I understand what you're saying OP. We have "friends" who abuse alcohol...they clearly have issues. Both their sons are always incredibly well-behaved and excel in school and I've always felt like they were so well-behaved because they have to be...their parents are always out of it. I could write more but basically there are definitely families out there like you describe and I feel for those kids.

But, I don't think all mature and independent kids necessarily have absentee parents. 21:58 and I sound like we have similar children. My son is 10 and is very mature and responsible. I'd like to think it's because my Dh and I have found the sweet spot between being too hands-off and helicoptering but we can't take full credit. His innate personality definitely plays a role and I also think some of his responsibility comes from the fact that he's an anxious kid by nature (anxiety runs in our family).

My kid brushes her teeth on her own. I consider that pretty independant for a 3 y/o. I don't think it's b/c I'm uninvolved as a parent. I think you're projecting. Worry about your own kids.

Anonymous wrote:I think that the OP and the subsequent folks who agree with her also missing a big part of the analysis and that is the personalities of the kids themselves. I have 3 kids in their teens (2 in college) and while they all have similar experiences and upbringings, they vary in terms of maturity and independence. DC1 is the most socially mature, but she is the one likely to get homesick and needs to check in daily. DC2 is not socially mature, but she loves to travel, has a thirst for knowledge and is the most street smart. She can blend in anywhere. DC3 is the most independent on the day to day stuff and is the most comfortable in his own skin. 3 kids + same parents + same upbringing + different personalities = different levels of maturity and independence.

Sure, the family situations of kids may have an impact on this, but if a parent says that about a child, it does not automatically mean neglect or lack of involvement. The parent may have a comparative point of view.

Uh oh. We're veering dangerously close to rationality and common sense here. Quick, someone pick on the mom who has her toddler do "chores."

I think that the OP and the subsequent folks who agree with her also missing a big part of the analysis and that is the personalities of the kids themselves. I have 3 kids in their teens (2 in college) and while they all have similar experiences and upbringings, they vary in terms of maturity and independence. DC1 is the most socially mature, but she is the one likely to get homesick and needs to check in daily. DC2 is not socially mature, but she loves to travel, has a thirst for knowledge and is the most street smart. She can blend in anywhere. DC3 is the most independent on the day to day stuff and is the most comfortable in his own skin. 3 kids + same parents + same upbringing + different personalities = different levels of maturity and independence.

Sure, the family situations of kids may have an impact on this, but if a parent says that about a child, it does not automatically mean neglect or lack of involvement. The parent may have a comparative point of view.

I was a really mature, independent kid with a lot of self-confidence. Oldest (of 3) daughter. My (SAHM) mom totally took advantage of it, not in a bad way. She knew I could take care of my siblings without her worrying. I babysat in the neighborhood from 11 years old onward. I never got in trouble in school, made good grades, tested well and tended to be a leader in activities. I was the first of my friends to have a license and a car. My parents trusted me, for good reason. A couple of the other parents worried about me around their kids because they thought I had too little supervision. But I wasn't the one getting their kids drunk and keeping them out late. (found out years later they were using me as an excuse, lol.) I went off to college across the country at 18 on a scholarship and have always supported myself. I'm 39 now and the executor of my dad's will.

I'd be thrilled if my daughter became mature and independent for her age. She's only 3, but I have high hopes for her as she grows up. We spend a lot of time together, but she can play well by herself at home and the park.

Letting your kids be mature and independent and being an absentee parent are not the same thing.

I see what you're saying, OP, but some people take this too far. I commented once about this in a thread about what age it is appropriate to give kids chores, but my stepson is nearly 14 and lives with his mother and her parents. He doesn't know how to do VERY simple things like use a fork and knife to cut a steak, how to properly load a dishwasher, or operate a microwave without assistance and guidance. His mother was not "parentified" - he is just the only child of his mother and living in a house with 3 adults who coddle him. I understand not wanting your kids to live like mini adults at a young age, but at what age do you start encouraging them to be more self sufficient and independent? I want my daughter to have a carefree childhood too, but I also don't want her to be 14 years old and befuddled by a microwave.

It is because you live in the city and there isn't anything real for your spoilt darlings to do. Go outside your bubble and you will find mature and independent kids, not because of absent or ineffective parenting, but because the kids have actual things to do that contribute to family survival.

