Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're in your mid-30s and have been married 7 years, you didn't get married all that early! I was married in my early 20s, and we did talk about our plans to have kids even then. We had Kid 1 before we turned 30, and Kid 2 just after. I'd guess that the reason the issue never arose has less to do with your age at marriage than with the fact that kids weren't a priority for you, at least at that time.

I'm going to guess you are at least 38 or older. This is obviously a singular perspective, and I am not espousing a global norm, but in my experience there is a HUGE canyon between women born before and after about 1975, and the perspectives/norms that shaped their 20's. Those born before about '75 placed an earlier time frame on next step life goals. To a very large degree, the women I know in this age group had a preconceived concept of reaching marriage and starting families in their 30's. They all seemed to get their 20's out of their system in their 20's. Those younger than that cutoff raised the bar by about 10 years, and set mental goals of marriage and family for their 40's. It's not scientific by any stretch, and it's a very microscopic context, but I know several women separated in age by only 2 or 3 years that have drastically different perspectives on age/milestone expectations. And in all cases the younger women gave themselves MUCH more time to live the 20's lifestyle and achieve personal ambitions. Point being, the needle of attitude change was moved exponentially with women about that age. Interestingly, they also all seem to share a similar divide on their attitudes of waxing. It's almost as if denuding ourselves was the GenY version of bra burning.

You found me out--I was the pp and was born at the very end of Gen X.

After reading through these posts a couple things come to mind:

Biology - We are animals. Complicated animals with large brains living in a huge, interdependent society but animals nevertheless. And animals have a biological drive to procreate (not all of us and we have the choice whether to actually have children, whether 'naturally' or with technology or through adoption). Don't be shocked if one or both of you sometimes get an unexplainable desire to have kids. It's pretty normal.

Sleep - Sure, I miss the money and the free time of my old lifestyle but the lack of sleep during the first couple years of parenthood were a trial.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, I find it hard to believe that this topic never came up during courtship. The way I see it, either you have a kid that you will definitely not enjoy or not have a kid and you risk losing your marriage. Children are a deal breaker for most people so you will have to do some serious soul searching.
Did you marry for money?

It never came up during courtship because DH and I were 23 when we met, and having kids was not something that we could relate to at all. The concept of having kids never even entered my mind until I turned 30. DH certainly never brought it up before marriage or until our early 30's. I think I had a vague idea that maybe I wanted kids someday, but I never thought about it more than that because I really don't like kids very much. I have never felt a maternal desire for kids and I don't enjoy being around other people's kids. I always assumed I'd be an older mom, having my first kid in my late 30's.

I've changed my mind after reading this post. Between your attitude and your DH's long work hours, definitely do not have kids. You are not interested enough.

Anonymous wrote:If you're in your mid-30s and have been married 7 years, you didn't get married all that early! I was married in my early 20s, and we did talk about our plans to have kids even then. We had Kid 1 before we turned 30, and Kid 2 just after. I'd guess that the reason the issue never arose has less to do with your age at marriage than with the fact that kids weren't a priority for you, at least at that time.

I'm going to guess you are at least 38 or older. This is obviously a singular perspective, and I am not espousing a global norm, but in my experience there is a HUGE canyon between women born before and after about 1975, and the perspectives/norms that shaped their 20's. Those born before about '75 placed an earlier time frame on next step life goals. To a very large degree, the women I know in this age group had a preconceived concept of reaching marriage and starting families in their 30's. They all seemed to get their 20's out of their system in their 20's. Those younger than that cutoff raised the bar by about 10 years, and set mental goals of marriage and family for their 40's. It's not scientific by any stretch, and it's a very microscopic context, but I know several women separated in age by only 2 or 3 years that have drastically different perspectives on age/milestone expectations. And in all cases the younger women gave themselves MUCH more time to live the 20's lifestyle and achieve personal ambitions. Point being, the needle of attitude change was moved exponentially with women about that age. Interestingly, they also all seem to share a similar divide on their attitudes of waxing. It's almost as if denuding ourselves was the GenY version of bra burning.

Like many PPs, I would say that for me the experience of having children -- mine are now teens and young adults, ages 13-23 -- has been rich, joyful, and rewarding -- though also stressful and demanding. Becoming a parent changed my life and my marriage completely and many times over as our children got older and our family dynamic evolved. Ultimately, I feel like it has made me a better person -- more giving, open and aware -- and strengthened our marriage. When we were DINKs (both lawyers working crazy hours) I loved DH madly; today, I still love him madly, but my love has a component of respect and gratitude for his being such a menschy dad to the people I love most in this world -- even when they were being complete, though developmentally appropriate, jerks, and even when I wanted to send them to the moon (yeah, Newt, you've got competition for moon-mayor).

