Anonymous wrote:I am neither a Christian nor an Atheist, but i see nothing wrong with appropriating other religions' teaching and practices. Lent is a good example - a time for self-reflection and discipline. Is it really offensive if I choose to observe bits and pieces of your religion? I was raised in a religion that views all religion as equal, and I was encouraged to learn from and appreciate other religions. This possessiveness over traditions (when many of those traditions themselves are derived from other religions!) astounds me.

And why the @#$ do you care if someone gives up things for lent. Isn't your faith between you and God? Do you think God is going to be angry if non-Christians observe lent? It's like a petulant child getting angry when her little sister wants to watch Sesame Street with her. The petulant child is in no way affected by her little sister peeking at the screen, but throws a fit anyway.

I think you're missing the point here. If OP's BF is an athiest, he doesn't believe in God (or faith, for that matter). So why, exactly, would he want to participate in Lent? I agree with OP that this doesn't make much sense and would be inclined to be annoyed with the BF, too.

Anonymous wrote:Did any of you actually read OP's post? They are upset that all other days of the year, the bf mocks being a Christian but then wants to partake in something that is a Christian 40 day long tradition. Nobody is saying atheist cant participate in Christian holidays, but it's off putting when that atheist mocks the very thing they are wanting to participate in.

That's not an accurate summary. OP's boyfriend may mock the Catholic church and many of its teachings (something even many Catholics do!), but OP did not say he was mocking Lent specifically. Indeed, if he's mocking Lent and saying Lent's really a dumb thing to do, I'm also puzzled why he's choosing to participate. I suspect he has negative views of the Catholic church and its teachings, but sees some positive value in the sacrifice and purpose behind Lent. That doesn't seem inconsistent at all to me, and again, I suspect many Catholics feel the same way.

Just so we're all clear, I am the atheist who posted at 12:35 on page 1 of this thread, where I spelled out exactly how and why I sacrifice during Lent season.

Here are some views I distill from this thread and others. I'll dub them the "Asshole View of Religion" (AVR).

1. Don't be an asshole. Whether you are a Catholic, a Christian, a Jew, a Hindu, a Muslim, a Mormon, a multi-theist, a pan-theist, an atheist, or whatever ... just don't be an asshole.
2. Sadly, however, the world is full of assholes. They come in all shapes and sizes, and from all viewpoints on the spectrum of religion (including non-religion).
3. Just because you meet an asshole of one religious viewpoint does not mean that everyone else who shares that viewpoint is also an asshole.
4. Just because someone disagrees with your own chosen religious viewpoint, or even thinks your views on religion are utterly stupid, does not mean that other person is an asshole.
5. The line between asshole and non-asshole can be a very hard one to spot. So if you think someone else crossed the line, give her the benefit of the doubt, since maybe you misjudged the line. By the same token, if you yourself are getting close to the line, take a step back, lest you be judged an asshole.
6. Many teachings of different religious viewpoints (including non-religious viewpoints) are positive, and they can lead you to be a better person. If you can identify and follow some of these teachings, you are less likely to be an asshole.

Also ... people aren't wearing enough hats.

Did any of you actually read OP's post? They are upset that all other days of the year, the bf mocks being a Christian but then wants to partake in something that is a Christian 40 day long tradition. Nobody is saying atheist cant participate in Christian holidays, but it's off putting when that atheist mocks the very thing they are wanting to participate in.

Anonymous wrote:Well, in the first place, Lent is *Catholic*, not Protestant. But Protestants have been appropriating lenten traditions for a while now. So we've already travelled down the road of cultural appropriation.

Still, even though I'm an atheist ex-catholic, something about non-Catholics (not just atheists) doing Lenten traditions (Ash Wednesday, giving something up) does grate on me. I guess it's because I grew up in a minority Catholic area, so I don't feel that comfortable with people appropriating my culture as they see fit, just because it seems cool or whatever. I also grew up in a pretty intensely religious home, and it took quite a while and a lot of thought to arrive at my atheism. Because of this, I think I take ALL religious practices very seriously and would never just wholesale adopt one because it seemed pleasing for whatever reason. I've met other atheists who feel the same way: perhaps counter-intuitively, because we've thought a lot about religious believes and how important and meaningful they are, we actually have a lot of respect for religious traditions and take them more seriously than casual believers might.

I'm a non-denominational Christian and I don't observe Lent. It does seem a bit odd when non-Catholics participate. I can't help but think that these folks are following "the fad". Participating in a religious observation without full understanding of its importance seems a bit disrespectful and insincere to me.

RantingAtheist wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But I am a Christian. You don't convert anyone by slapping them for showing the slightest curiosity in our traditions. Here are people who don't have any connection to God, but they have some interest in our exercise of self-examination and discipline. That's a step. Whether it is a step toward God or a step toward tolerance and acceptance, who knows. But it is an opportunity for someone to appreciate our values.

So what do you go and do? Piss on them for doing it. Then, when I point out how you ranters just did the same thing at Christmas, you decide I am the enemy. Nope. When I said "you", I mean you judgmental Christians who are not living your faith. What would your priest or minister say of the things you have written in the name of our religion? You would be ashamed if they knew it was you. Christians are supposed to lead by example. When someone approaches us about our traditions, we should be showing them what they mean to us. And almost every religion has a tradition of atonement. It is something that can bind us together. Don't ruin it by making a mockery of the time of forgiveness and renewal.

I think if all Christians were as decent as you seem to be, there might be fewer atheists.

Totally agree with RA on this.

RantingAtheist wrote:

Quick Smug Christian! Register the "SmugChristian" DCUM alias while it's still available! We need a team of psychologists to untangle PP, though. never seen anyone so quick to anger, so quick to cast stones, and so quick to go on the defensive: "I'm not judging! I'm just calling out bad behavior! You're judging!"

