Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This morning I was enjoying a morning sleep in when my kids were at my ex's house, but my 10th grader woke up me at 6:30 to ask when I was taking her to the dermatologist.

So I said, well I assumed your dad was taking you, and she sprang it on him, and he was flustered, but he did it.

You just have to drop the rope.

I could say, "Hey, just for the record, please ask me ahead of time if you need my help with doctor's appointments on your days!" and he would say, "Of course, excuse excuse excuse, blah blah blah," and then he would do the same exact thing. The only way to stop doing it for him is to stop doing it for him. I knew he would probably not notice/assume/forget. But I knew that carrying the mental load and reminding him and acting like it was normal of me to worry about this for him at all would just perpetuate the cycle. Break the cycle. He'll figure it out.

Just want to note you can also set boundaries like that while married.

It's much more difficult and exhausting. My xH refused to do chores, and even if I "set boundaries" by refusing to do his half, he just....wouldn't do them. The dishes would pile up on the kitchen counters for days/weeks. If PP was married, the DD would be constantly asking her rather than dad, or dad would sneak out of the house to go to work, etc.

There's been data showing that men, not just married men but even men in workplaces, just don't do things when a woman is present because they assume the woman will handle it. Getting physically away from a man by itself often makes them step up.

Plus, you don't have to deal with a man child constantly nagging you for sex as well.

Strongly disagree. Custody schedules and multiple households sounds like a PIA. Then add in a new GF/BF/spouse.

Men are typically too lazy to leave and easy to train.

You simply have to work and have a job with somewhat frequent travel. The most unequal marriages I know of are SAHMs who rarely if ever go anywhere.

NP. Oh, why aren't we all as clever as you? Our useless, nasty husbands would be trained by now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems a common theme is wives leaving because they just can’t tolerate having a child for a husband. Weaponzied incompetence, performative parenting, etc. but then, once divorced, you are supposed to continue doing all the organizing and invisible labor, or else you aren’t a cooperative co parent and “the kids will suffer”. We divorce them when they don’t pull their weight in marriage but then tolerate it once divorced.

NP here. Divorce does not make it better. No, he does not pay me alimony or child support. 50/50 is BS.

Another NP in the middle of it. From the day I knew I was pregnant I realized I was in a bad place, but told myself to just hang in and maybe it would get better. It didn’t. So then it became just stay in until DC can talk, stay until DC can take transit, stay until DC is 18. I knew that as bad as my life was it would be worse doing all the same stuff but outside the financial and legal protections of a marriage.

I was right. DH filed and is now very happy to have a legal system that he can use to tell me what to do and to stand behind him as he does something below the bare minimum. There are armies of apologists for men ready to work for $500/hour to focus on “future potential as a parent” and making moms do it all under the guise of “cooperation”.

I’m rambling, but yes, coparenting is even more of a scam than marriage was, for me, at least. It’s a weaponization of the legal system to protect lazy men’s egos at the cost of children and families.

Yikes.
So you have teens now and need to coparent with this high conflict narcissist?
Can the kid say I want to be at XYZ house 100% of the time or is their alluring money, perks, no house rules at one place?

Younger than driving age, old enough to have phones.

Right now they are with me 100% by their choice and because he didn’t have a house for a while as we await a court-ordered parenting plan because he was angry that they were refusing to see him ordered a custody evaluation to prove that they want to be with him. I (literally) push them out the door when he comes to pick them up to see him. His house is definitely not alluring. It’s sort of a last minute corporate rental or maybe an Airbnb or something and it sounds like there’s nothing for them to do there, so they wear headphones and take homework and wait for the time to be over. He tries to make them play board games or watch his favorite sport, neither of which are things they have ever enjoyed. He often misses time with them to go on fun personal trips or is late coming back from international travel for work.

