, in one of those cases, the student was not invited from the wait-pool, but was placed at Eastern when she moved to MoCo from a similar magnet program/school in a different state -- and she seems to have done well too despite "missing" the first year of the program.

What kind of additional info can someone supply after just a few more months of filling the application?

Anonymous
Post 04/12/2012 14:52     Subject: Anyone know when HGC letters are sent and how much time u have to accept/decline?
Oops -- please disregard my post about my kid being wait-listed at Eastern -- it's not pertinent to the HGC process because the open seats are filled by "lottery." But in my younger kid's year, 4 students from our school were accepted outright and two were waitlisted; one got in, the other didn't. The one who got in, had two older siblings who had been in the program and who then went onto to Takoma Park -- and so I don't know if it was just a coincidence that he happened to get one of the 6 open spots that were filled by lottery (and also, that same year, one of these spots was filled by the wait-listed twin of an accepted kid from a neigboring school). So I'm skeptical that waitlisted students are randomly selected to fill open spots.
Anonymous
Post 04/12/2012 14:36     Subject: Re:Anyone know when HGC letters are sent and how much time u have to accept/decline?
A couple of years ago, my kid was wait-listed for Eastern; we were encouraged by our school's principal and the magnet coordinator to "appeal" the wait-list decision but supplementing your profile. (Although the notification letter says that the selection committee will review the files of all applicants in the wait-pool in filling open seats, both the principal and magnet coordinator said that it is important to supplement the file with additional information -- otherwise, the second committee is simply reviewing the same material as the initial one and the second committee is unlikely to "disagree" with the initial placement when presented with the same information; in other words, we were strongly advised to give them "something else" to consider.)

My kid was moved from the wait-list and invited into the program within a couple of weeks from the deadline for filing an appeal (which was the same deadline for invited and waitlisted students to accept/decline the placement). A friend's kid who also was wait-listed (and who also filed an appeal/supplemented the application) was offered a seat into the program just after the school year started, and transfered to Eastern from the local middle school in early-mid September and didn't have any problems getting up to speed. And, there were also a couple of kid's who joined the program in seventh grade but, in one of those cases, the student was not invited from the wait-pool, but was placed at Eastern when she moved to MoCo from a similar magnet program/school in a different state -- and she seems to have done well too despite "missing" the first year of the program.
Anonymous
Post 04/12/2012 14:17     Subject: Re:Anyone know when HGC letters are sent and how much time u have to accept/decline?
Anonymous wrote:Lots of discussion about whether or not to appeal but does anyone know anything about odds of getting out of the "waitpool"? The letter says students from the waitpool will be selected by lottery. So is that an ongoing lottery as admitted kids decline spots? How long do the accepted students have to decide? Any information appreciated.


The deadline for accepting/declining is April 20th.
Anonymous
Post 04/12/2012 13:45     Subject: Re:Anyone know when HGC letters are sent and how much time u have to accept/decline?
Lots of discussion about whether or not to appeal but does anyone know anything about odds of getting out of the "waitpool"? The letter says students from the waitpool will be selected by lottery. So is that an ongoing lottery as admitted kids decline spots? How long do the accepted students have to decide? Any information appreciated.
Anonymous
Post 03/28/2012 22:32     Subject: Re:Anyone know when HGC letters are sent and how much time u have to accept/decline?
Anonymous wrote:The amount of applicants and academic level of applicants are different in each consortium. So, selecting criterion for HGC students has to be different based on which consortia they live.

Here is median SAS of selected students for Pin Crest/Oak View center that I got from the letter of MCPS

Verbal: 130
Quantitative: 122
Nonverbal: 126

I hope other parents can post their median SAS score of selected students from the other consortium.


Chevy Chase Elementary

Verbal: 134
Quantitative: 131
Nonverbal: 129
Anonymous
Post 03/28/2012 11:16     Subject: Re:Anyone know when HGC letters are sent and how much time u have to accept/decline?
The amount of applicants and academic level of applicants are different in each consortium. So, selecting criterion for HGC students has to be different based on which consortia they live.

