Did the school discuss redshirting at all with you? This feels like the sort of feedback they give to a younger child they think isn’t ready, so surprised if they weren’t direct. “We think your child would benefit from another year, but if you insist on moving on go somewhere less rigorous and nurturing”

Anonymous wrote:DD goes to a private UES preschool. We're applying to K in the fall and had a meeting with her head teacher and PSD to discuss options. Our kid is occasionally shy but IMO bright - outside of school she's verbal, has started to read small words and loves to add and subtract. She asks thoughtful questions and is able to make friends easily with other kids in our neighborhood. She has one "bestie" at school and gets along well with the other children, based on playdates we've had outside of school. She has a good attention span, we read fairly advanced books to her and she is able to keep up.

The teacher feedback felt like they were talking about a different child. They said that she doesn't engage with the more academic material and doesn't really ask any questions and isn't a "leader." They essentially shot down us applying to any TT schools (not in so many words but stating that they wouldn't be a good "fit") as well as some 2Ts. I asked them which schools they do feel would be a good fit and they mentioned a few less rigorous progressive schools. We're not really interested in progressive schools and given the feedback feel like she could do with something more structured rather than less.

I get that they are managing expectations but I feel like they're just trying to pigeonhole us into less competitive schools so we're not competing for spots against siblings and legacies. We're really confused and not sure how to proceed. I understand the ISAAGNY report matters a lot as well as the preschool visit, and we really do need them to be on board, it's also too late for us to switch. My kid's birthday is early June so theoretically we could wait another year, but my instinct tells me it would be the wrong move. Kind of want to just do public school and be done with it

early June- wait another year, looking back, it really hurt our dd to not insist on this.

Where DC ended up: NYC parent here. We were lucky enough to land in downtown schools instead of UES. My perception is it was a kinder, gentler experience. DC still got into TT colleges.

I realized the PS was right but awful, late, lacking, and confusing in delivering the message. Also what the ongoing school will see on PS visits will be what they see in school more than what a parent sees at home.

Also the PSD may barely enter the classroom but won’t, or at least didn’t, overrule the far more inexperienced classroom teacher. There is a lot to be said for veteran teachers for ages 2-6.

But I understand not changing for the 4s year.

This will work out but your PSD will stick. Pretend to consider her suggestions. Be very agreeable. This goes into the school report. ( we saw ours afterward.) network for schools others like. Solicit the PSD’s suggestions for any supports, enrichment she suggests.

Having gone through the private school process, here is my take. Many private pre-K teachers/providers are really focusing on what is best for your child and a good fit. They know the current state of the schools and what kids they are accepting at the moment and usually they want the best for your child so they can be happy.

On the metrics end, June birthdays are difficult. From what I see, not many summer birthdays are accepted because of maturity reasons. The unhooked summer girls accepted are really advanced social-emotionally. The field was really competitive this year and I imagine they are projecting the same competitiveness next year. Academics are just one piece of the puzzle. Applicants with over the top intelligence are often declined because they just aren't there socially or perceived to cause problems/chaos in class. Schools want to be able to teach a class without too much disruption. They build out a class with some leaders, some quiet introverts, and kids who can go along with the flow. The pre-K teachers see your children in the school setting and if children are acting a certain way in pre-K, they are probably going to act the same way in K. A child's personality is who they are and no teacher is going to want to force them to change who they are to fit the current need for admissions that year.

Note that if the child is not a good fit for the school, you will soon find out with endless meetings and counseling. In a sense, the pre-K matching system helps to navigate this in advance so you have the right school for your child to hopefully maximize what your child has to offer at the moment (happiness, academic, well-being). This is a marathon and you can always change lanes later if opportunities open up and getting allies (teachers, mentors, afterschools) behind you to step up to the hurdle is key.

