Anonymous
Post 02/09/2012 21:45     Subject: Why are the scores so high this year?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I've heard but have no real proof that the nonverbal scores count less and verbal counts the most - I think a teacher told me that.


Perhaps a psychologist out there can answer to this, but I would think that high nonverbal scores would be a better judge of giftedness, if any, on these tests.


I have a child who tops the charts with non-verbal, but has above average, not quoted gifted range verbal. I was told by AART non-verbal is not a good predictor of academic success. Verbal is a better predictor, apparently.


Our child got very high scores in nonverbal(NNAT and Cogat), a high quantitative score, and a relatively low verbal score. Got into level IV without any problem. Is getting great grades in reading,writing and social studies even though math is the strength. These tests only measure so much. I would say that verbal is a better predictor for only certain populations. (Based on the performance on another test taken for an academic camp, I think our child would have faired better on a verbal test that had fewer pictures...) Just my two cents worth.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2012 11:24     Subject: Why are the scores so high this year?



I had one DD1 in an enrichment class that ended up being a prep course and DD2 who was not in the course. DD1, close but not in pool, got in upon referral. DD2, unprepped child, in the pool with considerably higher test score. I tend to agree that, like SATs, you can probably get a few points higher but not significantly. Prepping just ads familiarity with test structure and might add a bit of confidence. All of this is IMHO.


100% agree
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2012 11:13     Subject: Why are the scores so high this year?
Anonymous wrote:Does anybody here actually know of a "coached/prepped" kid who did remarkably better than they would have otherwise? (i.e. Do you know of a kid who got super scores but found they were not able to keep up in AAP).

I am curious (even anecdotally). Because I don't believe that prepping has a drastic affect on the scores. I do think that it is helpful to know the format of the test, so that the kid isn't nervous or confused about what is expected. (It would probably be good if they gave all kids a "dry run" at a test just to get them comfortable a few days before the real one).

But I am highly skeptical that coaching would raise scores 20+ points.

So I don't think a high score would be a poor indicator of a gifted child, even if coached. I don't think you could "coach 'em up" that much... just ask Steve Spurrier.



I had one DD1 in an enrichment class that ended up being a prep course and DD2 who was not in the course. DD1, close but not in pool, got in upon referral. DD2, unprepped child, in the pool with considerably higher test score. I tend to agree that, like SATs, you can probably get a few points higher but not significantly. Prepping just ads familiarity with test structure and might add a bit of confidence. All of this is IMHO.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2012 10:58     Subject: Why are the scores so high this year?
Anonymous wrote:
"Well, I guess I got just a little carried away with this post and wrote too much. What I should have said, succinctly, is my kid is the smartest child in the universe, don't you agree? And your dumb ass kid in the 98th percentile should stay the hell out of my kid's way. Your urchin belongs in Gen. Ed. with the unwashed masses. There now. Just putting it into words makes me feel so superior. I'm waiting for agreement. Still waiting."


I'm sorry you took my post that way. Your sarcasm is way over the top but I'll try my best to ignore it.

Here's what you don't know: I have four children. I was only referring to one of them in my previous comments. All of them are smart and talented but only one is gifted and that is no big deal. We approach their education differently because they are all different kids. I was simply sharing my experience with the one who needs an AA type program to succeed to her potential. My two sons are super students, work harder than she but are doing super in Gen Ed so there's no reason to move them when they need the structure of Gen. Ed. I have another daughter in Spec Ed who is doing great too, in an environment that helps her achieve and exceed her potential as well.

I must admit I think you read my post with a measured degree of bias. Just relax, your kids (all kids) are great too, nobody is challenging that. I simply believe that people put waaaay too much pressure on their kids to get into AA and I was sharing that belief, and the basis behind it, in as respectful a manner as possible.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2012 10:48     Subject: Why are the scores so high this year?

Well, I guess I got just a little carried away with this post and wrote too much. What I should have said, succinctly, is my kid is the smartest child in the universe, don't you agree? And your dumb ass kid in the 98th percentile should stay the hell out of my kid's way. Your urchin belongs in Gen. Ed. with the unwashed masses. There now. Just putting it into words makes me feel so superior. I'm waiting for agreement. Still waiting.


I'm sorry you took my post that way. Your sarcasm is way over the top but I'll try my best to ignore it.