Only since the 50's has this idea of helpless children been popular. Look at the little house books and figure out how old those kids were: Laura was holding a teaching job at 15!

I think the thing most worrying about immediate PP is that he's allegedly a 14 year old boy posting on DCUM late at night. If I were a 14 year old boy there would be about eight thousand sites I'd favor before this one. Seriously stretching credibility!! You're 14 and chatting on DCUM? Your not independent, you're either lying or seriously need to get a life (and some sleep). GO TO BED

I think OP is quite right. My little kids could make their lunches, do more things by themselves etc. But I like the fact that they do not have to. My sister's kids are "so mature and independent" that they bring her tea and toast in bed (she really likes to lie in), organize everything for themselves and get rewarded for every certificate and 'achievement' that makes her feel like a good parent. My kids do the usual chores and I take their offers of help when they want to be part of something I'm doing (folding washing, watering the plants) but there's no pressure. I delight in their success but I don't define me or them by it (or lack of it). DH and I don't talk money in front of the kids and we're careful about 'sensitive topics' like family issues. Why? Because they are all under 6 and there is time enough for explaining the tricky things. I believe that true confidence and security comes from knowing that your parents are a rock on whom you can rely and trust. Knowing that they are putting your interests first and care enough to make things special is part of that. My sister's kid are much more worldly, very driven (in every sense) and have the awards to prove their prowess. But I reckon that an hour spent pressing flowers for Christmas cards, or curled up telling dumb jokes, or baking the week's biscuits together or just wandering through the neighbourhood making up stories about the people who live in each house is worth it's weight in accolades and independence.

I think OP's post was a good one.

I'm sorry if some parents find this to be rude or offensive.

I am 14 years old and yes, I'm a teenage boy. You might be thinking to yourself "well what does this kid know, he is only 14." And I don't know everything but I do know that there are always two sides to a story. My mother is a single parent who has been for about 13 years and she never has had any child support to help and my father doesn't even have parental rights. Even the Sony Vaio laptop that I am typing this from was paid for with her own money. She has always had to support me and now she even is my teacher because I started homeschooling this year for 9th grade. So I know that it isn't easy being a parent seeing her have to go through hard times and trying to take care of a kid when your the only source of income. So I have had to learn to be a mature, independent kid from a early age and yes, I sometimes wish I was different. But things happen for a reason, and I have learned to just go with the flow. And so even though I am a loner and I hardly joke around with people, and few kids in middle school liked me does not mean that my mother went wrong somewhere with me. And that doesn't mean that she was not involved with my life because she was, but she still had to pay bills. All I ask is that if you read this whole post, that you give some thought before you make judgments about other parents thinking that they are not involved with there kids just because of how there kids act. And don't steer your kids away from kids like me because for all you know, we might just be as likely to steer away from your kids because they joke around to much. So just remember that there is always that hidden side to everything, and every kid and teenager is different.

P.S. My mother did supervise whenever I had friends over and she has take great care of me over the years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this thread is totally absurd. sorry OP, just because you had a crappy childhood doesn't mean that every "mature" child had your upbringing. And the crazy opining about the word "mature" is ridiculous! I call my kid "crazy,""a nutjob," and i tell her she's a "big girl" (she's 13 MO). Guess what - none of that is literal. I seriously doubt people who say their kids are mature literally mean they've had more life experiences and therefore have a deeper background from which to make important life choices. Um no, they mean their kid picks their nose less often and is smart enough to know they shouldn't cross the street without an adult. Or even more likely they think their kid is super special is a way that nobody else's kid could possible live up to . . . pretty much the same thing every other parent in the world thinks about their kid.

Its fabulous that you have so much insight into the lives of every single family who thinks their kid is mature and independent. But maybe . . . just maybe . . . you're jumping to conclusions, overreacting, and forcing your own baggage onto other people.

It must be nice for you to know everything about parenting now that you have a one year-old.

Yea i'm this PP. I don't know everything about parenting, but I do know i consider my child both mature and independent, my parents always bragged about my maturity and independence, and i know an awful lot of parents who tell me the exact same thing about their children. that's a pretty broad brush your painting with. i also know people who call their kid shy and clingy. I guess those parents are overprotecting and caccooning, right?

WTF?? You consider your 13 months child "mature and independent"?

Yea, she makes her own dinner and does most of the holiday shopping. It's incredible how much she's learned since i started crying it out and locking her alone in the house all day while i work on my cocaine habit.

