Anonymous wrote:So many non-believers are confusing a "religious" God with spirituality. The two are different.

Wrong. They're both metaphysical phenomena that have no support from any kind of evidence. They require "faith"--the willing suspension of disbelief. They're equally likely. Or unlikely as the case may be.

So many non-believers are confusing a "religious" God with spirituality. The two are different. These NDEs may have seen Jesus or God (however God is defined). But who's to say that our afterlife isn't created by our current belief system?

There's a passage in the book I'm reading now that claims that those who are stuck - w/o a belief system, for example, or blocked from moving on - are stuck in the afterlife. So maybe we do create our own meaning.

But to poke fun of people who have experienced life-altering experiences is just plain cruel - and steeped in ignorance. Our whole existence is fake. The earth gives us land, yet we pay people to farm for us. We pay stores to stock up on goods. There's water, but we pay for that. Money is just paper and metal. We have so many ridiculous laws to govern our every move b/c sadly, we can't govern ourselves. We need fear to keep us on the "right" path.

So how can you question that this world is the end all? Our existence is pathetic. We're small creatures in a vast universe. And who's to say that IF I could use all of my mind, I wouldn't see Whoville right by my side.

Anything is possible. But so many of you can't pass the concrete to move into the abstract. So you remain stuck.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My grandfather had a NDE when he had a heart attack in his late 40s. He was pronounced dead, but he revived some time later. He was already a man of deep faith, so he felt no need to talk about the details of the experience, but he lived the next 30+ years with great peace, love, and joy.

For those with no faith, no metaphysical mystery will be great enough to instill awe. There are so many things about the human experience that defy understanding. I read The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven with interest, and I've been meaning to take Heaven is for Real out of the library. I find the stories intriguing. But they are not necessary for my faith.

I do wonder about those who don't know or care about the possibility of an afterlife. The degree of confidence you must have in materialism goes far beyond the confidence most people have in God. Why so certain when you have no material evidence you are correct?

The problem with your hypothesis is that just about any mythos--from Poseidon, to Cthulhu, to Christ, to FSM, to No Gods At All--is equally likely given the evidence. It's nice you've found a story that gives you comfort though.

The problem I have with your posts is that you say that all of these things being true are "equally likely," but then you keep making statements to the effect that a belief in God is unequivocally false. If you admit that we truly don't know, then why aren't you open to the possibility that God does exist?

Sorry, you're right, obviously. For completeness' sake: Poseidon? As likely as God. Flying Spaghetti Monster? Equally likely. In fact, the it's just as likely that there's a Pantheon of these characters who all exist somewhere and who are taking notes, preparing to judge us when we die. Or it could just be a giant unicorn.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My grandfather had a NDE when he had a heart attack in his late 40s. He was pronounced dead, but he revived some time later. He was already a man of deep faith, so he felt no need to talk about the details of the experience, but he lived the next 30+ years with great peace, love, and joy.

For those with no faith, no metaphysical mystery will be great enough to instill awe. There are so many things about the human experience that defy understanding. I read The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven with interest, and I've been meaning to take Heaven is for Real out of the library. I find the stories intriguing. But they are not necessary for my faith.

I do wonder about those who don't know or care about the possibility of an afterlife. The degree of confidence you must have in materialism goes far beyond the confidence most people have in God. Why so certain when you have no material evidence you are correct?

The problem with your hypothesis is that just about any mythos--from Poseidon, to Cthulhu, to Christ, to FSM, to No Gods At All--is equally likely given the evidence. It's nice you've found a story that gives you comfort though.

The problem I have with your posts is that you say that all of these things being true are "equally likely," but then you keep making statements to the effect that a belief in God is unequivocally false. If you admit that we truly don't know, then why aren't you open to the possibility that God does exist?

Sorry, you're right, obviously. For completeness' sake: Poseidon? As likely as God. Flying Spaghetti Monster? Equally likely. In fact, the it's just as likely that there's a Pantheon of these characters who all exist somewhere and who are taking notes, preparing to judge us when we die. Or it could just be a giant unicorn.

And, before you start special pleading about how anyone who doesn't honor your particular set of irrational beliefs for which there is no evidence, I'd like to say that my dog is actually the reincarnation of the Creator of the universe, and judges all of us from my sofa. And don't you dare mock or belittle that belief, otherwise you're just a really, really evil person.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My grandfather had a NDE when he had a heart attack in his late 40s. He was pronounced dead, but he revived some time later. He was already a man of deep faith, so he felt no need to talk about the details of the experience, but he lived the next 30+ years with great peace, love, and joy.

For those with no faith, no metaphysical mystery will be great enough to instill awe. There are so many things about the human experience that defy understanding. I read The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven with interest, and I've been meaning to take Heaven is for Real out of the library. I find the stories intriguing. But they are not necessary for my faith.

I do wonder about those who don't know or care about the possibility of an afterlife. The degree of confidence you must have in materialism goes far beyond the confidence most people have in God. Why so certain when you have no material evidence you are correct?

The problem with your hypothesis is that just about any mythos--from Poseidon, to Cthulhu, to Christ, to FSM, to No Gods At All--is equally likely given the evidence. It's nice you've found a story that gives you comfort though.

The problem I have with your posts is that you say that all of these things being true are "equally likely," but then you keep making statements to the effect that a belief in God is unequivocally false. If you admit that we truly don't know, then why aren't you open to the possibility that God does exist?

Sorry, you're right, obviously. For completeness' sake: Poseidon? As likely as God. Flying Spaghetti Monster? Equally likely. In fact, the it's just as likely that there's a Pantheon of these characters who all exist somewhere and who are taking notes, preparing to judge us when we die. Or it could just be a giant unicorn.

sorry, 13:39 - I would not say I felt anything particularly important or spiritual. I was not called back or anything. No lights or voices.

I almost died during childbirth - my organs failed and my heart stopped. I remember people yelling at me to hold on and then resuscitating me, but all I wanted to do was go to sleep. I felt very very tired. I remember feeling like I was being very naughty for wanting to sleep even though they were trying to make me stay awake - like I had just gotten busted stealing cookies or something. I remember that they gave me some really strong dose of something in my IV that snapped me back and it felt like a rubber band. My heart started and things got very very sharp and focused and I suddenly remembered that I had a child and started to respond. But when I was dying, all I could think about was going to sleep.

I would not

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/10/25/does-time-exist/

interesting debate

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Anonymous wrote:

I mean that the standard model of physics does not allow for information to travel from the future to the past. If it does, cause and effect is broken and time itself is an illusion.[u] The magnitude of this is why physicists are going crazy over the possibility of particles going faster than the speed of light, because that could possibly break the one way nature of time. Anything is possible because scientists cannot ever say that a theory is proven truth, but it means that our standard model physics is wrong in a really important way.

The example of the diamond crystals is the exact opposite. This is confirmation of quantum entanglement, which is a really strange result of the theory of quantum mechanics. It was so strange that it was hard to believe - even for Eistein. But since then we have done many, many experiments in quantum entanglement. The unusual nature of this experiment was the size and temperature of the diamond crystals. Normally it is hard to observe quantum effects on big objects (and by big I mean 3 mm across), but it is predicted. So this experiment confirms yet again what scientists have believed for 80 years.