Anonymous
07/03/2013 13:24
Subject: Anyone's child not able to stay in AP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The thing is there is no evidence to support the claim that AAP hurts anyone, or costs anything.
Then who's paying for the AAP bus that comes through my neighborhood every morning (to pick up all of three kids)?
There are 4 AAP kids on DS's bus, but the bus is a full bus that includes gen ed kids that go to the center school. They try to add the AAP kids to an existing route. DC is the first stop so there might be someone talking about the bus that picks up all of one kid. The bus, however, is a full bus.
Anonymous
07/03/2013 13:02
Subject: Anyone's child not able to stay in AP?
Anonymous wrote:The thing is there is no evidence to support the claim that AAP hurts anyone, or costs anything.
Then who's paying for the AAP bus that comes through my neighborhood every morning (to pick up all of three kids)?
Anonymous
07/01/2013 07:44
Subject: Re:Anyone's child not able to stay in AP?
I have never seen FCPS post anything about high school performance of Gen Ed vs AAP center kids.
You could not compare the "average scores" but I would like to see some kind of analysis of the top 10%.
You could not compare the "average scores" but I would like to see some kind of analysis of the top 10%.
Anonymous
07/01/2013 07:33
Subject: Re:Anyone's child not able to stay in AP?
We went through the AAP program (then GT). Once you are in, you are in for the duration. A number of students dropped out of some of the classes -- usually math. It worked out fine, and no one judged (at least at our center). Some children do much, much better if they have a longer time to understand their math or other subject. There is plenty of time. The worst is to make your child hate school and feel that they cannot keep up. That is so not worth it. If they feel more like it later, you can always re-enter, perhaps with a better teacher. Not all AAP teachers are so wonderful, and that can be part of your decision as well.
Anonymous
07/01/2013 07:04
Subject: Re:Anyone's child not able to stay in AP?
Well at our school both the parents of GE students and AAP students can be off-putting because of the money they have. And I've seen parents of kids in travel teams act the same way as parents of AAP students. Parents of AAP students aren't the only ones who feel entitled.
It would be interesting to find out how much more AAP really costs compared to general ed. Our school's AAP class is very large and the other classes have at least 5 less children in them. I would think all the classes would need to be smaller if a teacher was supposed to teach the AAP students along with general ed and special ed. In Mongtomery County they are constantly complaining about not having enough differentiation in the classroom and teachers are complaining they already have to teach too many children at too many different levels.
It would be interesting to find out how much more AAP really costs compared to general ed. Our school's AAP class is very large and the other classes have at least 5 less children in them. I would think all the classes would need to be smaller if a teacher was supposed to teach the AAP students along with general ed and special ed. In Mongtomery County they are constantly complaining about not having enough differentiation in the classroom and teachers are complaining they already have to teach too many children at too many different levels.
Anonymous
06/30/2013 23:11
Subject: Anyone's child not able to stay in AP?
[quote=
The only problem for the gen ed classes is often the AAP parents are more involved so they have more parental involvement. That benefits both the AAP and non AAP children at the centers.
The only problem for the gen ed classes is often the AAP parents are more involved so they have more parental involvement. That benefits both the AAP and non AAP children at the centers.
I realize this is an old thread, but I'm going to comment anyway. This is patently untrue at my child's center school. The GE classes have always had more parent volunteers than the AAP classes. One example comes to mind: for the last field trip, one of the AAP classes had three chaperones cancel that morning, leaving that class scrambling at the last minute for extra chaperones.
I am one who absolutely agrees that AAP is simply a means of corraling the high-achievers into super-large classes. These are not gifted kids. They simply performed better on one crucial test and/or their parents lobbied and prepped to get them into AAP. There is no need for special centers for high-achieving students, and in fact, it's become something of a joke at our school among the parents. The center model was created to educate kids who otherwise could not be educated in a regular classroom. That might apply to a tiny percentage of all children, but not the masses they are admitting into AAP in recent years. The bar has been lowered to such an extent that there is nothing "gifted" about these kids whatsoever. Unfortunately, the parents of AAP kids seem to be telling their children that they are smarter and generally more special (??) than the GE kids and some of these obnoxious children enjoy repeating these comments to their GE peers. It's really sad that they have convinced themselves that they are somehow better and more entitled. I volunteer in school on a weekly basis and the GE kids are smart, down-to-earth, and genuinely funny. The AAP kids seem to be very literal, humorless, and dare I say it, arrogant. They speak to others as if they are used to talking down to people, including adults. Very off-putting.
