Anonymous wrote:OP, I don't think I saw a response to the question what your DH does when your son gives you an attitude. How does he respond? He does sound somewhat spoiled and entitled and the fact that he is aware of the grandparents, and I'm assuming your, wealth probably doesn't help. Do you like his teammates and the other kids he hangs around? Just curious if he attends a single sex school. I think they're great for some boys, for others not so much. I would also limit or deactivate his facebook and take away the xbox. Sounds like you're shouldering most of this and DH needs to come down hard on him and giving him no option but to improve.

Anonymous wrote:Apathy is one of the most frustrating things to deal with in a teenager. It basically gives you no leverage because if they value nothing, then you have nothing to take away. I think (and hope) it's a phase. My son goes in and out of these moods as well, it's normal. They're hormonal and dealing with feelings they never dealt with. However, the one time my son called me a name or disrespected me, I put a dollop of liquid soap in his mouth. Flame away, I'd do it again. He has not done it since.

Anonymous wrote:
Please, posters, have fewer than 4 children so your attention isn't spread thin. I beg you.

Signed, one of 4 who stopped at 2

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I haven't had time to read all the comments so someone may have already said this. I agree with you that rudeness is unacceptable. Your kid is acting like a jerk. You shouldn't let him act that way without challenging him on that.

On the other hand, I wonder if you and your husband are being fair to him. Sounds like he is doing okay in school and sports. No, he is not living up to your standards and he is in for a surprise if he thinks he will get into the very top schools with his grades such as they are. But the fact is that he is doing well and will get into some decent schools.

He will need to come to terms with matching his effort to his ambitions but you can't "punish" that in to him. You can make it clear that his perceptions don't match reality but you can't force him to be different. And I suspect he may be reacting oppositionally because he feels like you're too hard on him.

So here's my bottom line. I agree that it is frustrating to see your kid not live up to his potential (been there done that) but he's doing fine compared to a lot of other kids I know. I suggest holding the line on the rudeness but realizing that he's got to sort out the ambition stuff for himself and giving him some slack on that.

Good luck! Sounds like a tough time for you all!.

Just wanted to clarify that his school work isn't really an issue, his rudeness is, along with his crappy attitude towards us. Even though his missing work annoys me I don't bother him about it. I can check it on Edline and I do see the work is missing, but as long as his grades are above a C I don't even mention it to him. His grades are his to maintain and I do not nag him about them. We evaluate his grades when interims and report cards are sent home. If grades drop then his father and I start monitoring Edline more closely, or if a teacher contacts us (which has happened). I try not to interfere with school and let him manage his assignments, he's almost off to college and needs to learn to organize his studies himself.

We discuss college expectations with him, but that's on him at this point. We've talked about school and I know which schools he'd like to apply to. The future is his. How hard he works will determine where he goes. I cannot do the work for him or force him to do his best. I advise him, and I encourage him but I have no unrealistic expectation on him, quite the opposite. He feels he is going to be accepted everywhere he applies, I have gently tried to explain to him that isn't going to be the case and that this year is so important to his future. I would never "punish" him for not getting into a great school. He knows how important it is, I just don't think he realizes how tough the competition really is.

Anonymous wrote:Please, posters, have fewer than 4 children so your attention isn't spread thin. I beg you.

Signed, one of 4 who stopped at 2

Anonymous wrote:OP, I haven't had time to read all the comments so someone may have already said this. I agree with you that rudeness is unacceptable. Your kid is acting like a jerk. You shouldn't let him act that way without challenging him on that.

On the other hand, I wonder if you and your husband are being fair to him. Sounds like he is doing okay in school and sports. No, he is not living up to your standards and he is in for a surprise if he thinks he will get into the very top schools with his grades such as they are. But the fact is that he is doing well and will get into some decent schools.

He will need to come to terms with matching his effort to his ambitions but you can't "punish" that in to him. You can make it clear that his perceptions don't match reality but you can't force him to be different. And I suspect he may be reacting oppositionally because he feels like you're too hard on him.

So here's my bottom line. I agree that it is frustrating to see your kid not live up to his potential (been there done that) but he's doing fine compared to a lot of other kids I know. I suggest holding the line on the rudeness but realizing that he's got to sort out the ambition stuff for himself and giving him some slack on that.

Good luck! Sounds like a tough time for you all!.