It's like a simmering gumbo of pathology.

Apart from yourself, at least going by the posts you bother to put your name on

Anonymous wrote:I'm not 10:30. But I'm with her. I don't think calling out atheists on their awful behavior is unchristian. What is unchristian is how the "smug Christian" pretends this is about atheism per se, instead of about atheists' behavior. Don't twist the debate. Then read Luke - you're supposed to talk with other people about their bad behavior, but judging - atheists or your fellow Christians- is flat-out wrong.

Glad the Smug Christian's nasty, un-Christian attacks on other Christians provided some amusement for the Ranting Atheist, though.

Quick Smug Christian! Register the "SmugChristian" DCUM alias while it's still available! We need a team of psychologists to untangle PP, though. never seen anyone so quick to anger, so quick to cast stones, and so quick to go on the defensive: "I'm not judging! I'm just calling out bad behavior! You're judging!"

It's like a simmering gumbo of pathology.

On protestants and lent: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/faithbased/2006/02/get_lent.html

Well, in the first place, Lent is *Catholic*, not Protestant. But Protestants have been appropriating lenten traditions for a while now. So we've already travelled down the road of cultural appropriation.

Still, even though I'm an atheist ex-catholic, something about non-Catholics (not just atheists) doing Lenten traditions (Ash Wednesday, giving something up) does grate on me. I guess it's because I grew up in a minority Catholic area, so I don't feel that comfortable with people appropriating my culture as they see fit, just because it seems cool or whatever. I also grew up in a pretty intensely religious home, and it took quite a while and a lot of thought to arrive at my atheism. Because of this, I think I take ALL religious practices very seriously and would never just wholesale adopt one because it seemed pleasing for whatever reason. I've met other atheists who feel the same way: perhaps counter-intuitively, because we've thought a lot about religious believes and how important and meaningful they are, we actually have a lot of respect for religious traditions and take them more seriously than casual believers might.

I have two Christian friends who celebrate Passover and Hanukkah. I think you should be able to observe as you please.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here again. Atheists, unlike followers of a particular religion, are not a collective group. We lack dogma. We lack cohesion. We share only a single belief, which is that there is no god or gods.

Surprise, not all Christians follow the Pope. There is a very wide range of Christian beliefs. So why are you blaming all "you Christians" for the actions of a few, and how is this different from atheists?

But you knew this of course. Hypocrite - again.

I think you have me confused with another poster. I'm the poster who said that I shouldn't be responsible for the posts of other atheists and I won't hold you responsible for David Koresh.

I'm not 10:30. But I'm with her. I don't think calling out atheists on their awful behavior is unchristian. What is unchristian is how the "smug Christian" pretends this is about atheism per se, instead of about atheists' behavior. Don't twist the debate. Then read Luke - you're supposed to talk with other people about their bad behavior, but judging - atheists or your fellow Christians- is flat-out wrong.

Glad the Smug Christian's nasty, un-Christian attacks on other Christians provided some amusement for the Ranting Atheist, though.

RantingAtheist wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You so called atheists with your Christian practices are so funny. You have 325 (326 this year!) other days in the year to give up something to show sacrifice, yadda, yadda, blah, blah. BUT, you decide to do it during Lent.....but you're not a Christian and not partaking in a Christian custom. Yeah.............sure.

This. A hundred times, this.

A few months ago you people were whining that the atheists were going to destroy Christmas. Now someone mentions that they honor a Christian tradition and you pick on them for that, too. So no matter what they do with Christian traditions, it's wrong.

You are your own worst enemy.

actually, it looks like this poster is just giving back to you guys what some of you, not all of you, give to christians. Shoe is on the other foot now.

But I am a Christian. You don't convert anyone by slapping them for showing the slightest curiosity in our traditions. Here are people who don't have any connection to God, but they have some interest in our exercise of self-examination and discipline. That's a step. Whether it is a step toward God or a step toward tolerance and acceptance, who knows. But it is an opportunity for someone to appreciate our values.

So what do you go and do? Piss on them for doing it. Then, when I point out how you ranters just did the same thing at Christmas, you decide I am the enemy. Nope. When I said "you", I mean you judgmental Christians who are not living your faith. What would your priest or minister say of the things you have written in the name of our religion? You would be ashamed if they knew it was you. Christians are supposed to lead by example. When someone approaches us about our traditions, we should be showing them what they mean to us. And almost every religion has a tradition of atonement. It is something that can bind us together. Don't ruin it by making a mockery of the time of forgiveness and renewal.

Don't kid yourself. These atheists aren't celebrating Christmas/Easter, observing Lent, etc to search for a connection to God. They make no bones about saying that they don't see God in these things, but instead do them for cultural reasons. It would be fantastic if people were to draw closer to God, but that is just not the case.

Not to judge, but you sound like the least "Christian" poster on thread. Like a Janist who goes around kicking dogs.

Quelle ironie.

Anyone with brain cells will tell you that being a Christian is not about being a saint. We are all imperfect. If I based my belief in God/Jesus on the actions of Christians, I'd probably be an atheist too. But I, thankfully, realize that being called to love one another does not preclude me from chastising someone and/or having differing opinions.

Anonymous wrote:Fine, 10:30. But lack of centralization is not a blanket excuse for nasty and hypocritical atheist behavior.

To paraphrase Larry Summers, "There are assholes. Look around."

Anonymous wrote:PP here again. Atheists, unlike followers of a particular religion, are not a collective group. We lack dogma. We lack cohesion. We share only a single belief, which is that there is no god or gods.

Surprise, not all Christians follow the Pope. There is a very wide range of Christian beliefs. So why are you blaming all "you Christians" for the actions of a few, and how is this different from atheists?

But you knew this of course. Hypocrite - again.