I don’t actually understand how he would be able to parent if he’s awarded partial custody but none of the third party professionals seem concerned. Some of them have questioned why I’m not working harder to accommodate his “different abilities”, and one implied that I need to teach him how to cook or set up special activities for them to do or coach him through the kids’ schedules or whatever. I’m separated and not by choice- I hardly think I’m in a position to say “Larla’s soccer is on field x this week, so you’ll need to pick her up no later than 2:10 to account for traffic in order to get her there by 3:00 even though Google Maps says it’s only a 15 minute drive.”
But that’s not how some of these professionals see it.

These "professionals" constantly enabling men are such losers. What would happen if you told them it's not your job to raise him?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This morning I was enjoying a morning sleep in when my kids were at my ex's house, but my 10th grader woke up me at 6:30 to ask when I was taking her to the dermatologist.

So I said, well I assumed your dad was taking you, and she sprang it on him, and he was flustered, but he did it.

You just have to drop the rope.

I could say, "Hey, just for the record, please ask me ahead of time if you need my help with doctor's appointments on your days!" and he would say, "Of course, excuse excuse excuse, blah blah blah," and then he would do the same exact thing. The only way to stop doing it for him is to stop doing it for him. I knew he would probably not notice/assume/forget. But I knew that carrying the mental load and reminding him and acting like it was normal of me to worry about this for him at all would just perpetuate the cycle. Break the cycle. He'll figure it out.

Just want to note you can also set boundaries like that while married.

It's much more difficult and exhausting. My xH refused to do chores, and even if I "set boundaries" by refusing to do his half, he just....wouldn't do them. The dishes would pile up on the kitchen counters for days/weeks. If PP was married, the DD would be constantly asking her rather than dad, or dad would sneak out of the house to go to work, etc.

There's been data showing that men, not just married men but even men in workplaces, just don't do things when a woman is present because they assume the woman will handle it. Getting physically away from a man by itself often makes them step up.

Plus, you don't have to deal with a man child constantly nagging you for sex as well.

Strongly disagree. Custody schedules and multiple households sounds like a PIA. Then add in a new GF/BF/spouse.

Men are typically too lazy to leave and easy to train.

You simply have to work and have a job with somewhat frequent travel. The most unequal marriages I know of are SAHMs who rarely if ever go anywhere.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This morning I was enjoying a morning sleep in when my kids were at my ex's house, but my 10th grader woke up me at 6:30 to ask when I was taking her to the dermatologist.

So I said, well I assumed your dad was taking you, and she sprang it on him, and he was flustered, but he did it.

You just have to drop the rope.

I could say, "Hey, just for the record, please ask me ahead of time if you need my help with doctor's appointments on your days!" and he would say, "Of course, excuse excuse excuse, blah blah blah," and then he would do the same exact thing. The only way to stop doing it for him is to stop doing it for him. I knew he would probably not notice/assume/forget. But I knew that carrying the mental load and reminding him and acting like it was normal of me to worry about this for him at all would just perpetuate the cycle. Break the cycle. He'll figure it out.

Just want to note you can also set boundaries like that while married.

It's much more difficult and exhausting. My xH refused to do chores, and even if I "set boundaries" by refusing to do his half, he just....wouldn't do them. The dishes would pile up on the kitchen counters for days/weeks. If PP was married, the DD would be constantly asking her rather than dad, or dad would sneak out of the house to go to work, etc.

There's been data showing that men, not just married men but even men in workplaces, just don't do things when a woman is present because they assume the woman will handle it. Getting physically away from a man by itself often makes them step up.

Plus, you don't have to deal with a man child constantly nagging you for sex as well.

It depends on the people involved and the quality of the relationship. Someone who absolutely refuses to do any chores at all is just dead weight. But often it's not that dire. Many men who try to turn their wives into their mothers *will* contribute, it's just that they want to be asked to do things and won't take initiative. Or they try to get out of doing especially unpleasant tasks even when they are necessary (changing diapers, toilet training, etc.). Some men are extremely sensitive to ANY criticism, so they'll do stuff but then the second their spouse says anything that could even be perceived as negative, they quit (meanwhile my DH will tell me flat out that I load the dishwasher "wrong" and I will smile and say if he wants it done a specific way, he can do it himself). Yes this is "man baby" behavior but it can sometimes be addressed by just being direct, making it clear what your expectations and limits are, etc.

