Anonymous
05/02/2012 11:00
Subject: Would the use of Everyday math turn you off?
Haven't seen that much about the role of parents in all this. EDM has its pros and cons; ultimately as parents we have responsibility to be involved, to compliment/supplement as needed in all areas. It doesn't have to mean tutors or Kumon either; it could be you spending time teaching them as well. There are plenty of free educational sites with math problems if rote memorization is your primary concern.
I'd be interested in a study to see how many parents who complain about EDM and tout the benefits of their traditional math education do on tests that recall what they learned as children.
I'd be interested in a study to see how many parents who complain about EDM and tout the benefits of their traditional math education do on tests that recall what they learned as children.
Anonymous
05/02/2012 11:00
Subject: Would the use of Everyday math turn you off?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I think you must be a EDM troll, paid to make positive remarks. I have found more negative information regarding this program than any other educational program in history.
I am not an EDM troll or even much of a booster. If you go back and read my post you'll see I wrote that I specifically chose a school that did not use EDM for one of my children because I didn't think it was the right approach for him. My point was that it works well for some kids and not well for others and I think its ridiculous to pin the fall of western civilization or whatever on this one approach to teaching math. Its one option out there and since this is the private school forum, parents are exercising some choice over their children's schools and can pick a school that doesn't use EDM if its important to them. But I do think there is some hysteria here about it, and some real inaccuracies.
Also, you should calm down. Go get a popsicle.
Anonymous
05/02/2012 10:57
Subject: Would the use of Everyday math turn you off?
SAM2 wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think you must be a EDM troll, paid to make positive remarks. I have found more negative information regarding this program than any other educational program in history.
I'm not the person you're quoting, but I think it's ridiculous to think there's conclusive and incontrovertible evidence condemning EDM. I've seen lots of studies and other objective proof that suggest EDM can be a strong and effective curriculum. Of course, people who dislike EDM say those studies are biased, and that the positive student gains are attributable to something other than the EDM curriculum. And conversely, the supporters of reform mathematics methods like EDM use the exact same arguments when they criticize traditional math curriculum approaches.
In the end, it seems to me that some students -- and some teachers -- will do better with one approach versus the other. All the different curriculum approaches have their merits, and their weaknesses. If a school has good math teachers, it seems the most effective strategy would be to allow the teachers to mix-and-match whatever approaches they can teach best, and individualize those strategies on-the-fly to match what each student needs. But I recognize my "best practices" suggestion is naive, since not all math teachers have the trust of their administrators, and not all schools (particularly public school districts) can be so easily flexible with their curriculum.
Nevertheless, to me, saying that the math curriculum your school uses is the root problem of the school's math woes seems similar to pinning all your complaints to a teacher that lets students use pencils rather than pens.
Also, as an aside, after reading about the fierce competition among textbook publishers, and the serious money they pump into lobbying efforts to have their curriculum products adopted by school districts, I mistrust most of the supposedly non-partisan groups that advocate one direction or the other on these topics.
FWIW, that's my 2 cents.
SAM2 is right. There are plenty of empirical data suggesting that EDM can be an effective curriculum - more data than on many other math curricula. There is also reason to be skeptical of those who advocate in either direction. (And what's with all the right-wingers who hate EDM?)
FWIW, a professor I trust tells me the success of EDM -- or any curriculum -- depends on the quality of the training provided to teachers and support staff. It's important to ask schools about this, regardless of the curriculum used.
Anonymous
05/02/2012 10:36
Subject: Re:Would the use of Everyday math turn you off?
Anonymous wrote:EDM is not ideal for anyone
Sorry, should have been: EDM is not ideal for everyone.
Anonymous
05/02/2012 10:28
Subject: Would the use of Everyday math turn you off?
The main problem with math education in the US is NOT the use of EDM (or the dearth of Singapore Math, for that matter), it's that we have teachers who don't know math well enough to teach it.
You can take a mediocre math "curriculum" in the hands of someone who really knows math (e.g., a math major in college, with graduate work in math) and, assuming that this person can translate concepts in an age-appropriate, engaging way, I assure you that the students will do well in math. However, you can't just thrust a math curriculum into the hands of a teacher who has little theoretical knowledge of math and expect students to do well.
It all boils down to the deep knowledge base of the teacher, and his/her teaching abilities, not one math curriculum or another.
You can take a mediocre math "curriculum" in the hands of someone who really knows math (e.g., a math major in college, with graduate work in math) and, assuming that this person can translate concepts in an age-appropriate, engaging way, I assure you that the students will do well in math. However, you can't just thrust a math curriculum into the hands of a teacher who has little theoretical knowledge of math and expect students to do well.
