Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we agree that cars make everything more dangerous for people then?

Yes of course but that doesn't make taking that risk with your kids somehow morally correct.

Cars are supposed to stop at crosswalks, stop signs, and red lights. They are also supposed to yield to pedestrians for right turns. Yet drivers constantly violate these rules. If you saw a parent letting their 5 year old enter cross walks or cross streets unattended, without looking both ways to even see if cars are coming, would you think "sure, that's fine, at least they are in a cross walk and technically cars are supposed to follow the rules and not hit them."

Or would you think, "wow that is some negligent parenting, doesn't that parent know you can't trust drivers? a lot of drivers won't even look for a person that size crossing the street. what if a driver is on their phone and just rolls through? Stupid." Because it is stupid.

Yes cars make everything more dangerous. But your job as a parent is to know that cars are dangerous and make decisions accordingly to protect your children from this known danger. Not use them to make a political statement about America's preference of car infrastructure over people. Save that for your city council meetings.

+1000

Anonymous wrote:So we agree that cars make everything more dangerous for people then?

Yes of course but that doesn't make taking that risk with your kids somehow morally correct.

Cars are supposed to stop at crosswalks, stop signs, and red lights. They are also supposed to yield to pedestrians for right turns. Yet drivers constantly violate these rules. If you saw a parent letting their 5 year old enter cross walks or cross streets unattended, without looking both ways to even see if cars are coming, would you think "sure, that's fine, at least they are in a cross walk and technically cars are supposed to follow the rules and not hit them."

Or would you think, "wow that is some negligent parenting, doesn't that parent know you can't trust drivers? a lot of drivers won't even look for a person that size crossing the street. what if a driver is on their phone and just rolls through? Stupid." Because it is stupid.

Yes cars make everything more dangerous. But your job as a parent is to know that cars are dangerous and make decisions accordingly to protect your children from this known danger. Not use them to make a political statement about America's preference of car infrastructure over people. Save that for your city council meetings.

So we agree that cars make everything more dangerous for people then?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My issue is bike lanes that are visually obstructed (eg it is behind a bus stop so not visible to cars) and so when a car is turning right they can't see the bike coming. If it is an e-bike it will get there too fast for the driver to see it and stop in time.

If a car can't see far enough to make sure that a turn is clear then the car shouldn't make the turn. Where did you learn to drive?

That might be true. But if you're riding your e-bike with your toddler in the seat, and you're hit by a car doing what they shouldn't be doing, you can still end up with a dead toddler.

I watch for turning cars when riding my bike. Toddlers die in cars every day. More than bikes by a huge margin so you are being irrational.

You need to compare rates since bike riders are rare.

https://www.cdc.gov/pedestrian-bike-safety/about/bicycle-safety.html

Bicycle trips make up 1% of all trips in the United States.2 However, bicyclists account for 2-3% of people who die in a crash involving a motor vehicle on US roads.

+1. Fatality rates by miles traveled is far higher on bicycles. I am very pro-bicycle — even though I only travel by foot, car, or scooter — but I often am shocked by how some parents cycle with their kids. I don’t even have a problem sharing the sidewalk with cyclists who are courteous, slow, and give way to pedestrians if there is no safe bike lane. More people should cycle, we should all be given safe ways to cycle, and everyone should be lobbying for incredibly safe routes to schools/daycares. But parents also need to exercise common sense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just wondering lately, as I have witnessed so many parents with their toddlers on their electric bikes driving in rush hour how it is any different than having them on a motorcycle? At least on a motorcycle, people wear more than a bike helmet?

It drives me nuts that parents will -
not drink coffee while pregnant
or eat cold cuts
or sushi
or drink
and make sure their breastmilk is filter from forever plastics
will get the uber expensive crib that monitors breathing
But have no problem with their toddler being on an ebike

There's a simple explanation. It's performative, not safety, behaviors.

Yes. What all the thinks PP lists have in common with riding around with your kids on an cargo e-bike is that they are all things UMC people can do to project that they are educated, left leaning, urban, and cosmopolitan.

I say this as an educated, left-leaning, city person. There are also other reasons to do all of those things, but there is an inherent hypocrisy that a lot of my peers ignore because living a certain lifestyle/projecting a certain images matters more to them than adhering to any actual values system or even logic.