I also would not tolerate someone nagging me for sex.

A conversation I had to have with my DH quite a bit, especially after we had a kid, is that I didn't want to engage in some performance of 1950s gender roles. Which means that not only do I want to cook and clean while he sits around reading the newspaper, but I also don't tolerate him painting me as a nagging wife for expecting him to clean up after himself, or behaving like he is congenitally incapable of scrubbing a toilet or helping our DD with her hair.

For me it was worth the effort. A lot of this was him reverting to patterns his parents had engaged in or that had been kind of drilled into him by society by osmosis. Forcing a conversation, being really clear about the kind of marriage I wanted, etc., helped a lot.

If it had not, I would have divorced him. But sadly a lot of men really do require "training" because social forces and family cultures have often taught them how to be lazy man babies and no one has ever told them that won't fly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This morning I was enjoying a morning sleep in when my kids were at my ex's house, but my 10th grader woke up me at 6:30 to ask when I was taking her to the dermatologist.

So I said, well I assumed your dad was taking you, and she sprang it on him, and he was flustered, but he did it.

You just have to drop the rope.

I could say, "Hey, just for the record, please ask me ahead of time if you need my help with doctor's appointments on your days!" and he would say, "Of course, excuse excuse excuse, blah blah blah," and then he would do the same exact thing. The only way to stop doing it for him is to stop doing it for him. I knew he would probably not notice/assume/forget. But I knew that carrying the mental load and reminding him and acting like it was normal of me to worry about this for him at all would just perpetuate the cycle. Break the cycle. He'll figure it out.

Example of him parentifying his daughter (and creating anxiety) and he still thinks he’s killing it at parenting.

NP and the tween parentification is a thing in our house. My ex says it’s our Dd’s fault if she’s hungry when he brings her back from visitation because she didn’t ask for meals, and said the reason she doesn’t have toiletries at his house is because she didn’t bring any over for herself to use. He recently got mad at her because she didn’t ask him questions about his life when they went out to eat together.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems a common theme is wives leaving because they just can’t tolerate having a child for a husband. Weaponzied incompetence, performative parenting, etc. but then, once divorced, you are supposed to continue doing all the organizing and invisible labor, or else you aren’t a cooperative co parent and “the kids will suffer”. We divorce them when they don’t pull their weight in marriage but then tolerate it once divorced.

NP here. Divorce does not make it better. No, he does not pay me alimony or child support. 50/50 is BS.

Another NP in the middle of it. From the day I knew I was pregnant I realized I was in a bad place, but told myself to just hang in and maybe it would get better. It didn’t. So then it became just stay in until DC can talk, stay until DC can take transit, stay until DC is 18. I knew that as bad as my life was it would be worse doing all the same stuff but outside the financial and legal protections of a marriage.

I was right. DH filed and is now very happy to have a legal system that he can use to tell me what to do and to stand behind him as he does something below the bare minimum. There are armies of apologists for men ready to work for $500/hour to focus on “future potential as a parent” and making moms do it all under the guise of “cooperation”.

I’m rambling, but yes, coparenting is even more of a scam than marriage was, for me, at least. It’s a weaponization of the legal system to protect lazy men’s egos at the cost of children and families.

Yikes.
So you have teens now and need to coparent with this high conflict narcissist?
Can the kid say I want to be at XYZ house 100% of the time or is their alluring money, perks, no house rules at one place?

Younger than driving age, old enough to have phones.