Anonymous wrote:OP, even though it doesn't sound like your teen has an explosive temperament (maybe he is too laid back/"lazy" to explode on you!) you might find some of the methods and approaches in "The Explosive Child" useful. You can also see some of these approaches here on Thinkkids.org

http://thinkkids.org/approach/

It sounds like this teen just is wired differently than your other three. And you probably feel like others will criticise you for allowing him to get away with things, so you are very strict with him, and clearly your other three children don't behave this way, so your parenting can't be what's at fault.

But if he is wired differently from your other kids, then you need a different approach with him. My guess is he isn't lazy; he may well be both gifted and organizationally challenged, and instead of "trying harder" he has just started saying it doesn't matter/he doesn't care.

he might also have a more severe reaction than most children to being ordered around, reminded, nagged. That PLUS being forgetful PLUS having a mom who is really paying attention and on his case all the time (for perfectly admirable reasons!) PLUS being a teen might all be creating the perfect storm of negativity and oppositional defiance, you know?

So you get this situation: He makes himself a snack and doesn't clean up the mess when he is done, because he just doesn't think to do it. You see it and get exasperated... and tell him (nicely in your mind because why shoudl you have to tell a 16 year old to throw out the empty bag) to toss the bag before dinner. he cops an attitude now because you are attempting to control him... and refuses to do it, just on principle. And calls you a bitch. As a result, you refuse to allow him any priviledges or allowance.

Does that basically describe what is going on every day between the two of you?

If so -- you can't give him his allowance or privileges, because that would be caving. But also -- the punishments you are using don't seem to be working. Your only option would be to up the ante -- remove even MORE stuff (only you say you have nothing more to remove) and then he will up the ante too (calling you worse names, leaving home, etc.)

Or, you can change things drastically. I don't actually have a teen, so my advice is worth nothing, I'm sure. But I have a young tween who is a mini-version of all you describe. And for the past few years we have been working on the thinkkids/explosive child method -- collaborative problem solving -- and life is much better.

I found I really need to stop expecting my child to be like other kids (and like his easy going sisters) and realize that I need to manage him in a different way.

Basically, I needed to create a much more positive relationship between us as much as possible (following up on earlier posts to do more alone time together) and also listen a lot more to him and his feelings and his opinions. And empathize with him and how he was feeling. THEN talk about my needs and goals, and THEN ask him how he thinks we can solve the particular problem together. As you do thins, you also need to look and see if he has any lagging skills where he really is weak.

It is hard work so you start with the biggest issues first. For me that would be the name calling. It might be that your teen needs help learning how to calm down and walk away from an argument without namecalling. It may be that you need to learn ways to do that, too. (I know I did. I am hot-tempered just like my son.) It might be that simply punishing your child for name calling or being rude to his siblings doesn't help him learn to be a different way.

Anonymous wrote:If he doesn't shower or brush his teeth that may be a real sign of depression. Most boys I know this age are actually pretty focused on hygiene (because of girls), and kids who play sports tend to shower pretty regularly. It may be that taking away the things he likes to do have created a downward spiral and exacerbated depression? I would get him checked out pretty quickly so that it doesn't affect his school year - presumably he's a junior which is the most important year for college admissions so if, as you say, your aim is to get him out of the house as fast as possible you probably want to make sure he does reasonably well this year.

I would also suggest counseling or parenting classes for you as some professional advice on how to respond to him would probably be helpful. Maybe a little positive reinforcement now and again would be helpful. You haven't said a single postiive thing about him on this thread. He must do something that you are proud of? He actually sounds to me like a pretty good/normal teenage boy. Your language and attitude are so negative and combative so it's not surprising that things have gotten so bad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems obvious to me. He wants more attention. Negative attention is still attention. Have you been distracted or focussed more on his siblings? Have you taken one-on-one time with him just to have fun (not nag)?

I'd at least give it a try...

Thank you for this suggestion. With four children, two of them very young and one with ADHD of course my attention is spread thin. I'm going to make a date to take him out for a special mother & son date, maybe a movie of a book we've both read. He and I both read then discuss books or shows we've enjoyed. We also both enjoy talking about politics. I'm going to plan something special and see if it helps a little. In the past taking him out to dinner has been enjoyable but only a short term solution.

Please, posters, have fewer than 4 children so your attention isn't spread thin. I beg you.

Signed, one of 4 who stopped at 2