I live within walking distance of GW middle school, and several of my neighbor's children attend (my immediate neighbors are mostly white, upper-middle class kids from Del Ray/Rosemont). However, living right next to the school, I can tell you that there is definitely a tough element there, which constitutes a huge population. I walk past throngs of these students coming to school from the projects on the other side of the Braddock Road metro station, every day. After having the experience of being literally shoved off the sidewalk (three times) by two aggressive (minority) pre-teens, I can tell you, it's made me question whether to send my own kids there. My kids are at Mt Vernon Elementary now, which has been wonderful and also has a large minority population. But DH and I are seriously having the discussion about whether we want to send our kids to GW or move to FFX county. I think we are leaning toward FFX county. i think dynamics change between Elementary and Middle Schools as the kids become pubescent and are facing other issues more related to gender, sex, etc. I have seen some very troubling behavior in and around GW middle school over and over again. I cannot speak to TC williams.

First off, in case you missed the memo, welfare was changed during the Clinton administration and now does have limits on it. And the reason poor people have access to that housing is because it was all public housing before it was torn down to build those new homes. So again, many of these people already lived in that neighborhood. I find it appalling that you think they should move now because you now find it a desirable address.

And by the way, Alexandria voted for Obama 72% to 28% over McCain. I seriously doubt Obama did better in Bethesda.

So, 15:28, what are you doing about it? It's great fun to bitch on DCUM about Alexandria's problems, but if you really want to effect change, get involved. I support the schools, and have been very much involved in the PTA. I've also been involved in a number of other community service programs. You say you think Alexandria is on the wrong track. Have you run for office or served on boards? You obviously have strong opinions; I hope that you're not one of those "all talk and no action" types. One of the problems that I found at the PTA (and in working on a local political campaign) is the large number of apathetic citizens. I may disagree with your views, but your views really don't matter if you do nothing.

PP here. I'm no racist and have no problem with poor people. I was poor myself growing up. I attended integrated schools (60% black, 40% white). I'm sending my kids to intergrated schools in Alexandria. I don't care about the color of their classmates' skin. I do have a problem with folks who live on the dole year after year, no matter what their skin color might be.

The gov't should provide a safety net, not a hammock. When Alexandria builds beautiful new public housing units in the nicest neighborhood in town, builds brand new rec centers with every sports activity imaginable, provides free breakfast & lunch & foodstamps for dinner, provides free childcare after school, and a host of other free services, it saps any incentive of parents/kids to work their way out of their "poverty." And it makes our city a magnet for lazy people who are searching for the best life they can find at gov't expense.

I grew up very poor. I remember coming home from school more than once, finding no electricity in the house b/c my parents couldn't afford to pay the bill. I delivered newspapers and worked after school jobs all through junior high/high school. I never could afford the Air Jordan's my "poor" classmates from the projects wore. I made do with hand-me downs. My parents couldn't give me much more than the bare necessities. But they didn't take handouts. And they gave me things no gov't program could: a strong work ethic, a respect for the value of education, and a burning desire to do better for myself. Growing up in poverty can build real character. Growing up on the dole rarely does.

I don't care if you think I'm a racist, but I have as much right to live in Alexandria and lament the failings of its misguided social policies as you have to live here and exalt in the "good" you think the city is doing for the poor (and their kids, and grandkids, and great-grandkids). If you're uncomfortable having neighbors who disagree with your liberal politics, maybe YOU should move to DC or Bethesda where the sound of the echo chamber will be undisturbed.

We have no proof this person lives in Alexandria. And if they do, I don't know why because it is evident they don 't like it. I live here in part because it is liberal. You, PP, hate that. It is unlikely to change. Obviously, you don't have to like it. But you have other options.

Anonymous wrote:Because before the dole was invented, there was absolute no poverty and no crime.

If poor people bother you so much, why not move to a gated community in Haymarket, or your 50 acre spread in Middleburg (although Windy Hill has some poor people there.)

Here's a thought: Why don't you argue with your fellow Alexandria resident about ACPS, and stop trying to defuse it by making snide comments about people out in Prince William or Loudoun?

Anonymous wrote:
You should be glad that the other jurisdictions don't "share the burden," giving Alexandria the opportunity to import poor people from surrounding areas so you rich liberals can feel self-righteous about all the "good" you're doing by putting lazy folks comfortably on the dole and sapping any incentive they might have had to escape the never-ending cycle of government dependence.

As an Alexandrian who pays to support all these loafers, I cringed to see them all lined up at GW middle school when Alexandria reopened the public housing waitlist last month. It was strange to see how few of these "poor" people arrrived on foot/by public transit. The parking lot was full of cars (nice cars, too), lots with DC and Maryland plates.