Right now they are with me 100% by their choice and because he didn’t have a house for a while as we await a court-ordered parenting plan because he was angry that they were refusing to see him ordered a custody evaluation to prove that they want to be with him. I (literally) push them out the door when he comes to pick them up to see him. His house is definitely not alluring. It’s sort of a last minute corporate rental or maybe an Airbnb or something and it sounds like there’s nothing for them to do there, so they wear headphones and take homework and wait for the time to be over. He tries to make them play board games or watch his favorite sport, neither of which are things they have ever enjoyed. He often misses time with them to go on fun personal trips or is late coming back from international travel for work.

I don’t actually understand how he would be able to parent if he’s awarded partial custody but none of the third party professionals seem concerned. Some of them have questioned why I’m not working harder to accommodate his “different abilities”, and one implied that I need to teach him how to cook or set up special activities for them to do or coach him through the kids’ schedules or whatever. I’m separated and not by choice- I hardly think I’m in a position to say “Larla’s soccer is on field x this week, so you’ll need to pick her up no later than 2:10 to account for traffic in order to get her there by 3:00 even though Google Maps says it’s only a 15 minute drive.”
But that’s not how some of these professionals see it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This morning I was enjoying a morning sleep in when my kids were at my ex's house, but my 10th grader woke up me at 6:30 to ask when I was taking her to the dermatologist.

So I said, well I assumed your dad was taking you, and she sprang it on him, and he was flustered, but he did it.

You just have to drop the rope.

I could say, "Hey, just for the record, please ask me ahead of time if you need my help with doctor's appointments on your days!" and he would say, "Of course, excuse excuse excuse, blah blah blah," and then he would do the same exact thing. The only way to stop doing it for him is to stop doing it for him. I knew he would probably not notice/assume/forget. But I knew that carrying the mental load and reminding him and acting like it was normal of me to worry about this for him at all would just perpetuate the cycle. Break the cycle. He'll figure it out.

Just want to note you can also set boundaries like that while married.

It's much more difficult and exhausting. My xH refused to do chores, and even if I "set boundaries" by refusing to do his half, he just....wouldn't do them. The dishes would pile up on the kitchen counters for days/weeks. If PP was married, the DD would be constantly asking her rather than dad, or dad would sneak out of the house to go to work, etc.

There's been data showing that men, not just married men but even men in workplaces, just don't do things when a woman is present because they assume the woman will handle it. Getting physically away from a man by itself often makes them step up.

Plus, you don't have to deal with a man child constantly nagging you for sex as well.

For me, it was a choice between doing all the work and seeing him lay on the couch, or doing all the work and not having him in the house. Yes, it is hard doing all the work, but much less stressful when he is not here in the house doing nothing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one can make you overcompensate for a lazy parent. it’s a choice. Divorce is better because you get free from the emotional abuse. You compartmentalize and do your best to raise your kids well on your time and let the rest go.

This is my approach and my kid is thriving. I also put my kid in therapy. She can process her dad’s laziness further when she’s an adult, but Mom will not be playing martyr. It’s unhealthy and sets a very poor example.

This is the way. I wish I’d figured it out earlier, but I didn’t until middle school. By HS, I grey rocked exDH. His relationship with his kids was his responsibility. The therapist helped them set boundaries. They love their dad, but they don’t have a high opinion of him and don’t think he’s reliable.

yep. My sister never bad mouthed her ex to their kid. She said she didn't need to because their kid would eventually come to see what a loser he was. And they did.

Anonymous wrote:This morning I was enjoying a morning sleep in when my kids were at my ex's house, but my 10th grader woke up me at 6:30 to ask when I was taking her to the dermatologist.

So I said, well I assumed your dad was taking you, and she sprang it on him, and he was flustered, but he did it.

You just have to drop the rope.

I could say, "Hey, just for the record, please ask me ahead of time if you need my help with doctor's appointments on your days!" and he would say, "Of course, excuse excuse excuse, blah blah blah," and then he would do the same exact thing. The only way to stop doing it for him is to stop doing it for him. I knew he would probably not notice/assume/forget. But I knew that carrying the mental load and reminding him and acting like it was normal of me to worry about this for him at all would just perpetuate the cycle. Break the cycle. He'll figure it out.