Here is median SAS of selected students for Pin Crest/Oak View center that I got from the letter of MCPS

Verbal: 130
Quantitative: 122
Nonverbal: 126

I hope other parents can post their median SAS score of selected students from the other consortium.
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2012 22:40     Subject: Re:Anyone know when HGC letters are sent and how much time u have to accept/decline?
I guarantee Superintendent Starr and his bureaucratic cronies will reverse their decision doing away with all potential pathways enabling stellar math students from advancing in MCPS. Unfortunately, it may take a few years for the statisticians to spoon feed this leadership the outcome data from this folly. This is a pity for the students trapped in this valley of academic death that will impact later performance in MCPS middle and high school to follow. Our children and their families did not consent to this experiment so Starr can test his borrowed hypothesis about social justice.
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2012 15:14     Subject: Anyone know when HGC letters are sent and how much time u have to accept/decline?
I have been told that what is offered at the home school is also a factor. If the home school has a large number of talented students, the HGC might assume that the school can meet the needs of the group. My home school used to offer a 2 year acceleration of math but recently stopped. That was a major reason we applied to the HGC. Children who took Math4 in 2nd grade have been repeating it until they are back down to grade level (which would mean math4 3x). A large number of kids were accepted last year and I am betting that the math situation at our home school was a big reason. The school was clearly not meeting the needs of the kids as another school might.
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2012 14:35     Subject: Anyone know when HGC letters are sent and how much time u have to accept/decline?
So when my all Os & As, above grade level performing at a well-regarded MCPS ES (which consistently has 4-6 students each year move into the HGC), highly-recommended, and above median-test scoring student was not accepted into the program, I didn't think that some less-deserving student "got" my kid's spot. Instead, as I explained to my kid going into the process, in this county (and from our school with a majority of the Grade 3 students applying), it's pretty much a crap shoot gaining admission into the magnet program

See this not what the selection process to the best education programs in MCPS should be. No parent should accept this as ok. Since we all accept it, MCPS gets away rejecting appeal to the service needs of many.
-- and, in our case, we are fortunate because our home school is sufficient (e.g., Math 7 in Grade 5 -- and thrilled that we're avoiding the whole Curriculum 2.0 implementation!).

Not everyone is fortunate to have a acceptable service available in local school. Luck should not drive our kids’ education. Policy and regulation should ensure every kid gets the appropriate education they need to reach their full potential. I hate to see so many bright kids being neglected in our school system.


I didn't intend to equate non-acceptance into the HGC with "being neglected in our school system" but agree that every student is entitled to an "acceptable service" or academically-appropriate level of instruction in the local/home school that fully prepares the student to succeed at the next level and beyond. I also didn't intend to suggest that "luck" should "drive our kids' eduction" but only that "luck," happenstance, arbitrariness (even within the same family as the case of the twins) or whatever you may want to call it, certainly seems to play a role in the HGC/magnet selection process because there simply are not enough seats for every qualified, well-qualified, exceptionally-qualified, overly-qualified kid who needs/wants one; so what happens to these kids -- the rejected/neglected -- is a different issue (and one I also didn't intend to wade into -- sorry for the confusion).
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2012 13:45     Subject: Anyone know when HGC letters are sent and how much time u have to accept/decline?
Anonymous wrote: my underlying point was that the reality is that there are many more qualified students -- even exceptionally qualified students -- than there is space in the magnet programs.

You are correct; there are much more exceptionally qualified students than magnet slots available. That is exactly the reason, the selection should be objective and there should be equivalent education available in local schools. Otherwise, it is doubly unfair to the exceptionally qualified students who are rejected every year.

So when my all Os & As, above grade level performing at a well-regarded MCPS ES (which consistently has 4-6 students each year move into the HGC), highly-recommended, and above median-test scoring student was not accepted into the program, I didn't think that some less-deserving student "got" my kid's spot. Instead, as I explained to my kid going into the process, in this county (and from our school with a majority of the Grade 3 students applying), it's pretty much a crap shoot gaining admission into the magnet program

See this not what the selection process to the best education programs in MCPS should be. No parent should accept this as ok. Since we all accept it, MCPS gets away rejecting appeal to the service needs of many.
-- and, in our case, we are fortunate because our home school is sufficient (e.g., Math 7 in Grade 5 -- and thrilled that we're avoiding the whole Curriculum 2.0 implementation!).

