Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Help me out on this one. Huguely told the police that he kicked in the door and beat her and she dies. Does it matter if a heart condition or a beating caused her death? Isn't it still a death in the commission of a felony?

If it didn't cause her death, then not likely to be first degree murder, but a lesser conviction of involuntary manslaughter...

Now I need help figuring the charges out. Aren't first-degree murder and felony murder mutually exclusive? I mean, first-degree is when you set out to kill someone intentionally. Felony murder is when, say, a robbery has gone bad but you never meant to actually kill the person.

You can't have it both ways, or can you?

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-32

This is the poster who was asking about murder charges from a death during the commission of a felony. It looks like the felony murder charge is that charge. Felony murder and 1st degree murder seem to have the same punishment in Virginia, according to the VA code link.

I need a lawyer to help me out on this point. I think that the jury cannot consider charges that the defendant hasn't already been indicted on. Is that correct? Does that mean that 2nd degree murder is not on the table here and the jury can convict or acquit him of either murder charge, but not a different one?

Just because you cannot be convicted of two particular crimes, doesn't mean you can't be charged with them (and see which ones gain traction at the trial with the jury).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Help me out on this one. Huguely told the police that he kicked in the door and beat her and she dies. Does it matter if a heart condition or a beating caused her death? Isn't it still a death in the commission of a felony?

If it didn't cause her death, then not likely to be first degree murder, but a lesser conviction of involuntary manslaughter...

Now I need help figuring the charges out. Aren't first-degree murder and felony murder mutually exclusive? I mean, first-degree is when you set out to kill someone intentionally. Felony murder is when, say, a robbery has gone bad but you never meant to actually kill the person.

You can't have it both ways, or can you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's been in the local jail, which is not too bad in Cville. Wait til he gets to the state pen... then Georgie is going to meet some serious dudes who would LOVE to have a preppy boyfriend. That's when Georgie is going to cry. Money isn't going to get him out of this one.

I'm sorry, but no one deserves to be raped, no matter what they did. This is clearly a kid who did a horrible thing, but glee at him getting raped in prison is ugly.

Not taking glee in his future, but just stating that he's going to have a hard time in the state pen b/c of where he comes from.... he'll surely be a fish out of water.

If that's what you meant, then you should have said that. Your post sounded quite smug with your alteration of his given name and talk about preppy boyfriends and him crying. Ugly.

Exactly.... his future is going to be ugly. If you knew me, you'd know that I actually worked with offenders at the Cville jail when I was in law school, I got an A- in my criminal defense practicum, and I am very opposed to the death penalty. But, here on DCUM, everyone is so ripe to pick a fight. I never said anything about Georgie getting his due by being raped. What I said was a description of what is going to happen to this preppy guy in the big house.... it is not going to be pretty ... b/c there WILL be guys who are much tougher and meaner than him and they WILL enjoy having control over him.

OJ =vomit. Aren't AA's embarrassed FOR him?

17:24 - this. I have known this first hand. Unfortunately, it is true. Someone needs to school them. Normally I wouldn't care how they are wasting their lives, but murder is murder.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's been in the local jail, which is not too bad in Cville. Wait til he gets to the state pen... then Georgie is going to meet some serious dudes who would LOVE to have a preppy boyfriend. That's when Georgie is going to cry. Money isn't going to get him out of this one.

I'm sorry, but no one deserves to be raped, no matter what they did. This is clearly a kid who did a horrible thing, but glee at him getting raped in prison is ugly.

Not taking glee in his future, but just stating that he's going to have a hard time in the state pen b/c of where he comes from.... he'll surely be a fish out of water.

If that's what you meant, then you should have said that. Your post sounded quite smug with your alteration of his given name and talk about preppy boyfriends and him crying. Ugly.

Anonymous wrote:Can anyone post the crimes that GH is charged with--if in fact you know? Posters are throwing around "felony murder" and I just don't recall that from anything I've read of the case. But, I haven't read the charging documents.