Anonymous
01/19/2012 16:49
Subject: Anyone's child not able to stay in AP?
The thing is there is no evidence to support the claim that AAP hurts anyone, or costs anything. Every child in AAP would be getting an education in general ed. The differences in AAP are 1) the cohorts, and 2) the depth of the subject matter.
The advantage of the center vs. LLIV is critical mass. In local level IV, there will typically be about 5 kids in aap for each 2nd grade class. If the school has 3 2nd grade classes, there would be 15 kids in AAP, which means 1) the AAP students will be with the same kids for 4 years, and 2) they will bring in other kids on an ad hoc basis.
By having 5 or 6 schools fed into one center, you end up with 75-90+ kids, or 3 (possibly 4) classes, which means they can mix up the kids, and there is more potential for diversity.
The only problem for the gen ed classes is often the AAP parents are more involved so they have more parental involvement. That benefits both the AAP and non AAP children at the centers.
The advantage of the center vs. LLIV is critical mass. In local level IV, there will typically be about 5 kids in aap for each 2nd grade class. If the school has 3 2nd grade classes, there would be 15 kids in AAP, which means 1) the AAP students will be with the same kids for 4 years, and 2) they will bring in other kids on an ad hoc basis.
By having 5 or 6 schools fed into one center, you end up with 75-90+ kids, or 3 (possibly 4) classes, which means they can mix up the kids, and there is more potential for diversity.
The only problem for the gen ed classes is often the AAP parents are more involved so they have more parental involvement. That benefits both the AAP and non AAP children at the centers.
Anonymous
01/19/2012 14:04
Subject: Anyone's child not able to stay in AP?
I don't think getting rid of centers and putting those children back in the their ES would help any of the other kids in the ES. I have 1 child in AAP and 1 not. The AAP kid is happier learning at his faster pace. The other is happy that the 'smarter' kids are all gone so now she can rise to the top of her own class. Now she's the smart one in class. Even if the AAP kids moved back to the ES they would still be in a seperate classroom. So it wouldn't have any effect on the gen ed kids... except to keep reminded them that there is a GT class that they are not in?
Anonymous
01/19/2012 13:16
Subject: Anyone's child not able to stay in AP?
Anonymous wrote:PP: Here is the problem, different people have different abilities. People need to perform at their abilities, which means differentiated learning. Getting the more capable students a more in depth education is what we as a society need to do to remain competitive. If a child is smarter, they should be in more advanced classes.
Or is it all luck, and we are all the same?
[list]I do not see how you gatered from my post that I do not realize "different people have different abilities". Different people do not need a different "center" to provide different advancement. You, and others, need to look at the bigger picture of providing a "real" opportunity for all children to advance. FCPS may be pulling the wool over your eyes but not mine. The advanced curriculum needs to be brought back in to the all base schools and FCPS powers that be need to cut the crap!
Anonymous
01/19/2012 12:55
Subject: Anyone's child not able to stay in AP?
PP: Here is the problem, different people have different abilities. People need to perform at their abilities, which means differentiated learning. Getting the more capable students a more in depth education is what we as a society need to do to remain competitive. If a child is smarter, they should be in more advanced classes.
Or is it all luck, and we are all the same?
Or is it all luck, and we are all the same?
Anonymous
01/19/2012 12:39
Subject: Anyone's child not able to stay in AP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I feel as though you are saying there is something wrong with tracking and I am confused by that.
"Tracking" groups students with similar needs together which allows the teacher to create lesson plans focused on the needs of each group. The teacher can work more closely with each group, allowing them to progress more quickly in the subject matter.
Yes, one group may learn more quickly than another, but all the groups can be learning and progressing at the level that is the best fit for them. Sounds like a winning situation for all the students.
I don't think it is a matter of "deserving " and "undeserving" but rather a matter of finding the best fit to educate all the children. Kids don't all learn in the same way or at the same speed. I think our goal for our schools should be for all the students to be in a classroom with a teacher who can tailor his or her teaching to fit the needs of each student. The best and most efficient way to do that is to group students with similar learning needs together. All students deserve to be in a classroom atmosphere that is best suited to help them learn.
[list]
Here educate yourself a little:
[url]
http://www.edweek.org/ew/issues/tracking/[/url]
[list]So now that you have had a chance to read this short passage. Tell me the AAP program, as it is in the "center" enviornment, is offering all FCPS children the same education, and, that it is a good thing. I am not for mixing all abilities together but for giving every child a fair shot to advance. Providing advanced academics in elementary school to only a select few and making it very difficult to move children in and out of this program is a problem! So, putting the "advanced" classes back in base schools and allowing children to move into those classes when their performace shows they are ready is the best solution. Heck offer three or for levels of classes and allow all children a real opportunity to advance.