It all boils down to the deep knowledge base of the teacher, and his/her teaching abilities, not one math curriculum or another.
SAM2
05/02/2012 10:06
Subject: Would the use of Everyday math turn you off?
Anonymous wrote:I think you must be a EDM troll, paid to make positive remarks. I have found more negative information regarding this program than any other educational program in history.
I'm not the person you're quoting, but I think it's ridiculous to think there's conclusive and incontrovertible evidence condemning EDM. I've seen lots of studies and other objective proof that suggest EDM can be a strong and effective curriculum. Of course, people who dislike EDM say those studies are biased, and that the positive student gains are attributable to something other than the EDM curriculum. And conversely, the supporters of reform mathematics methods like EDM use the exact same arguments when they criticize traditional math curriculum approaches.
In the end, it seems to me that some students -- and some teachers -- will do better with one approach versus the other. All the different curriculum approaches have their merits, and their weaknesses. If a school has good math teachers, it seems the most effective strategy would be to allow the teachers to mix-and-match whatever approaches they can teach best, and individualize those strategies on-the-fly to match what each student needs. But I recognize my "best practices" suggestion is naive, since not all math teachers have the trust of their administrators, and not all schools (particularly public school districts) can be so easily flexible with their curriculum.
Nevertheless, to me, saying that the math curriculum your school uses is the root problem of the school's math woes seems similar to pinning all your complaints to a teacher that lets students use pencils rather than pens.
Also, as an aside, after reading about the fierce competition among textbook publishers, and the serious money they pump into lobbying efforts to have their curriculum products adopted by school districts, I mistrust most of the supposedly non-partisan groups that advocate one direction or the other on these topics.
FWIW, that's my 2 cents.
Anonymous
05/02/2012 10:01
Subject: Re:Would the use of Everyday math turn you off?
I agree with 8:37. I have known many kids, mine included, who learned just fine with EDM. If you suspect yours would not, that is a good reason to look more closely at a school's math program, but otherwise it would be shortsighted to rule a school out simply because it uses EDM -- especially since most of the better known schools using EDM supplement with a variety of materials.
EDM is not ideal for anyone -- no curriculum is -- but I think it's being given much too much power in these debates. American children do not perform more poorly on math tests than Israeli or Singaporean children because of the curriculum they use. They perform more poorly because American parents in general do not value education in general and math specifically as highly as parents in high-performing countries. That doesn't mean that parents in other countries are necessarily right to prioritize math education over things like athletics, drama, community service, and just hanging out. But there is a trade-off.
EDM is not ideal for anyone -- no curriculum is -- but I think it's being given much too much power in these debates. American children do not perform more poorly on math tests than Israeli or Singaporean children because of the curriculum they use. They perform more poorly because American parents in general do not value education in general and math specifically as highly as parents in high-performing countries. That doesn't mean that parents in other countries are necessarily right to prioritize math education over things like athletics, drama, community service, and just hanging out. But there is a trade-off.
Anonymous
05/02/2012 09:41
Subject: Would the use of Everyday math turn you off?
Anonymous wrote:My kids are past elementary age and I find it very odd that you can blame anything on EDM. When my oldest (now in high school) was in elementary it was brand spanking new and few schools used it. I can't imagine that a curriculum that is both fairly new and not used throughout the country (perhaps it has permeated privates in DC, but nationally and in public schools, I don't think so) would have much of an impact on national test scores.
Israeli schools are focused like a laser on math and sciences and their kids do very well in those areas and will regardless of the curriculum. But I have heard many complaints about every other aspect of their school system -- the humanities, how well the students learn to write. These things matter as well.
And in my experience no school uses purely EDM, they all supplement with some rote learning.
Some kids respond well to EDM and some don't. if you have some sense of how your child learns math you can approach the selection of a school with that in mind. One of my children is in a school that uses a much more concrete approach for that reason. EDM is a tool for encouraging kids to develop abstract mathematical thinking. Maybe its not for everyone but I certainly wouldn't make broader judgments about a school based on their use of this curriculum.
I think you must be a EDM troll, paid to make positive remarks. I have found more negative information regarding this program than any other educational program in history.
Anonymous
05/02/2012 08:37
Subject: Would the use of Everyday math turn you off?
My kids are past elementary age and I find it very odd that you can blame anything on EDM. When my oldest (now in high school) was in elementary it was brand spanking new and few schools used it. I can't imagine that a curriculum that is both fairly new and not used throughout the country (perhaps it has permeated privates in DC, but nationally and in public schools, I don't think so) would have much of an impact on national test scores.