What I didn't expect being at a TT girls' school was just how much the culture of places like the Knickerbocker club influence the social life. Starting in Fifth grade, there are all these clubs and dances, and the girls are desperate to get invites to them, and then spend all their time talking about clothes and hair, etc. I had no idea this culture still existed and it took me by surprise. I went to a girls school out west, and it was a great place for tomboys and athletes, but the UES girls' schools are not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a tough experience for parents. Ask me how I know. And one can feel betrayed by a school that reveals this late in the year.

The PSD can effectively blackball your family in admissions and may be speaking to you in jargon or code that parents don’t know. Again, ask me how I know.

I don’t know if this still happens but a TT school can admit a young K applicant but strongly suggest that he/she be placed in preK not K.

Good luck!

So frustrating. Where did your DC end up?

OP here - this is how it feels to me, like they're saying things about my kid that I don't really understand or see when I'm with her. My most uncharitable view is that they have some kind of handshake with the progressive schools to route a few kids their way (my spouse thinks I'm being paranoid but this is where we are).

Anonymous wrote:This is a tough experience for parents. Ask me how I know. And one can feel betrayed by a school that reveals this late in the year.

The PSD can effectively blackball your family in admissions and may be speaking to you in jargon or code that parents don’t know. Again, ask me how I know.

I don’t know if this still happens but a TT school can admit a young K applicant but strongly suggest that he/she be placed in preK not K.

Good luck!

So frustrating. Where did your DC end up?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have a young June girl, aka currently a 3yr old. It’s a mucky birthday for TT, but all the schools you mentioned should be attainable if you really want to send her to independent k next year. Is your preschool a heavy feeder in Sacred Heart, Nightingale, or CGPS? I just cannot imagine a PSD saying those schools aren’t attainable to the parents of a *three year old.* I know young summer birthdays at all of them and Sacred Heart even has the pre-k option. It doesn’t make sense.

That said, I have a June 2021 girl and we didn’t apply this year. I’ve been through this process and know the schools and have older kids. I cannot stress enough how much social-emotional readiness impacts school. Forget about in kindergarten (but don’t, really— think about the size of these schools, the length of the day, the amount of transitions they go through…) but really think about middle school. This isn’t about academics— it’s about maturity, puberty, executive functioning, social media, and a hundred other things that don’t even exist for us to worry about yet… if your concern keeping her in preschool is academic boredom, 1) you’re at the wrong preschool because a good one will keep a 5s classroom academically engaged and 2) consider the social-emotional possibilities she could confront as the youngest vs the oldest.

With my first I didn’t get it and tried to push the young, quiet, summer birthday (who was reading at 3) through the process because academically, ready! It didn’t work and it was the best thing that ever happened. It really opened my eyes to the social-emotional component of their growth and what a gift it was to let that develop before sending them to kindergarten. Just food for thought from a mom who has walked the path.

We have a young July and at our TT school, about half the class with summer birthdays are “young” summer birthdays, the other half from the previous year. In some cases, a few of the younger kids even come across as more advanced than some of the older ones, so it does seem to be very child dependent at least on academics but socially they all get along and have friend groups, and my kid is thriving.

We have yet to go through middle school but so far we are pretty happy with our experience. What are the types of social experiences within for instance puberty or social media do you think gets especially tricky? I would have thought as they get older it evens out even more

To be clear, I was never talking about academics, strictly social-emotional. In my experience you see young in k/1 and then it evens out. And then you see it again in 7/8. Your kid is a year younger than many peers. When will the older peers get smart phones? When will they get Snapchat (or whatever iteration of that exists at the time)? When will they maneuver themselves independently around the city? When will they go to the club dances, loft parties, start dating, start drinking… and when will your child push back on you because “peer X (old summer) who is in the same grade as me is allowed to do Y and I should be to.”

It definitely doesn’t even out.

Nope. Parent of a June boy. He was tall and smart but socially immature in pre-k. Decided to continue to K rather than holding back. By middle school you have no idea who the older and younger kids are. My kid is now in HS and thinking about his friends it is completely random. It is actually less of an issue than in the suburbs where being late to drive can be an impediment.