But what do you expect when a city spends millions building brand new, beatiful public housing units in the heart of Old Town (one of the most desirable neighborhoods in the region), and then lets anyone sign up to move in--even if they aren't Alexandria residents. When you read about former DC residents who have moved to public housing complexes in Alexandria for a better life, I'm sure it warms your heart. More human guinea pigs to be socially engineered by our coterie of bureacrats at City Hall and ACPS. More reliable Democrat voters to keep our city council majority in place! More criminals to steal packages off our porches, break into our cars, urinate in our alleys, and commit occasional violent crimes, too! Win-win-win!

Because before the dole was invented, there was absolute no poverty and no crime.

If poor people bother you so much, why not move to a gated community in Haymarket, or your 50 acre spread in Middleburg (although Windy Hill has some poor people there.)

Anonymous wrote:
You should be glad that the other jurisdictions don't "share the burden," giving Alexandria the opportunity to import poor people from surrounding areas so you rich liberals can feel self-righteous about all the "good" you're doing by putting lazy folks comfortably on the dole and sapping any incentive they might have had to escape the never-ending cycle of government dependence.

As an Alexandrian who pays to support all these loafers, I cringed to see them all lined up at GW middle school when Alexandria reopened the public housing waitlist last month. It was strange to see how few of these "poor" people arrrived on foot/by public transit. The parking lot was full of cars (nice cars, too), lots with DC and Maryland plates.

But what do you expect when a city spends millions building brand new, beatiful public housing units in the heart of Old Town (one of the most desirable neighborhoods in the region), and then lets anyone sign up to move in--even if they aren't Alexandria residents. When you read about former DC residents who have moved to public housing complexes in Alexandria for a better life, I'm sure it warms your heart. More human guinea pigs to be socially engineered by our coterie of bureacrats at City Hall and ACPS. More reliable Democrat voters to keep our city council majority in place! More criminals to steal packages off our porches, break into our cars, urinate in our alleys, and commit occasional violent crimes, too! Win-win-win!

YOU are a racist.

Listen, soulless wonder, that neighborhood has historically been AA going back to when freed slaves settled there. So it is whites who have invaded the neighborhood, not the other way around. I'm sorry you don't have garage for your Beemer because you haven't been able to buy a teardown next door, but let us know your address Cracker Barrell so we can slit your tires.

Sincerely,
Middle-class liberal

You should be glad that the other jurisdictions don't "share the burden," giving Alexandria the opportunity to import poor people from surrounding areas so you rich liberals can feel self-righteous about all the "good" you're doing by putting lazy folks comfortably on the dole and sapping any incentive they might have had to escape the never-ending cycle of government dependence.

As an Alexandrian who pays to support all these loafers, I cringed to see them all lined up at GW middle school when Alexandria reopened the public housing waitlist last month. It was strange to see how few of these "poor" people arrrived on foot/by public transit. The parking lot was full of cars (nice cars, too), lots with DC and Maryland plates.

But what do you expect when a city spends millions building brand new, beatiful public housing units in the heart of Old Town (one of the most desirable neighborhoods in the region), and then lets anyone sign up to move in--even if they aren't Alexandria residents. When you read about former DC residents who have moved to public housing complexes in Alexandria for a better life, I'm sure it warms your heart. More human guinea pigs to be socially engineered by our coterie of bureacrats at City Hall and ACPS. More reliable Democrat voters to keep our city council majority in place! More criminals to steal packages off our porches, break into our cars, urinate in our alleys, and commit occasional violent crimes, too! Win-win-win!

Anonymous wrote:As an Alexandria resident I find that apartheid comment pretty outrageous. The fact is, Alexandria provides assisted housing to many times more of its residents than Fairfax County does. In fact, it even provides more units. Shame on Fairfax County, which I am sure uses the money it does not spend on housing and the tax loss from its occupants' income on its wonderful schools and parks. You should be thanking the City of Alexandria for taking so much of Fairfax county's burden. I hope my daughter at TC learns all about how communities share (or don't) the burden of the poor and uneducated in her government class this year!

ARHA and Alexandria operate over 3000 public housing units http://alexandriava.gov/uploadedfiles/planning/info/Braddock%20East/Further%20Information/ARHA_Presentation.pdf

Fairfax County maintains only 1060:
"The Fairfax County Redevelopment and Housing Authority (FCRHA) operates 1,060 units of Public Housing. Public Housing units are managed and maintained by the Fairfax County Department of Housing and Community Development (HCD). The units were built or acquired using federal public housing funds. Units include townhouses, garden apartments and condominium units, and are located throughout the County."

So it's only considered low-income housing if the county operates it?

The apartheid comment was weird.

As an Alexandria resident I find that apartheid comment pretty outrageous. The fact is, Alexandria provides assisted housing to many times more of its residents than Fairfax County does. In fact, it even provides more units. Shame on Fairfax County, which I am sure uses the money it does not spend on housing and the tax loss from its occupants' income on its wonderful schools and parks. You should be thanking the City of Alexandria for taking so much of Fairfax county's burden. I hope my daughter at TC learns all about how communities share (or don't) the burden of the poor and uneducated in her government class this year!