They are listed in this WaPo article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/grand-jury-indicts-huguely-ex-u-va-lacrosse-player-on-6-counts-in-love-death/2011/04/18/AFWMJX1D_story.html

Can anyone post the crimes that GH is charged with--if in fact you know? Posters are throwing around "felony murder" and I just don't recall that from anything I've read of the case. But, I haven't read the charging documents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's been in the local jail, which is not too bad in Cville. Wait til he gets to the state pen... then Georgie is going to meet some serious dudes who would LOVE to have a preppy boyfriend. That's when Georgie is going to cry. Money isn't going to get him out of this one.

I'm sorry, but no one deserves to be raped, no matter what they did. This is clearly a kid who did a horrible thing, but glee at him getting raped in prison is ugly.

Not taking glee in his future, but just stating that he's going to have a hard time in the state pen b/c of where he comes from.... he'll surely be a fish out of water.

I don't think there's any such thing as involuntary manslaughter in Virginia. Felony murder is murder in the second degree.

Anonymous wrote:Help me out on this one. Huguely told the police that he kicked in the door and beat her and she dies. Does it matter if a heart condition or a beating caused her death? Isn't it still a death in the commission of a felony?

If it didn't cause her death, then not likely to be first degree murder, but a lesser conviction of involuntary manslaughter...

^^^
pp here... p.s. to the one I'm quoting above.

Your statement that you only have to wait to see the evidence if you're on the jury is both laughable and deplorable/appalling.

It embodies the idiotic notions running around today that we don't need to know the facts (we can rely on reported supposed facts or innuendo or whatever) to know what happened.

You are buying into the Rupert Murdoch-National Enquirer view of the world, which is kind of pathetic, even if in this case it may be clear to us that he killed her.

As a standard for fact-finding, not waiting to see the evidence is sorely lacking --- it belongs in the Soviet gulag, not a justice system ruled by a Constitution and the rule of law.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been in and around the criminal justice system for 32 yrs. (defense attorney, judge, govt. attorney) and one thing I have learned is that while I think the odds are overwhelming that the defendant is guilty of at least 2d degree murder here, none of us where there; none of us know what happened; and we have to see the evidence and then decide.

Almost anything is possible. Our assumptions have to be borne out by facts proven by evidence. Speculating either way before the evidence is heard is nothing more than that -- mere speculation.

I'll be surprised if his story plays out but I want to hear the evidence.

Are you on the defense team by any chance? If we were on the jury, then yes we'd have to wait for the evidence. But come on, it's pretty damn clear he murdered her regardless of the verdict.

I have no connection in any way with the case.

What I DO have is experience enough to know that neither you nor I know what happened and anything is possible. Yes, it's clear he killed her. But that isn't the point being discussed, it's (a) was it 1st degree or 2nd degree (intent matters); and (b) can the prosecution bear its burden of proof.

To a layperson this may be trivial detail. To a lawyer it's what separates our country from 3d world banana republics and kangaroo courts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's been in the local jail, which is not too bad in Cville. Wait til he gets to the state pen... then Georgie is going to meet some serious dudes who would LOVE to have a preppy boyfriend. That's when Georgie is going to cry. Money isn't going to get him out of this one.

I'm sorry, but no one deserves to be raped, no matter what they did. This is clearly a kid who did a horrible thing, but glee at him getting raped in prison is ugly.

And for those whose answer to this would be that they have no sympathy for inmates, consider the implications for the community when we turn a blind eye to, let alone encourage, prison assaults and sexual predation. Most prisoners are released at some point; even if you don't think rehabilitation is possible, do you really want to encourage a system that creates *more dangerous* ex-cons?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's been in the local jail, which is not too bad in Cville. Wait til he gets to the state pen... then Georgie is going to meet some serious dudes who would LOVE to have a preppy boyfriend. That's when Georgie is going to cry. Money isn't going to get him out of this one.

I'm sorry, but no one deserves to be raped, no matter what they did. This is clearly a kid who did a horrible thing, but glee at him getting raped in prison is ugly.

I agree with you -I don't understand the joy that people get out of wishing harm on another individual. This kid was troubled -and no it was no excuse for what he did. Perhaps I am naive but after reading the testimony I think he did not realize the extent of what he caused. He had a fucked up life where his parents (or at least his dad) modeled this righteousness behavior. He surely wasn't born this way!