Israeli schools are focused like a laser on math and sciences and their kids do very well in those areas and will regardless of the curriculum. But I have heard many complaints about every other aspect of their school system -- the humanities, how well the students learn to write. These things matter as well.
And in my experience no school uses purely EDM, they all supplement with some rote learning.
Some kids respond well to EDM and some don't. if you have some sense of how your child learns math you can approach the selection of a school with that in mind. One of my children is in a school that uses a much more concrete approach for that reason. EDM is a tool for encouraging kids to develop abstract mathematical thinking. Maybe its not for everyone but I certainly wouldn't make broader judgments about a school based on their use of this curriculum.
Israeli schools are focused like a laser on math and sciences and their kids do very well in those areas and will regardless of the curriculum. But I have heard many complaints about every other aspect of their school system -- the humanities, how well the students learn to write. These things matter as well.
And in my experience no school uses purely EDM, they all supplement with some rote learning.
Some kids respond well to EDM and some don't. if you have some sense of how your child learns math you can approach the selection of a school with that in mind. One of my children is in a school that uses a much more concrete approach for that reason. EDM is a tool for encouraging kids to develop abstract mathematical thinking. Maybe its not for everyone but I certainly wouldn't make broader judgments about a school based on their use of this curriculum.
Anonymous
05/02/2012 07:59
Subject: Would the use of Everyday math turn you off?
Anonymous
05/02/2012 07:57
Subject: Would the use of Everyday math turn you off?
Everyday Math the joke is on the students.
http://southorange.patch.com/articles/district-math-changes-this-year-and-next
http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/15012581/goodbye-everyday-math-hello-envision-in-hamilton-co-schools
http://www.nychold.com/em.html
http://www.adn.com/2011/09/29/2095945/anchorage-school-officials-recommend.html
http://southorange.patch.com/articles/district-math-changes-this-year-and-next
http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/15012581/goodbye-everyday-math-hello-envision-in-hamilton-co-schools
http://www.nychold.com/em.html
http://www.adn.com/2011/09/29/2095945/anchorage-school-officials-recommend.html
Anonymous
05/02/2012 07:53
Subject: Would the use of Everyday math turn you off?
EDM is a joke.
Anonymous
10/31/2011 10:17
Subject: Re:Would the use of Everyday math turn you off?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Do your own homework.
So many things wrong with EDM. Terrible for the kids at the top who get the concept the first time but still have to spiral back. Does not go deeply into concepts, introduces them and then sprints to the next idea. Research what Math professors were saying about this program several years ago. EDM is just another educational darling in a long list of new math curricula "darlings". These are often touted as math for the not math types. Always appealing to teachers in elementary skills because they are not known to be college math majors. Yes, I said it. Elementary school teachers do not understand math very well and have often not taken very much.
Typical bullshit. All talk and no proof. Put up or shut up.
Clever response.
http://www.lit.net/orschools/everydaymath2.htm
http://www.nychold.com/report-klein-em-00.html
http://eklhad.net/chimath.html
http://www.mathematicallycorrect.com/everyday.htm
Anonymous
10/31/2011 09:38
Subject: Re:Would the use of Everyday math turn you off?
Anonymous wrote:Do your own homework.
So many things wrong with EDM. Terrible for the kids at the top who get the concept the first time but still have to spiral back. Does not go deeply into concepts, introduces them and then sprints to the next idea. Research what Math professors were saying about this program several years ago. EDM is just another educational darling in a long list of new math curricula "darlings". These are often touted as math for the not math types. Always appealing to teachers in elementary skills because they are not known to be college math majors. Yes, I said it. Elementary school teachers do not understand math very well and have often not taken very much.
Typical bullshit. All talk and no proof. Put up or shut up.
Anonymous
10/31/2011 09:17
Subject: Re:Would the use of Everyday math turn you off?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Interesting points. But really, a good textbook is one that studies show teach kids math better than other textbooks. Like Singapore Math.
Please provide links to these studies. Thanks.
Do your own homework.
So many things wrong with EDM. Terrible for the kids at the top who get the concept the first time but still have to spiral back. Does not go deeply into concepts, introduces them and then sprints to the next idea. Research what Math professors were saying about this program several years ago. EDM is just another educational darling in a long list of new math curricula "darlings". These are often touted as math for the not math types. Always appealing to teachers in elementary skills because they are not known to be college math majors. Yes, I said it. Elementary school teachers do not understand math very well and have often not taken very much.