Here's what you don't know: I have four children. I was only referring to one of them in my previous comments. All of them are smart and talented but only one is gifted and that is no big deal. We approach their education differently because they are all different kids. I was simply sharing my experience with the one who needs an AA type program to succeed to her potential. My two sons are super students, work harder than she but are doing super in Gen Ed so there's no reason to move them when they need the structure of Gen. Ed. I have another daughter in Spec Ed who is doing great too, in an environment that helps her achieve and exceed her potential as well.

I must admit I think you read my post with a measured degree of bias. Just relax, your kids (all kids) are great too, nobody is challenging that. I simply believe that people put waaaay too much pressure on their kids to get into AA and I was sharing that belief, and the basis behind it, in as respectful a manner as possible.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2012 10:43     Subject: Why are the scores so high this year?
Yes, my unwashed kid who got in with Cogat and NNAT scores in the 130's should have stayed in Gen Ed and missed out on all the O's she's getting now in AAP. I guess I should listen to you 08:40 and not my dd's teacher who tells me my dd is a great student and wonderful to teach. I mean, my dd's teacher has been teaching for 40 years, and GT kids for the last 20...so what does SHE know?
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2012 10:43     Subject: Why are the scores so high this year?
Anonymous wrote:While my child will lose some friends/classmates to AAP, DC is going to have a good education in the base school and when s/he gets to high school, THEN DC can decide if honors and AP classes are in DC's ambitions.

Tyr not to make the whole AAP thing more than it really is. The base schools, while not perfect, are not condemning your child to a life of menial jobs. Really!


I really do agree with this. However, the problem is resources, of course. Our base school has seen a steady increase of ESL students who demand more resources from the classroom teacher and specialists (academically, that is--generally speaking, they are among the best-behaved children in class). Meanwhile, our AART is part-time, to the point where many parents flee for the center because there is so little time for Level III activities. Perhaps other schools are different.

Personally, I have no desire to split up my kids and put my DS on a bus to another neighborhood (and he probably doesn't want that, either--we won't discuss it unless we get accepted). I would love to keep him in the base school if I felt it were truly (or at least 95%) meeting his needs.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2012 10:14     Subject: Why are the scores so high this year?
Anonymous wrote:Are there actually stories of kids who cried because they hadn't made AAP??? Seriously?


Wow. My kids didn't even know they were in the pool. When we went to the AAP center orientation, we told them we were looking at options for school in the fall.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2012 09:53     Subject: Why are the scores so high this year?
Anonymous wrote:Are there actually stories of kids who cried because they hadn't made AAP??? Seriously?


Yes. Wait until April and May. The high drama will come out about how the child is just so distraught that they didn't get into AAP. This kind of pressure should not be put into the kids' minds. The drama comes from the parents and then the parents use the fact that the child is freaking out as a reason why the child should be in AAP.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2012 09:38     Subject: Why are the scores so high this year?
8:40 Those are super high scores and you are in for a ride keeping your DC challenged over the years. AAP probably won't cut it in the long run for everything your DC may need but it will help.

I have to disagree with you on several points. I do feel if we had "coached" our kids they would have been able to raise their scores - answering just one more question correctly could lead to the highest score possible. We didn't so we won't know but come on, we all know these testing companies for SAT. LSAT, MCAT ensure higher scores - heck even practice tests can.

Both our kids are in AAP level 4. One DC scored higher on the entrance tests overall than the other and to this day gets better grades - all As etc - with little effort. That DC tested in with scores that were all high, like your own DC.

Our other DC was at the cutoff - I think a point below so we referred. Perhaps an IQ test would show this DC's true intellectual capabilies, but we haven't taken DC for one and don't intend to. This DC has a wow factor intellectually (DC's thought process/advanced critical thinking) that many, even complete strangers, notice, often within a minute or two of speaking with DC. DC's grades and test scores hadn't reflected this prior to AAP, but over the years with AAP teachers that don't offer a free pass, DC is putting forth more effort than previously and it's paying off in many ways for DC's future.

We are grateful that DC has AAP because it's keeping DC engaged in learning - particularly the peer group, which DC really seems to need. We feel strongly that AAP helps prevent bright, unchallenged kids from dropping out of school.