ARHA and Alexandria operate over 3000 public housing units http://alexandriava.gov/uploadedfiles/planning/info/Braddock%20East/Further%20Information/ARHA_Presentation.pdf

Fairfax County maintains only 1060:
"The Fairfax County Redevelopment and Housing Authority (FCRHA) operates 1,060 units of Public Housing. Public Housing units are managed and maintained by the Fairfax County Department of Housing and Community Development (HCD). The units were built or acquired using federal public housing funds. Units include townhouses, garden apartments and condominium units, and are located throughout the County."

Anonymous wrote:

You left out the West Potomac district, which has a large number of kids who come from backgrounds where education is highly valued. Given a choice, I'd pick West Potomac over TC Williams, Hayfield or Edison.

TC also has a large number of kids and families who highly value education. This year's class received offers from Stanford, Cornell, Penn, UVA (many, many kids), Middlebury, Duke, Haverford, Oberlin, William & Mary, Wesleyan, Johns Hopkins, Smith and Columbia, among others. And only one was an athletic recruit (Columbia). I'm sure our stats hold up against those of Edison, Hayfield, or West Potomac -- or St. Stephen's, for that matter.

Exept the question I would have is whether this is a sliver of a sample. It's almost like T.C. is an apartheid system, which is not an environment I'd want my kids in, even if they were among the achievers.

Why look at race? Just look at numbers- and the person who mentioned the rape at Cameron is making a lot of assumptions and obviously doesn't understand the crime of rape and how it occurs everywhere - not just in high poverty areas.

The purpose of presenting scores is to show FCPS isn't better just because its Fairfax - TC, Stuart, West Potomac, Mount Vernon, Hayfield and Edison did not meet AYP last year and the SAT scores are listed above - That being said it doesn't mean your child won't do well - these are all great kids but you definitely have academically needy students - The quality of the teachers and administrators is much more important. If the working environment is hostile and poorly managed, it is less likely to have success in educating not only these students. Assuming the problem is race and money is an obtuse argument - figure out what neighborhoods you are comfortable in and what schools you like - Being an active part of a community is so much more important than being a disconnected, image obsessed snob - That is what I like most about the Alexandria neighborhoods (whether city or Fairfax) it feels like a real community - so I understand the draw. Good luck!

Anonymous wrote:That does look scary, but consider...

TC's SAT average for white students -- 1720
FCPS SAT average for white students --1715

TC's school-wide averages will always suffer in comparison to most FCPS schools, because TC's student body is 20% white, 40% black, 31% hispanic and 6% Asian. More importantly, many of the non-white kids at FCPS schools come from middle class families. Some of Alexandria's non-white kids are middle class too, but many of them come from the vast apparatus of public housing complexes and other affodable housing projects that Alexandria maintains to ease the guilt of its rich, white, liberal population. So TC's student population is skewed heavily toward LEP and Free/Reduced Lunch population. Is it ideal to have so many poor students concentrated in one massive high school? No. Does it mean that your particular kid will be unable to achieve his potential at TC Williams? No.

One interesting comparison is to look at the AP Test results from TC compared to FCPS high schools. TC's kids score 3's, 4's, and 5's on AP Tests at a similar rate as the kids at the middle tier of FCPS schools (Lake Braddock, West Springfield, etc.). That tells me that the kids who are serious about getting a great education at TC Williams can, in fact, get one. And, by attending a school that has economic diversity, they'll likely gain some street smarts, too. Not such a bad thing to have...

Hey, what happened to the "if your kid's on the AP track, they won't interact with the poor kids" boosterism?

I remember in HS interacting plenty with the general population in gym class and other electives ... if anyone sends their kids to TC thinking your kid's going to be in a bubble, I think they'll be sadly, sadly, sadly mistaken.

There's new and struggling Americans a-plenty at TC. Whether you, as a middle-class or upper-middle-class white parent, need to have their struggles in close proximity to you, is entirely up to you. Because, like it or not, there's a large number of people who just don't care about that fancy book larnin' at TC, and no one's really yet explained the concrete benefits of sending your kid to higher-poverty schools as opposed to lower-poverty schools (note that I am not advocating breaking the bank or living in a woodshed to live in the McLean zone as opposed to the Marshall zone, or moving out to Stafford cause the ferriners are taking over Fairfax.)

With that said -- if you live in a $1.2M 3000-sf TH in Old Town with a Walkscore in the 90s, you, and your kid, will probably be fine at TC. Why? You're living in the nicer part of town and have some top of the line housing. You're likely isolated from most of the grime that makes living in Alexandria unpleasant.

It's folks who buy a $250-350k condo or TH to save money or "I want to live close in and it's all we can afford" that will likely rue their decision.