I’m currently living a different experience. I can tell you who the younger kids are and it was noticeable in 7th (the big bar/bat mitzvah year and club dance year). To over-generalize, with the girls it was related to who had phones and access to social media/apps. The boys add in executive function. Happy you haven’t experienced it— I didn’t even consider the drivers license because it’s NYC.

My kid was younger and it was very noticeable in the early years. There were some kids that were a good 9 or 10 months older and there were definitely differences in executive function. I found it very frustrating but it seemed to even out around 2nd or 3rd grade. In 8th grade I don't think you can tell the difference. My kid didn't get a phone until much later than the other kids but it had nothing to do with age. Most of the kids got phones in 5th grade. Mine had a watch for many years and now has a kid phone (Bark, Gabb) with no internet and social media. I think with phones and social media it has less to do with age and more to do individual family policies. I do anticipate as we head into high school age may factor in more when we're dealing with things like curfews and maybe dating.

This is a tough experience for parents. Ask me how I know. And one can feel betrayed by a school that reveals this late in the year.

The PSD can effectively blackball your family in admissions and may be speaking to you in jargon or code that parents don’t know. Again, ask me how I know.

I don’t know if this still happens but a TT school can admit a young K applicant but strongly suggest that he/she be placed in preK not K.

Good luck!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And the NYC middle school process is a shit show.

It’s not that bad nowadays, they no longer have much in the way of competitive applications and it’s mostly lotteried - assuming your kid gets decent grades in 4th, your baseline with a bad lottery number is the Baruch or Wagner screened programs, which are both perfectly nice.

What changes if you get a good lottery number for middle school? And do you happen to know if screened programs at Wagner/Baruch are lottery if you get decent grades in 4th?

This is D2-specific - since that includes the UES - but if you’re in the top 1/4-1/3 or so you’d have a strong likelihood of getting into one of the schools of choice like Salk/Lab/ESMS/Clinton.

For the screened programs, GPA matters more than lottery number - 4.0 with a terrible number beats a 3.75 with a fantastic one - but in practice I think like 80% of the kids who rank one of them and don’t get in somewhere that they ranked higher get in, at least if you go by the data on MySchools. So it’s more that they exclude kids with bad grades than that they only take kids with very good grades.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have a young June girl, aka currently a 3yr old. It’s a mucky birthday for TT, but all the schools you mentioned should be attainable if you really want to send her to independent k next year. Is your preschool a heavy feeder in Sacred Heart, Nightingale, or CGPS? I just cannot imagine a PSD saying those schools aren’t attainable to the parents of a *three year old.* I know young summer birthdays at all of them and Sacred Heart even has the pre-k option. It doesn’t make sense.

That said, I have a June 2021 girl and we didn’t apply this year. I’ve been through this process and know the schools and have older kids. I cannot stress enough how much social-emotional readiness impacts school. Forget about in kindergarten (but don’t, really— think about the size of these schools, the length of the day, the amount of transitions they go through…) but really think about middle school. This isn’t about academics— it’s about maturity, puberty, executive functioning, social media, and a hundred other things that don’t even exist for us to worry about yet… if your concern keeping her in preschool is academic boredom, 1) you’re at the wrong preschool because a good one will keep a 5s classroom academically engaged and 2) consider the social-emotional possibilities she could confront as the youngest vs the oldest.

With my first I didn’t get it and tried to push the young, quiet, summer birthday (who was reading at 3) through the process because academically, ready! It didn’t work and it was the best thing that ever happened. It really opened my eyes to the social-emotional component of their growth and what a gift it was to let that develop before sending them to kindergarten. Just food for thought from a mom who has walked the path.

We have a young July and at our TT school, about half the class with summer birthdays are “young” summer birthdays, the other half from the previous year. In some cases, a few of the younger kids even come across as more advanced than some of the older ones, so it does seem to be very child dependent at least on academics but socially they all get along and have friend groups, and my kid is thriving.