Having said this, OP, you sound so ambivalent that I would really hesitate to tell you to go for it. I've seen people who had kids because they thought it was just another ticket to punch along life's path or b/c one spouse wanted to have them -- and it's not pretty. Even when your kids are well beyond the intense caregiving stage of infancy, babyhood, the toddler and preschool years, your life will not return to DINK-hood or anything remotely resembling that until you're empty-nesters. Now those are the folks who are livin' la vida loca!

Anonymous wrote:Well, I find it hard to believe that this topic never came up during courtship. The way I see it, either you have a kid that you will definitely not enjoy or not have a kid and you risk losing your marriage. Children are a deal breaker for most people so you will have to do some serious soul searching.
Did you marry for money?

It never came up during courtship because DH and I were 23 when we met, and having kids was not something that we could relate to at all. The concept of having kids never even entered my mind until I turned 30. DH certainly never brought it up before marriage or until our early 30's. I think I had a vague idea that maybe I wanted kids someday, but I never thought about it more than that because I really don't like kids very much. I have never felt a maternal desire for kids and I don't enjoy being around other people's kids. I always assumed I'd be an older mom, having my first kid in my late 30's.

Well, I find it hard to believe that this topic never came up during courtship. The way I see it, either you have a kid that you will definitely not enjoy or not have a kid and you risk losing your marriage. Children are a deal breaker for most people so you will have to do some serious soul searching.
Did you marry for money?

I was married 9 years before we had our first - and traveled the world, partied, spent (and invested) lots of money - but one day we just decided we were ready for kids. I do miss the DINK lifestyle, but only sometimes. Mostly my kids are a complete joy and make the days so much better.

One idea - we got a dog about 2 years before my kids were born, because I wanted a dog - not as a test. But, the dog was a great way to introduce responsibility into our DINK lifestyle and get a sense of how our division of labor would work. I was the one feeding the dog, grooming him, trimming nails, walking, etc. DH loves the dog, but didn't really take care of the dog. Same is true today - DH helps with the kids, but the feeding, bathing, school paperwork, etc. is primarily my job. He's gotten much better at helping, but I am still the primary parent. Glad I knew that before I had kids!

FWIW, it is possible to live a semi-DINK lifestyle with one kid. With one, you can still eat out, travel, have time to yourself or for a hobby, assuming your spouse shares weekend childcare. No, it's not exactly the same, but you can still feel like an adult, even during the toddler/preschooler years. Once you have two or more, you're definitely in kid-land for awhile and the focus of your life changes in a more dramatic way. Luckily most of us have kids one at a time, so you can ease in and make one decision at a time.

I think the other factor to consider is how you and DH both feel about ART, adoption, and being an older parent. If you would be just as happy adopting a 4-year-old foster kid when you are in your late 40's, then there's no big rush. Even if you want your own genetic kids, you could go the ART route and freeze some embryos now, and you could have a child via surrogate later on. If, however, you wouldn't be open to the financial investment of adoption or surrogacy and you want the experience of pregnancy, and/or you don't want to have young kids when you are in your 40's or 50's (I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it should be a consideration how you and DH feel about that) then there is more pressure to decide right now.

In that case, I think you and DH do need to discuss his long hours. If he has a flexible schedule (so he could go in really early amd be home at a reasonable time, or stay home until after the morning routine, then miss bedtime) AND you both make enough to outsource a lot of things, then it could work, but you need to be clear on how muchof a sacrifice you expect before you get there.

OP, if your husband wants to correct the mistakes of a bad childhood or make peace with it or whatever, he'll never do if he works 70 hours a week. He needs to have a "come to Jesus" moment and realize that if he really wants children, he needs to make some professional adjustments.

Re: liking children as a prerequisite to having them. . .
I don't think it's actually all that necessary. I don't really like kids. I certainly don't like other people's children, although I hide it well. But I adore my own. (created kind of by accident!) Yes, they drive me crazy sometimes and I want to just slip into a hole and read the newspaper in peace and quiet for three hours. But I also just think they're the cutest, funniest, quirkiest, most endearing little creatures I could imagine. Often, I just sit and look at them and think, wow.

"Yes, this would be easy if not for the fact that DH really, really wants kids. And I understand why he wants kids. Part of it is because he had a crappy childhood, and has a bad relationship with his family and he wants to do it right now that he could be a dad."

Your DH may repeat his parents' mistakes and continue the bad cycle. An absentee husband and father will stick you with all of the boredom and drudgery of child care and housework. How will that be doing it "right" now?

Anonymous wrote:It is very very hard to give it up. I would not trade my kids for the world but I do miss those times.

+1

Not the partying, but things like the ability to travel, for instance. Now-- no money, no time, too much hassle. Life has lost its spontaneity.

12:30 - STFU before you get deleted, too. No one cares.

My husband and I lived the DINK lifestyle for 14 years before we had children so we had a big adjustment. Our lives are so different now. We enjoyed our lives back then and sometimes we do take a stroll down memory lane. It's nice to have those memories. Honestly, what I really miss is that feeling of not being totally responsible for another human being.