Not everyone is fortunate to have a acceptable service available in local school. Luck should not drive our kids’ education. Policy and regulation should ensure every kid gets the appropriate education they need to reach their full potential. I hate to see so many bright kids being neglected in our school system.
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2012 11:59     Subject: Anyone know when HGC letters are sent and how much time u have to accept/decline?
Sorry for the over-reaction to your post. I just bristle at comments that I perceive as suggesting that any student accepted into the magnet program may be less qualified than any other accepted students. I recognize now that YOU weren't suggesting this; my underlying point was that the reality is that there are many more qualified students -- even exceptionally qualified students -- than there is space in the magnet programs. So when my all Os & As, above grade level performing at a well-regarded MCPS ES (which consistently has 4-6 students each year move into the HGC), highly-recommended, and above median-test scoring student was not accepted into the program, I didn't think that some less-deserving student "got" my kid's spot. Instead, as I explained to my kid going into the process, in this county (and from our school with a majority of the Grade 3 students applying), it's pretty much a crap shoot gaining admission into the magnet program -- and, in our case, we are fortunate because our home school is sufficient (e.g., Math 7 in Grade 5 -- and thrilled that we're avoiding the whole Curriculum 2.0 imlementation!).

In response to the original poster, if you feel like appealing, you should. A couple of years ago, neighbors successfully appealed the acceptance of one twin (their son) and the rejection of the other (their daughter -- who had outperformed her brother on the admission test); both were placed in the HGC, thrived there, and one went on to Eastern and the other to Takoma Park.
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2012 11:53     Subject: Anyone know when HGC letters are sent and how much time u have to accept/decline?
Anonymous wrote:I'm the pp from 8 a.m. I think I was partly responding to this post which I disagree with.


I am the PP who wrote about subjective HGC selection to achieve SES, racial and geneder balance. Another PP talked about the higher %age of Asian and White kids in Drew HGC. I am not that PP.

What I was talking about is not about the balance in the school hosting the HGC program. It is more of a balance within the highly selective HGC and magnet programs. The reason behind this is the question of "achievement gap" Dr. Starr points out. In a school system where it is impossible to eradicate the achievement gap (external factor contributes to it than the school system itself), "the power to be" try to decrese the achievement gap (so that they do not have to answer difficult question) by having subjective selection, not open to public scrutiny and not having an objective cutoff. I have personally talked to AEI staff and heard from other parents who have been to information sessions for HGC and magnet school application and found this to be true.

If you do not beleive me, call AEI and ask for real cutoff points (like atleast 96th %tile in math, 95th %tile in verbal, rating 3/5 in teacher reco, grade A in math, reading and writing in 2nd grade instructed above grade level etc.). They do not have any. They do case-to-case selection. That means some qualified students cannot get in even though they might be better in terms of academic achievements than others that get in. The kids who get rejected (so that the school system can accomodate others) suffer the most due to lack of appropriate education in local school. Until we have enough slots in HGC and magnet programs or have equivalent programs available in local schools, the school system harms some kids to help some others and cannot be called objective or fair.
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2012 10:54     Subject: Anyone know when HGC letters are sent and how much time u have to accept/decline?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Test results drive most of the decision for acceptance/rejection.

Grades are somewhat subjective too - some teachers are easier graders than others.


Test results do not drive most of the decisions - I am told by AEI who handles selection process. In fact AEI has told many times that racial, gender equilibrium is one thing they look for. They would not put it in writing in the criteria - but they talk about it in information session. I have no idea how they achieve balance. AEI will not disclose clear cutoff points and they have said they take teachers recommendation into account. AEI will not also disclose the weights they assign to different factors (test result, grades, raven testing score from 2nd grade, MAP-R, teacher recommendation etc.). Hence the overall selection process is quite subjective and done on a case-to-case basis.


Forgot to add, I also have learned that the academic levels of students selected to each HGC vary beacuse of this subjective selection process.


I'm the pp from 8 a.m. I think I was partly responding to this post which I disagree with.