We have yet to go through middle school but so far we are pretty happy with our experience. What are the types of social experiences within for instance puberty or social media do you think gets especially tricky? I would have thought as they get older it evens out even more

To be clear, I was never talking about academics, strictly social-emotional. In my experience you see young in k/1 and then it evens out. And then you see it again in 7/8. Your kid is a year younger than many peers. When will the older peers get smart phones? When will they get Snapchat (or whatever iteration of that exists at the time)? When will they maneuver themselves independently around the city? When will they go to the club dances, loft parties, start dating, start drinking… and when will your child push back on you because “peer X (old summer) who is in the same grade as me is allowed to do Y and I should be to.”

It definitely doesn’t even out.

Nope. Parent of a June boy. He was tall and smart but socially immature in pre-k. Decided to continue to K rather than holding back. By middle school you have no idea who the older and younger kids are. My kid is now in HS and thinking about his friends it is completely random. It is actually less of an issue than in the suburbs where being late to drive can be an impediment.

I’m currently living a different experience. I can tell you who the younger kids are and it was noticeable in 7th (the big bar/bat mitzvah year and club dance year). To over-generalize, with the girls it was related to who had phones and access to social media/apps. The boys add in executive function. Happy you haven’t experienced it— I didn’t even consider the drivers license because it’s NYC.

Access to phones and social media has almost nothing to do with chronological age.

By the time they get to that age, things have largely evened out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And the NYC middle school process is a shit show.

It’s not that bad nowadays, they no longer have much in the way of competitive applications and it’s mostly lotteried - assuming your kid gets decent grades in 4th, your baseline with a bad lottery number is the Baruch or Wagner screened programs, which are both perfectly nice.

What changes if you get a good lottery number for middle school? And do you happen to know if screened programs at Wagner/Baruch are lottery if you get decent grades in 4th?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have a young June girl, aka currently a 3yr old. It’s a mucky birthday for TT, but all the schools you mentioned should be attainable if you really want to send her to independent k next year. Is your preschool a heavy feeder in Sacred Heart, Nightingale, or CGPS? I just cannot imagine a PSD saying those schools aren’t attainable to the parents of a *three year old.* I know young summer birthdays at all of them and Sacred Heart even has the pre-k option. It doesn’t make sense.

That said, I have a June 2021 girl and we didn’t apply this year. I’ve been through this process and know the schools and have older kids. I cannot stress enough how much social-emotional readiness impacts school. Forget about in kindergarten (but don’t, really— think about the size of these schools, the length of the day, the amount of transitions they go through…) but really think about middle school. This isn’t about academics— it’s about maturity, puberty, executive functioning, social media, and a hundred other things that don’t even exist for us to worry about yet… if your concern keeping her in preschool is academic boredom, 1) you’re at the wrong preschool because a good one will keep a 5s classroom academically engaged and 2) consider the social-emotional possibilities she could confront as the youngest vs the oldest.

With my first I didn’t get it and tried to push the young, quiet, summer birthday (who was reading at 3) through the process because academically, ready! It didn’t work and it was the best thing that ever happened. It really opened my eyes to the social-emotional component of their growth and what a gift it was to let that develop before sending them to kindergarten. Just food for thought from a mom who has walked the path.

We have a young July and at our TT school, about half the class with summer birthdays are “young” summer birthdays, the other half from the previous year. In some cases, a few of the younger kids even come across as more advanced than some of the older ones, so it does seem to be very child dependent at least on academics but socially they all get along and have friend groups, and my kid is thriving.

We have yet to go through middle school but so far we are pretty happy with our experience. What are the types of social experiences within for instance puberty or social media do you think gets especially tricky? I would have thought as they get older it evens out even more

To be clear, I was never talking about academics, strictly social-emotional. In my experience you see young in k/1 and then it evens out. And then you see it again in 7/8. Your kid is a year younger than many peers. When will the older peers get smart phones? When will they get Snapchat (or whatever iteration of that exists at the time)? When will they maneuver themselves independently around the city? When will they go to the club dances, loft parties, start dating, start drinking… and when will your child push back on you because “peer X (old summer) who is in the same grade as me is allowed to do Y and I should be to.”