My 13 mo. old makes her own dinner and orders from PeaPod, and I would never touch a speck of cocaine. Not all crazy nut jobs are the result drug addict parents -- some are just born that way. that's a broad brush you're using, PP. Must be nice to be so smug.

It's fabulous to be this smug! I get to see random people I don't even know get really fired up and angry over people disagreeing with them. now if you'll excuse me i have to go help my toddler bring in the groceries. she may be mature and independent, but not super strong. you're so lucky that your kid uses peapod.

You let your toddler drive to the grocery store? Now I've heard everything. This is exactly what's wrong with parents today -- giving in to every last whim. My toddler would kill to drive a car. I keep telling him he has to wait until his legs can reach the pedals -- at least.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this thread is totally absurd. sorry OP, just because you had a crappy childhood doesn't mean that every "mature" child had your upbringing. And the crazy opining about the word "mature" is ridiculous! I call my kid "crazy,""a nutjob," and i tell her she's a "big girl" (she's 13 MO). Guess what - none of that is literal. I seriously doubt people who say their kids are mature literally mean they've had more life experiences and therefore have a deeper background from which to make important life choices. Um no, they mean their kid picks their nose less often and is smart enough to know they shouldn't cross the street without an adult. Or even more likely they think their kid is super special is a way that nobody else's kid could possible live up to . . . pretty much the same thing every other parent in the world thinks about their kid.

Its fabulous that you have so much insight into the lives of every single family who thinks their kid is mature and independent. But maybe . . . just maybe . . . you're jumping to conclusions, overreacting, and forcing your own baggage onto other people.

It must be nice for you to know everything about parenting now that you have a one year-old.

Yea i'm this PP. I don't know everything about parenting, but I do know i consider my child both mature and independent, my parents always bragged about my maturity and independence, and i know an awful lot of parents who tell me the exact same thing about their children. that's a pretty broad brush your painting with. i also know people who call their kid shy and clingy. I guess those parents are overprotecting and caccooning, right?

WTF?? You consider your 13 months child "mature and independent"?

Yea, she makes her own dinner and does most of the holiday shopping. It's incredible how much she's learned since i started crying it out and locking her alone in the house all day while i work on my cocaine habit.

My 13 mo. old makes her own dinner and orders from PeaPod, and I would never touch a speck of cocaine. Not all crazy nut jobs are the result drug addict parents -- some are just born that way. that's a broad brush you're using, PP. Must be nice to be so smug.

It's fabulous to be this smug! I get to see random people I don't even know get really fired up and angry over people disagreeing with them. now if you'll excuse me i have to go help my toddler bring in the groceries. she may be mature and independent, but not super strong. you're so lucky that your kid uses peapod.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this thread is totally absurd. sorry OP, just because you had a crappy childhood doesn't mean that every "mature" child had your upbringing. And the crazy opining about the word "mature" is ridiculous! I call my kid "crazy,""a nutjob," and i tell her she's a "big girl" (she's 13 MO). Guess what - none of that is literal. I seriously doubt people who say their kids are mature literally mean they've had more life experiences and therefore have a deeper background from which to make important life choices. Um no, they mean their kid picks their nose less often and is smart enough to know they shouldn't cross the street without an adult. Or even more likely they think their kid is super special is a way that nobody else's kid could possible live up to . . . pretty much the same thing every other parent in the world thinks about their kid.

Its fabulous that you have so much insight into the lives of every single family who thinks their kid is mature and independent. But maybe . . . just maybe . . . you're jumping to conclusions, overreacting, and forcing your own baggage onto other people.

It must be nice for you to know everything about parenting now that you have a one year-old.

Yea i'm this PP. I don't know everything about parenting, but I do know i consider my child both mature and independent, my parents always bragged about my maturity and independence, and i know an awful lot of parents who tell me the exact same thing about their children. that's a pretty broad brush your painting with. i also know people who call their kid shy and clingy. I guess those parents are overprotecting and caccooning, right?

WTF?? You consider your 13 months child "mature and independent"?

Yea, she makes her own dinner and does most of the holiday shopping. It's incredible how much she's learned since i started crying it out and locking her alone in the house all day while i work on my cocaine habit.