I don't know. I was annoyed by the look of these until I tried one and then realized how easy they make life. I'm truly not trying to signal anything. I do use it to take my son to school, on very slow city streets, averaging 12 mph. It's much faster than driving -- when driving i regularly get caught in a line at a red light and sometimes have to wait for a few light cycles, but ebikes can always go to the front of the block so you never get stuck. And you can park anywhere. and it feels much safer than my child biking himself, though we do that, too.

the commute is 1.5 miles

ebike commute: 7 minutes
car commute: 15 minutes
him biking himself: 20 minutes.

PP here. I wasn't talking about someone using one of these for short, reasonably slow commutes on residential streets with bike lanes. I'm talking about people cruising down Georgia Avenue in rush hour traffic with preschoolers on the back of their bike and then condescendingly tsk-tsking parents at their school who allow their kids to watch Paw Patrol or eat processed foods. They are doing something objectively dangerous with their kids daily, and proudly, while judging other parents for doing much less dangerous things. But since bike commutes, screen free parenting, and organic food all convey a very specific lifestyle, it's viewed as consistent and they feel comfortable looking down on other parents and believing they've somehow figured it out.

I've encountered parents who are judgmental about other parents food and screen habits and then ALSO judgmental of people who drive their kids to school or don't want to drop several thousand dollars on an e-bike that they will only be able to safely use for short local trips (so parents who don't feel comfortable going 25 mph down Georgia Avenue to their kids' school/daycare several miles away). Because it's not about safety or the best interest of the kids. It's about focusing your spending and your interests on parenting choices that scream "urbanism" or "European" because you are deeply insecure and need the validation that comes from feeling Dutch for 20 minutes a day.

I say all this as someone who cares about the quality of my kids' food, restricts screens, and prefers biking/walking to driving for both health and environmental reasons. I still find a lot of the "e-bike advocates" in DC to be hypocritical aholes who view their e-bikes as status signifiers and gleefully ignore perfectly rational objections to them (safety, limited use, the necessity for most families to maintain a car anyway because e-bikes are not appropriate for all commutes or needed transportation purposes).

Once I was at a parent event at my kids' school and a group of parents were talking about how we could incentivize more families buying cargo e-bikes to reduce the number of cars dropping off kids. I said, "what if instead we advocated for better public transit options serving the school?" and people told me that was "unworkable" because WMATA would never listen. They honestly believed that trying to convince a diverse population of parents to all spend 4-8k on cargo bikes that many would have to commute through areas with dangerous traffic was more "workable" than asking WMATA for better bus service near the school. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My issue is bike lanes that are visually obstructed (eg it is behind a bus stop so not visible to cars) and so when a car is turning right they can't see the bike coming. If it is an e-bike it will get there too fast for the driver to see it and stop in time.

If a car can't see far enough to make sure that a turn is clear then the car shouldn't make the turn. Where did you learn to drive?

That might be true. But if you're riding your e-bike with your toddler in the seat, and you're hit by a car doing what they shouldn't be doing, you can still end up with a dead toddler.

I watch for turning cars when riding my bike. Toddlers die in cars every day. More than bikes by a huge margin so you are being irrational.

You need to compare rates since bike riders are rare.

https://www.cdc.gov/pedestrian-bike-safety/about/bicycle-safety.html

Bicycle trips make up 1% of all trips in the United States.2 However, bicyclists account for 2-3% of people who die in a crash involving a motor vehicle on US roads.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My issue is bike lanes that are visually obstructed (eg it is behind a bus stop so not visible to cars) and so when a car is turning right they can't see the bike coming. If it is an e-bike it will get there too fast for the driver to see it and stop in time.

If a car can't see far enough to make sure that a turn is clear then the car shouldn't make the turn. Where did you learn to drive?

The issue is the car can see both sides of the street onto which they are turning, but they can't see that there is a bike traveling at 20 mph that is 20 yards away from the street onto which they are turning. It is an easy mistake to make and also not a common street configuration in this area. Seems like a recipe for injuries. You can blame the drivers all you want but that doesn't make it safe for your kid.