Example of him parentifying his daughter (and creating anxiety) and he still thinks he’s killing it at parenting.

Anonymous wrote:Some men do become better fathers after divorce. Sometimes the divorce was a wakeup call. Sometimes the divorce face the father the ability to parent without the mom treating him as some sort of subordinate assistant. When you have your kids 50 percent of the time, you have a lot of opportunity to be a good parent. Or a bad one.

Or the kids are over age 12 so he parentifies them and they do everything for themselves and him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems a common theme is wives leaving because they just can’t tolerate having a child for a husband. Weaponzied incompetence, performative parenting, etc. but then, once divorced, you are supposed to continue doing all the organizing and invisible labor, or else you aren’t a cooperative co parent and “the kids will suffer”. We divorce them when they don’t pull their weight in marriage but then tolerate it once divorced.

NP here. Divorce does not make it better. No, he does not pay me alimony or child support. 50/50 is BS.

Another NP in the middle of it. From the day I knew I was pregnant I realized I was in a bad place, but told myself to just hang in and maybe it would get better. It didn’t. So then it became just stay in until DC can talk, stay until DC can take transit, stay until DC is 18. I knew that as bad as my life was it would be worse doing all the same stuff but outside the financial and legal protections of a marriage.

I was right. DH filed and is now very happy to have a legal system that he can use to tell me what to do and to stand behind him as he does something below the bare minimum. There are armies of apologists for men ready to work for $500/hour to focus on “future potential as a parent” and making moms do it all under the guise of “cooperation”.

I’m rambling, but yes, coparenting is even more of a scam than marriage was, for me, at least. It’s a weaponization of the legal system to protect lazy men’s egos at the cost of children and families.

Yikes.
So you have teens now and need to coparent with this high conflict narcissist?
Can the kid say I want to be at XYZ house 100% of the time or is their alluring money, perks, no house rules at one place?

Anonymous wrote:This morning I was enjoying a morning sleep in when my kids were at my ex's house, but my 10th grader woke up me at 6:30 to ask when I was taking her to the dermatologist.

So I said, well I assumed your dad was taking you, and she sprang it on him, and he was flustered, but he did it.

You just have to drop the rope.

I could say, "Hey, just for the record, please ask me ahead of time if you need my help with doctor's appointments on your days!" and he would say, "Of course, excuse excuse excuse, blah blah blah," and then he would do the same exact thing. The only way to stop doing it for him is to stop doing it for him. I knew he would probably not notice/assume/forget. But I knew that carrying the mental load and reminding him and acting like it was normal of me to worry about this for him at all would just perpetuate the cycle. Break the cycle. He'll figure it out.

Just want to note you can also set boundaries like that while married.

Anonymous wrote:Seems a common theme is wives leaving because they just can’t tolerate having a child for a husband. Weaponzied incompetence, performative parenting, etc. but then, once divorced, you are supposed to continue doing all the organizing and invisible labor, or else you aren’t a cooperative co parent and “the kids will suffer”. We divorce them when they don’t pull their weight in marriage but then tolerate it once divorced.

Not clear- what exactly is the ex husband doing during his 50% coparenting time? Nothing? Pizza & screens? Hired a sitter or forced his mom to be there?

That’s on him and the kids have to manage through that. Not the ex wife.

Anonymous wrote:No one can make you overcompensate for a lazy parent. it’s a choice. Divorce is better because you get free from the emotional abuse. You compartmentalize and do your best to raise your kids well on your time and let the rest go.

This is my approach and my kid is thriving. I also put my kid in therapy. She can process her dad’s laziness further when she’s an adult, but Mom will not be playing martyr. It’s unhealthy and sets a very poor example.

This is the way. I wish I’d figured it out earlier, but I didn’t until middle school. By HS, I grey rocked exDH. His relationship with his kids was his responsibility. The therapist helped them set boundaries. They love their dad, but they don’t have a high opinion of him and don’t think he’s reliable.