My 13 mo. old makes her own dinner and orders from PeaPod, and I would never touch a speck of cocaine. Not all crazy nut jobs are the result drug addict parents -- some are just born that way. that's a broad brush you're using, PP. Must be nice to be so smug.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this thread is totally absurd. sorry OP, just because you had a crappy childhood doesn't mean that every "mature" child had your upbringing. And the crazy opining about the word "mature" is ridiculous! I call my kid "crazy,""a nutjob," and i tell her she's a "big girl" (she's 13 MO). Guess what - none of that is literal. I seriously doubt people who say their kids are mature literally mean they've had more life experiences and therefore have a deeper background from which to make important life choices. Um no, they mean their kid picks their nose less often and is smart enough to know they shouldn't cross the street without an adult. Or even more likely they think their kid is super special is a way that nobody else's kid could possible live up to . . . pretty much the same thing every other parent in the world thinks about their kid.

Its fabulous that you have so much insight into the lives of every single family who thinks their kid is mature and independent. But maybe . . . just maybe . . . you're jumping to conclusions, overreacting, and forcing your own baggage onto other people.

It must be nice for you to know everything about parenting now that you have a one year-old.

Yea i'm this PP. I don't know everything about parenting, but I do know i consider my child both mature and independent, my parents always bragged about my maturity and independence, and i know an awful lot of parents who tell me the exact same thing about their children. that's a pretty broad brush your painting with. i also know people who call their kid shy and clingy. I guess those parents are overprotecting and caccooning, right?

WTF?? You consider your 13 months child "mature and independent"?

Yea, she makes her own dinner and does most of the holiday shopping. It's incredible how much she's learned since i started crying it out and locking her alone in the house all day while i work on my cocaine habit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this thread is totally absurd. sorry OP, just because you had a crappy childhood doesn't mean that every "mature" child had your upbringing. And the crazy opining about the word "mature" is ridiculous! I call my kid "crazy,""a nutjob," and i tell her she's a "big girl" (she's 13 MO). Guess what - none of that is literal. I seriously doubt people who say their kids are mature literally mean they've had more life experiences and therefore have a deeper background from which to make important life choices. Um no, they mean their kid picks their nose less often and is smart enough to know they shouldn't cross the street without an adult. Or even more likely they think their kid is super special is a way that nobody else's kid could possible live up to . . . pretty much the same thing every other parent in the world thinks about their kid.

Its fabulous that you have so much insight into the lives of every single family who thinks their kid is mature and independent. But maybe . . . just maybe . . . you're jumping to conclusions, overreacting, and forcing your own baggage onto other people.

It must be nice for you to know everything about parenting now that you have a one year-old.

Yea i'm this PP. I don't know everything about parenting, but I do know i consider my child both mature and independent, my parents always bragged about my maturity and independence, and i know an awful lot of parents who tell me the exact same thing about their children. that's a pretty broad brush your painting with. i also know people who call their kid shy and clingy. I guess those parents are overprotecting and caccooning, right?

WTF?? You consider your 13 months child "mature and independent"?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this thread is totally absurd. sorry OP, just because you had a crappy childhood doesn't mean that every "mature" child had your upbringing. And the crazy opining about the word "mature" is ridiculous! I call my kid "crazy,""a nutjob," and i tell her she's a "big girl" (she's 13 MO). Guess what - none of that is literal. I seriously doubt people who say their kids are mature literally mean they've had more life experiences and therefore have a deeper background from which to make important life choices. Um no, they mean their kid picks their nose less often and is smart enough to know they shouldn't cross the street without an adult. Or even more likely they think their kid is super special is a way that nobody else's kid could possible live up to . . . pretty much the same thing every other parent in the world thinks about their kid.

Its fabulous that you have so much insight into the lives of every single family who thinks their kid is mature and independent. But maybe . . . just maybe . . . you're jumping to conclusions, overreacting, and forcing your own baggage onto other people.

It must be nice for you to know everything about parenting now that you have a one year-old.

Yea i'm this PP. I don't know everything about parenting, but I do know i consider my child both mature and independent, my parents always bragged about my maturity and independence, and i know an awful lot of parents who tell me the exact same thing about their children. that's a pretty broad brush your painting with. i also know people who call their kid shy and clingy. I guess those parents are overprotecting and caccooning, right?

Your 13 month-old is mature and independent?

Seriously. 20:13, you sound like a nut job (and I mean that literally).