It definitely doesn’t even out.

Nope. Parent of a June boy. He was tall and smart but socially immature in pre-k. Decided to continue to K rather than holding back. By middle school you have no idea who the older and younger kids are. My kid is now in HS and thinking about his friends it is completely random. It is actually less of an issue than in the suburbs where being late to drive can be an impediment.

I’m currently living a different experience. I can tell you who the younger kids are and it was noticeable in 7th (the big bar/bat mitzvah year and club dance year). To over-generalize, with the girls it was related to who had phones and access to social media/apps. The boys add in executive function. Happy you haven’t experienced it— I didn’t even consider the drivers license because it’s NYC.

Does it have to do with whether the younger kids are pressured to start dating early and/or experience bullying from the social media apps/ dances? Just trying to think of examples but wanted to clarify

From another thread.

It is there from day one. One of the issues in the K12 girls is that they red shirt kids who aren’t obvious fits — they are smart but not high IQ or children of trustees, etc. Those girls socially dominate the younger higher IQ ones just because at that age being older makes you seem cooler and smarter. They also do great in lower school, zip along but then the gap in the younger ones closes. At about 7th, the developmental advantage of being a year older disappears academically and the smart but not as smart as they think they are girls haven’t been taught to work hard and are lapped by the younger girls and it guts them. meanwhile the little ones spend their whole childhood being socially dominated and miserable. from day one, there is a game being played, advantage being taken (in the name of “equity” no less).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have a young June girl, aka currently a 3yr old. It’s a mucky birthday for TT, but all the schools you mentioned should be attainable if you really want to send her to independent k next year. Is your preschool a heavy feeder in Sacred Heart, Nightingale, or CGPS? I just cannot imagine a PSD saying those schools aren’t attainable to the parents of a *three year old.* I know young summer birthdays at all of them and Sacred Heart even has the pre-k option. It doesn’t make sense.

That said, I have a June 2021 girl and we didn’t apply this year. I’ve been through this process and know the schools and have older kids. I cannot stress enough how much social-emotional readiness impacts school. Forget about in kindergarten (but don’t, really— think about the size of these schools, the length of the day, the amount of transitions they go through…) but really think about middle school. This isn’t about academics— it’s about maturity, puberty, executive functioning, social media, and a hundred other things that don’t even exist for us to worry about yet… if your concern keeping her in preschool is academic boredom, 1) you’re at the wrong preschool because a good one will keep a 5s classroom academically engaged and 2) consider the social-emotional possibilities she could confront as the youngest vs the oldest.

With my first I didn’t get it and tried to push the young, quiet, summer birthday (who was reading at 3) through the process because academically, ready! It didn’t work and it was the best thing that ever happened. It really opened my eyes to the social-emotional component of their growth and what a gift it was to let that develop before sending them to kindergarten. Just food for thought from a mom who has walked the path.

We have a young July and at our TT school, about half the class with summer birthdays are “young” summer birthdays, the other half from the previous year. In some cases, a few of the younger kids even come across as more advanced than some of the older ones, so it does seem to be very child dependent at least on academics but socially they all get along and have friend groups, and my kid is thriving.

We have yet to go through middle school but so far we are pretty happy with our experience. What are the types of social experiences within for instance puberty or social media do you think gets especially tricky? I would have thought as they get older it evens out even more

To be clear, I was never talking about academics, strictly social-emotional. In my experience you see young in k/1 and then it evens out. And then you see it again in 7/8. Your kid is a year younger than many peers. When will the older peers get smart phones? When will they get Snapchat (or whatever iteration of that exists at the time)? When will they maneuver themselves independently around the city? When will they go to the club dances, loft parties, start dating, start drinking… and when will your child push back on you because “peer X (old summer) who is in the same grade as me is allowed to do Y and I should be to.”

It definitely doesn’t even out.

Nope. Parent of a June boy. He was tall and smart but socially immature in pre-k. Decided to continue to K rather than holding back. By middle school you have no idea who the older and younger kids are. My kid is now in HS and thinking about his friends it is completely random. It is actually less of an issue than in the suburbs where being late to drive can be an impediment.

