You're welcome.

PP -- not the OP but I wanted to say thank you for your input.

Hi OP. I'm a new poster here- a public school administrator. If you are still reading after the recent rather harsh postings, I'd like to offer you some different advice. First, I commend you for all the thought you have put into this situation and for wanting to help your DD process it. Next, I want to say that from reading the threads and your daughter's version of the story, I personally have NO IDEA what happened in the classroom, whether your daughter was bullying or if it was just a one-time fight between two girls. I think you've been pretty forthcoming here, but there still isn't enough evidence for us to understand what happened or why the discipline decisions were made.

I think you need to ask to speak with the admin or school counselor in order to understand why they labeled the altercation as an example of bullying. It is critical for you to know this if you are going to support your daughter and support the school in having a safe and orderly environment.

You seem very reasonable to me. If you found out that your daughter had a reputation for meanness in the school and had been observed multiple times in questionable situations, I imagine you would react and structure your home conversations very differently. I imagine you would take that seriously and would want to understand what was causing your daughter to bully other children.

I suggest that you ask for a meeting, not to complain about the harsh messaging but to try and understand it. If you discover that from the school's perspective, this was an isolated, one-time incident with your DD, I think it would be appropriate for you to share with the admin the concerns you have about your daughter being ostracized for making one mistake. On the other hand, if there is more going on, you need to ask the school for suggestions about what you can do to help your daughter change her behavior.

Good luck.

So sorry, OP, but now that I have read your fuller description, I think you just have to suck it up and get your kid to move on. Sounds to me like you've said all the correct things to her in terms of her not doing this again and figuring out better ways to handle a dispute like this.

But even if the school was overly harsh in their reaction, frankly, I can imagine what it was like for the other girl to choose to sit in another desk and then have someone pressure her in a very mean way to move. Your daughter did not have an automatic right to that seat. Actually I'm impressed that the other girl had the courage to stand up to your daughter.

Sorry but I think you have to chalk this one up to learning a difficult lesson. Sometimes the consequences are too harsh but your daughter needs to learn to deal with it.

I am somewhat confused, or maybe I missed a post, but OP, at one point I thought you mentioned that the OG was of a different ethnic background and that there is polarization between the different groups at your school--that it was even brought up at a PTA meeting. Somewhere else I read that your DD and OG are same ethnic background? I am just trying to make sense of the whole situation.

Bitch Poster here again.

Went to an all girls religious school. I excluded people, bitched behind their backs, was part of gossipy cliques, cried, said I hated people etc. Par for the course at the school.

But I never ordered people out of seats, I never picked fights with people like that. Honestly, no one did. In my school, that would have been called bullying. And btw, just because the other girl didn't react like a "victim" doesn't mean your daughter is not a bully. I'm sure if the other girl professed some middle class buzz word like "anxiety", OP would have been all over it. The truth is that girls like the OP's DD and I'm sure the OP herself probably rely on "misunderstandings" and "plausible deniability" to excuse their behavior in many contexts. "I'm sorry you were offended" is their mantra (I'm guessing).

Wonder where DH is in all this.

I am a PP and, now that you have described the incident, it is actually worse than I thought.

I thought it was just some back and forth about a seat. In truth, your daughter tried to “strong-arm” the girl into moving. It was not bullying ONLY because the OG held her ground and refused. This was attempted bullying. The OG and her parents are probably pissed because of that. In their minds, if OG had moved this time, your DD would be insisting that she move from now on. And then other kids would see this and they would pile on. So I agree with them….you send the strongest message the first time and it deters future potential bullies. To paraphrase an earlier statement, your DD messed with the wrong person at the wrong time. That’s life. Sorry. Use it to teach.

As for some of the other PP’s who think DD was provoked. So – sitting in an unreserved seat is provocation? If that is the case, OP and her DD are in for a difficult time the rest of MS and HS. It would be different if OG saw DD heading for the seat and ran to beat her to it. That does not seem like the case here.

- The OP minimizes her daughter's behavior, focusing on the word slut instead of the fact that her daughter walked over to another girl and ordered her out of her seat and then insulted her. This is bullying behavior. Bullies tell people where they can and cannot go and what they can and cannot do. This is not normal "girl behavior". It's a bitch move.
- The OP wants the school to apologize to her DD for punishing her
- The OP is angry at the OG's parents for doing their job (protecting their daughter) and instead of calling them to apologize or even straighten it out, she is defiant.
- The OP is telling her daughter to "play by the rules" instead of telling her what she did is wrong.
- The OP is convinced that this is the fault of affirmative action.