Anonymous
01/19/2012 12:18
Subject: Anyone's child not able to stay in AP?
Anonymous wrote:I feel as though you are saying there is something wrong with tracking and I am confused by that.
"Tracking" groups students with similar needs together which allows the teacher to create lesson plans focused on the needs of each group. The teacher can work more closely with each group, allowing them to progress more quickly in the subject matter.
Yes, one group may learn more quickly than another, but all the groups can be learning and progressing at the level that is the best fit for them. Sounds like a winning situation for all the students.
I don't think it is a matter of "deserving " and "undeserving" but rather a matter of finding the best fit to educate all the children. Kids don't all learn in the same way or at the same speed. I think our goal for our schools should be for all the students to be in a classroom with a teacher who can tailor his or her teaching to fit the needs of each student. The best and most efficient way to do that is to group students with similar learning needs together. All students deserve to be in a classroom atmosphere that is best suited to help them learn.
[list]
Here educate yourself a little:
[url]
http://www.edweek.org/ew/issues/tracking/[/url]
Anonymous
01/19/2012 12:03
Subject: Anyone's child not able to stay in AP?
I feel as though you are saying there is something wrong with tracking and I am confused by that.
"Tracking" groups students with similar needs together which allows the teacher to create lesson plans focused on the needs of each group. The teacher can work more closely with each group, allowing them to progress more quickly in the subject matter.
Yes, one group may learn more quickly than another, but all the groups can be learning and progressing at the level that is the best fit for them. Sounds like a winning situation for all the students.
I don't think it is a matter of "deserving " and "undeserving" but rather a matter of finding the best fit to educate all the children. Kids don't all learn in the same way or at the same speed. I think our goal for our schools should be for all the students to be in a classroom with a teacher who can tailor his or her teaching to fit the needs of each student. The best and most efficient way to do that is to group students with similar learning needs together. All students deserve to be in a classroom atmosphere that is best suited to help them learn.
"Tracking" groups students with similar needs together which allows the teacher to create lesson plans focused on the needs of each group. The teacher can work more closely with each group, allowing them to progress more quickly in the subject matter.
Yes, one group may learn more quickly than another, but all the groups can be learning and progressing at the level that is the best fit for them. Sounds like a winning situation for all the students.
I don't think it is a matter of "deserving " and "undeserving" but rather a matter of finding the best fit to educate all the children. Kids don't all learn in the same way or at the same speed. I think our goal for our schools should be for all the students to be in a classroom with a teacher who can tailor his or her teaching to fit the needs of each student. The best and most efficient way to do that is to group students with similar learning needs together. All students deserve to be in a classroom atmosphere that is best suited to help them learn.
Anonymous
01/19/2012 11:36
Subject: Re:Anyone's child not able to stay in AP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:IMO, the center needs to go! It is just plain wrong.
So glad it is very much a minority opinion.
[list]Not so sure about that. It is the minority of "Loud Mouthed", "Entitled", helicopter parents who have divided our education into the deserving and non-deserving. Tracking! Unfortunately, they are so "narrow-minded" they can't see passed their "Entitled" noses to realize other children deserve the very best education to. Not just the "Entitled" children they are raising.
Anonymous
01/19/2012 11:28
Subject: Anyone's child not able to stay in AP?
I think there is some confusion between the Advanced Academic Program (AAP) and Advanced Placement (AP). AAP is a level of services available for elementary and middle school students and is the new name for what used to be called the Gifted and Talented Program.
AP refers to the Advanced Placement exams and courses. These are available in individual college level subjects and present in high schools nationwide. In Fairfax County, any student can choose to take one or more of these courses and yes, the county does pay the $85 exam fee to the College Board. A student earning a particular score in the exam can earn college credit for that course.
AAP ends at the end of eighth grade. High schools in FCPS offer both honors and AP classes which are open to any student who wishes to choose them.
AP refers to the Advanced Placement exams and courses. These are available in individual college level subjects and present in high schools nationwide. In Fairfax County, any student can choose to take one or more of these courses and yes, the county does pay the $85 exam fee to the College Board. A student earning a particular score in the exam can earn college credit for that course.
AAP ends at the end of eighth grade. High schools in FCPS offer both honors and AP classes which are open to any student who wishes to choose them.