I’m currently living a different experience. I can tell you who the younger kids are and it was noticeable in 7th (the big bar/bat mitzvah year and club dance year). To over-generalize, with the girls it was related to who had phones and access to social media/apps. The boys add in executive function. Happy you haven’t experienced it— I didn’t even consider the drivers license because it’s NYC.

Does it have to do with whether the younger kids are pressured to start dating early and/or experience bullying from the social media apps/ dances? Just trying to think of examples but wanted to clarify

The younger are trying to socially keep up. Some pushed back on their parents for the device/app/whatever because the bulk of their peers had it. Some want the same freedom moving around the city. Some of it is dating. It manifests differently for every kid. For the boys I see disparity in executive function— there is about a 14 month age range in the grade.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have a young June girl, aka currently a 3yr old. It’s a mucky birthday for TT, but all the schools you mentioned should be attainable if you really want to send her to independent k next year. Is your preschool a heavy feeder in Sacred Heart, Nightingale, or CGPS? I just cannot imagine a PSD saying those schools aren’t attainable to the parents of a *three year old.* I know young summer birthdays at all of them and Sacred Heart even has the pre-k option. It doesn’t make sense.

That said, I have a June 2021 girl and we didn’t apply this year. I’ve been through this process and know the schools and have older kids. I cannot stress enough how much social-emotional readiness impacts school. Forget about in kindergarten (but don’t, really— think about the size of these schools, the length of the day, the amount of transitions they go through…) but really think about middle school. This isn’t about academics— it’s about maturity, puberty, executive functioning, social media, and a hundred other things that don’t even exist for us to worry about yet… if your concern keeping her in preschool is academic boredom, 1) you’re at the wrong preschool because a good one will keep a 5s classroom academically engaged and 2) consider the social-emotional possibilities she could confront as the youngest vs the oldest.

With my first I didn’t get it and tried to push the young, quiet, summer birthday (who was reading at 3) through the process because academically, ready! It didn’t work and it was the best thing that ever happened. It really opened my eyes to the social-emotional component of their growth and what a gift it was to let that develop before sending them to kindergarten. Just food for thought from a mom who has walked the path.

We have a young July and at our TT school, about half the class with summer birthdays are “young” summer birthdays, the other half from the previous year. In some cases, a few of the younger kids even come across as more advanced than some of the older ones, so it does seem to be very child dependent at least on academics but socially they all get along and have friend groups, and my kid is thriving.

We have yet to go through middle school but so far we are pretty happy with our experience. What are the types of social experiences within for instance puberty or social media do you think gets especially tricky? I would have thought as they get older it evens out even more

To be clear, I was never talking about academics, strictly social-emotional. In my experience you see young in k/1 and then it evens out. And then you see it again in 7/8. Your kid is a year younger than many peers. When will the older peers get smart phones? When will they get Snapchat (or whatever iteration of that exists at the time)? When will they maneuver themselves independently around the city? When will they go to the club dances, loft parties, start dating, start drinking… and when will your child push back on you because “peer X (old summer) who is in the same grade as me is allowed to do Y and I should be to.”

It definitely doesn’t even out.

Nope. Parent of a June boy. He was tall and smart but socially immature in pre-k. Decided to continue to K rather than holding back. By middle school you have no idea who the older and younger kids are. My kid is now in HS and thinking about his friends it is completely random. It is actually less of an issue than in the suburbs where being late to drive can be an impediment.

I’m currently living a different experience. I can tell you who the younger kids are and it was noticeable in 7th (the big bar/bat mitzvah year and club dance year). To over-generalize, with the girls it was related to who had phones and access to social media/apps. The boys add in executive function. Happy you haven’t experienced it— I didn’t even consider the drivers license because it’s NYC.

Does it have to do with whether the younger kids are pressured to start dating early and/or experience bullying from the social media apps/ dances? Just trying to think of examples but wanted to clarify