I agree with this. OP's account makes it seem like her daughter was the reasonable party right up until she used the word slut. She remonstrated with the OG, asking her why she sat there, being perfectly polite, while the OG escalated, and was rude and confrontational. And OP got her wish - other PPs have posted, "the OG was trying to provoke." I simply don't believe it. Either OP presented us with a sanitized version, or her daughter did and she bought it hook, line and sinker (the more likely scenario). And that's a large part of the problem here - OP, it's your responsibility to be a little sceptical af the accounts that minimize your daughter's wrongdoing. And the nonsense about you can't call to apologize, because they're so angry? Just letting your daughter off the hook again.

Your reality. Why accept this as the norm?

In other cultures, there is no expectation for the teens to be rude. Therefore it is not the norm.


PP did you go to middle school? or to any school? Or to work? Just curious, because it sounds like you might live in a bubble.

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, reading this thread, a lot of you are being totally ridiculous.

What OP's daughter did was mean and hurtful, no doubt about that. But the other girl was not being a sweet little flower at all.

Bullying is not a one time incident in which both parties played an active roll. Yes, OPs daughter was in the wrong but the other girl was very clearly doing what she was doing to specifically annoy/irritate OPs daughter. I actually think the other girl seems like she may sit in this particular chair specifically to upset OPs daughter.

She should have had a consequence for cursing at the girl but it should not have ended up at this level. I mean, its middle school, this is what happens between kids every day, all the time. Not saying that its OK but it is reality.

Your reality. Why accept this as the norm?

In other cultures, there is no expectation for the teens to be rude. Therefore it is not the norm.

Frankly, reading this thread, a lot of you are being totally ridiculous.

What OP's daughter did was mean and hurtful, no doubt about that. But the other girl was not being a sweet little flower at all.

Bullying is not a one time incident in which both parties played an active roll. Yes, OPs daughter was in the wrong but the other girl was very clearly doing what she was doing to specifically annoy/irritate OPs daughter. I actually think the other girl seems like she may sit in this particular chair specifically to upset OPs daughter.

She should have had a consequence for cursing at the girl but it should not have ended up at this level. I mean, its middle school, this is what happens between kids every day, all the time. Not saying that its OK but it is reality.

"Bitch" PP here again. Yeah, here's a tip. Please don't be such a puritan. Cuss words are not some strange species of word that are evil. They denote content, the same as other words. That's why "slut" is such a strange one here. If the DD had said "bitch", then I think it would be a different conversation. She might have been in trouble for cursing at school BUT I can imagine being rude, nasty = bitch. I personally think DD was the one doing that but fine. But "slut" means promiscuous. It means cheap, whore, tramp. That's why I still don't believe that we are getting the full story. Words have meaning, whether the OP believes it or not.

As for the OP
- The OP minimizes her daughter's behavior, focusing on the word slut instead of the fact that her daughter walked over to another girl and ordered her out of her seat and then insulted her. This is bullying behavior. Bullies tell people where they can and cannot go and what they can and cannot do. This is not normal "girl behavior". It's a bitch move.
- The OP wants the school to apologize to her DD for punishing her
- The OP is angry at the OG's parents for doing their job (protecting their daughter) and instead of calling them to apologize or even straighten it out, she is defiant.
- The OP is telling her daughter to "play by the rules" instead of telling her what she did is wrong.
- The OP is convinced that this is the fault of affirmative action.

No taking of responsibility by the OP and I'm sure by DD, who is of course a delicate innocent angel flower provoked by the evil OG.

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP who called the OP's DD a bitch. I just want to be clear. There's nothing wrong with being a bitch. It's describing a set of behaviors, not condemning the daughter to hell. I'm just saying that she sounds like she's a bitchy child. Maybe I should say Mean Girl instead? It's just weird because the OP seems determined to blame everyone else so it just seems likely that her DD is not as "sweet" as she thinks and this is not as "out of character".

Also the PP who thinks the OG "provoked" her is a bit insane.

"Bitch" is not a behavior set. It is a cuss word too.

Have you read this thread? If you have you probably would not think the OP was blaming everyone else. She has blamed her DD for the bad behavior and has enforced consequences. So, what made you think she is not holding her accountable? You are again judging the DD without knowing her. Assumption builds bias and anyone in bias should not be in a position to advise others.