Anonymous wrote:those of you who are naive or stupid enough to say quaint things like "don't speed = no ticket" are utterly clueless about the vagaries of radar, calibration, etc.

Ever see the test in which radar clocked a stationary tree going faster than the speed limit?

I didn't think so ....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the asshole, condescending PP above:

Unnecessary speed limits ignore DoT guidelines

I guess the person who posted this screed believes that policy makers and traffic engineer who wrote this text suggest that policy that may work in isolated rural areas should also apply to dense urban areas? That traffic engineers and policy makers are infallible?

Anonymous wrote:I got my first speed camera ticket which is my first traffic citation of any type in 15 years. The paper says 11 over, but I don't agree and I will contest. On another note, I am done with DC. I moved here for employment 5 years ago but I am now looking as far away as possible. Between the inflated rent, parking, poor schools, high crime, and crooked local leaders, and now this - I am just done. This place strives to nickel and dime people as much as possible.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I personally think the city and these speed cameras are getting a little out of hand. There's a total of 5 speed cameras on 295n starting from when you enter dc from the Woodrow Wilson Bridge to before you enter the bw parkway smh. The speed limit goes from 45 to 50 back to 45 and that's just terrible. The first 2 cameras entering dc from va aren't even 50yds apart and I find that such a set up. I'm not condoning speeding but I think its ridiculous to have 5 cameras on such a short interstate. The one by the BENNING ROAD exactly on 295 is hidden and u can't see it and the flash doesn't work. It's on the left when they're normally on the right and its backed up to the wall between the guardrails smh. I've travelled 295 everyday and never received a speeding ticket not once now they put a hidden camera and now here comes a 125.00 ticket for supposedly doing 11 miles over the speed limit and might I add my bf was in the fast lane and I was in the truck with him and he doesn't speed because he knows I'll slap his face if he do. The District of Columbia is full of shit. I want to fight it because the law says all cameras should be seen not hidden.

This is fascinating. Could you please cite the relevant DC code that "says all cameras should be seen not hidden? That would be super-duper helpful!

Anonymous wrote:I personally think the city and these speed cameras are getting a little out of hand. There's a total of 5 speed cameras on 295n starting from when you enter dc from the Woodrow Wilson Bridge to before you enter the bw parkway smh. The speed limit goes from 45 to 50 back to 45 and that's just terrible. The first 2 cameras entering dc from va aren't even 50yds apart and I find that such a set up. I'm not condoning speeding but I think its ridiculous to have 5 cameras on such a short interstate. The one by the BENNING ROAD exactly on 295 is hidden and u can't see it and the flash doesn't work. It's on the left when they're normally on the right and its backed up to the wall between the guardrails smh. I've travelled 295 everyday and never received a speeding ticket not once now they put a hidden camera and now here comes a 125.00 ticket for supposedly doing 11 miles over the speed limit and might I add my bf was in the fast lane and I was in the truck with him and he doesn't speed because he knows I'll slap his face if he do. The District of Columbia is full of shit. I want to fight it because the law says all cameras should be seen not hidden.

Anonymous wrote:To the asshole, condescending PP above:

Unnecessary speed limits ignore DoT guidelines

The Department of Transport has laid down very clear guidelines on the imposition of speed limits. One part of those guidelines reflects the conclusion that "while the speed limit may apply some downward pressure on the speed of the fastest drivers, speed limits on their own do not reduce speeds significantly if they are set at a level substantially below that at which drivers would choose to drive in the absence of a limit." In other words, if the limit is too low, it will be ignored.

In consequence, the DoT recommends that any speed limit should be reflect the current average speed on the stretch. Specifically, it advises that a study be carried out to determine the "85th percentile speed of traffic", ie. the speed at or below which 85% of traffic travels. The proposed speed limit should not be more than 7mph or 20% (whichever is the greater) below that speed.

Not only do many (most?) local authorities ignore this clear advice, but many of them don't even carry out the necessary study to determine the 85th percentile speed.

Unfortunately, the DoT advice is just that: advice. Local authorities have no legal obligation to adhere to it. If you happen to see a notice advising of an intended reduction in the speed limit, you can object to it on the basis that this advice has been ignored and you will stand some prospect of success, but once the limit has been imposed there is no recourse.

Unnecessary speed limits don't work

The DoT advice is not given without reason: it has been clearly shown that inappropriately low speed limits don't work because drivers view them with contempt.

It is sometimes claimed that drivers who do 40mph in a 30mph zone would simply do 50mph if the limit were raised to 40mph, but a Department of Transport study showed that this is a myth. The study examined the effects of increasing a 30mph limit to a 40mph limit on six roads, measuring both average speeds and accident rates before and after the increase. The results were enlightening.

In most cases, average speeds remained static or decreased. Indeed, on the one road where the average speed increased (by 5mph, on the A58 in West Yorkshire), the accident rate still fell. The study suggests that drivers recognised the old limit as inappropriate and thus ignored it, often by substantial margins; the new limit was considered reasonable, with much greater adherence.

Similar studies in the States have shown the same effect: increasing the limit to a more appropriate speed increases respect for the limit, reduces average speeds and reduces accident rates.

Unnecessary speed limits are dangerous

The moral, then, is not simply that inappropriately low speed limits don't work, they are actually counter-productive. Further, since it is not only average speeds but accident rates which increase when these limits are applied, they are actively dangerous.

Indeed, at least one coroner has gone so far as to cite an inappropriately low speed limit as a contributory factor in a road accident death. In giving his verdict on the death of Frank Gray, the cornoner, Bill Walrond of Bury St Edmonds, West Suffolk, observed that this was the third fatal accident to occur in the short space of time since a reduction in the speed limit and commented:

"Unnecessary speed limits are detrimental to safety for various reasons. They reduce the opportunity to overtake, thereby making drivers try harder at other times; they cause traffic to bunch; they cause frayed tempers; they cause delay which makes drivers try harder at other times to make up time that they have lost. Another unfortunate effect that they have is that each unnecessary speed limit leads drivers to think that speed limits are imposed arbitrarily and therefore makes drivers less likely to observe speed limits when they ought to. Furthermore, speed limits can lead to road rage. [...] A driver with a frayed temper is not going to drive anything like as well as a driver who is calm and relaxed. Similarly and obviously a driver suffering from road rage is a hazard. Drivers should of course concentrate on staying calm and relaxed and they are at fault if they do not do so but none of that alters the connection that there can be between an accident and an unnecessary speed limit"
The unnecessary restrictions referred to at length by the coroner in the full verdict are far from an isolated case. Local and county councils across the country are gradually imposing more and more inappropriately low speed limits. National limits become 50s and 40s, 40s become 30s. The perfectly proper 30mph zones through villages gradually creep further and further out of the village either side until they meet in the middle.

Anonymous wrote:To the asshole, condescending PP above:

Unnecessary speed limits ignore DoT guidelines

Anonymous wrote:We got one on the SE freeway - going 56 in a 45 MPH zone. Ticket was $125! We've gotten a 1-2 before but they were always $40. Everything I read led me to believe that they charged $40 bc thats a price point that most people will just pay and move on, but $125 is a significant amount of money. Since you get the tickets weeks after you were driving, how can I possibly know exactly what speed I was going at the time? The cameras can be wrong. I read online that you can challenge the calibration of the camera and the placement of the warning signs.

Has anyone done this with success? Or even tried and lost? Gotten a reduced fine?

Thanks!