She hasn't apologized because she doesn't think she did anything wrong. There are people in the older generation who think they can say and do anything to their kids/their spouses and it'll have to be tolerated. It's very new for adult kids to stand up and tell their mom/MIL that they have to apologize for their wrongs. Not sure if it has to do with narcissism or personality disorder or simply how things were -- the elders were tolerated no matter what. I stood up to my MIL (and apparently I was the only one ever to stand up to her) and she hasn't talked to me in 20 years. Hasn't seen grandkids either. So for women like this, it's the hill to die on. Yes, it's precisely the idea of strict hierarchy that the other poster described, she is on top and will never admit doing anything wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is how some parents are. She doesn’t think parents apologize. In her mind, she’s thinking just what you are - why is my son so stubborn that he can’t just get over this? Gosh, he’s so sensitive and he and his wife make a big deal about everything. I can’t believe he’s willing to lose his mother over this.

Not agreeing with her! But this is what she’s thinking. My mother is similar and this is exactly what she thinks.

OP’s MIL FAFO’d! It’s funny, but I’ll be here long after DH’s 70+ mother will. It makes me think of Taylor Swift’s Father Figure: “You made a deal with this devil, turns out my d***’s bigger!”

This is such a weird response to me. Estrangement is sad. It’s sad that some people treat other family abusively and are unwilling/unable to stop. It’s sad that some people jump to estrangement over things that are manageable. Sometimes it’s necessary but you can’t really claim the high ground when you’re making gross statements like this.

You have quite a narrow mind or you just believe platitudes over reality. Estrangement is sad for some but not sad for many other others. It’s OK that you feel sad but what you feel is not what everyone feels. Your perspective is similar to the one how a woman can’t be truly fulfilled without children. Too many people just accepted the platitude that not having kids is sad. It’s not! Many people are childless by choice and have very happy fulfilled lives. I’m sure you are shaking your head assuming it’s sad because you can only imagine within your own little bubble of constraint!,

+100

My husband is extremely low contact with his father. It’s SAD for me to imagine MY relationship with MY dad reaching that level, but I can also understand and appreciate how peaceful and necessary it was for my husband to pull so far back from his dad.

Low contact is very different than no contact and exactly the sort of compromise healthy people come to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it really really weird when family cuts off other family. Invariably when I hear details, there are issues on both sides even if one person is more at fault. I hear a lot of stories of defensive language like ‘they were toxic’ ‘I need boundaries’ etc but the reality is that if the person wasn’t also contributing in some way, they wouldn’t need to be so strident and rigid. I have a family member who is likely mentally ill and has caused tons of drama, but are they cut off? No. I feel sorry for them, realize they are a highly imperfect person and I look for ways to connect that are not high conflict. If I engage with them and fight, what does that say about me? I know I can’t expect them to operate on the same emotional level as I do. And that’s ok.

They/we are connected to each other in various ways and ‘cutting them off’ would impact not only me but others. And to me, that’s selfish and unfair.

A parent telling my child they wish they never had me was the final straw

Is that good enough for you ?

One told my preteen, “I never loved your mom.” So yeah, PP will never get it. Or, she’s a narc herself.

I am not a narc but yes, your mother *said* something hurtful. I suspect she’s mentally ill/a narc and it might be compounded by aging issues. Are you so fragile that you can’t see that and rise above her and feel sorry for her? IME the people who cut off family members often do not fix their lives by doing so, they only take the extreme hypersensitivity and aggression to other relationships - you’re doing it right here in these posts with a stranger… not everyone, but many.

Whatever! She doesn’t love me, she doesn’t have to see me; no skin, right? But that also means you don’t get to influence my minor children, either. You can do or think whatever you want, it doesn’t affect me and mine.

As I suspected, the ‘protection of children’ is more about you. That’s fine, do what you want, but just eyes wide open that you are carrying forward generational trauma and rifts that may likely be carried onto generations of your family. So generations of family members - aunts, uncles, cousins, etc- may not get to know each other because of this. And if your mom died tomorrow and left $1 million dollars to a sibling instead of some to your children, you’d be okay with that? Would they? Would they as adults?

IME people like this may do hurtful or unequal things in their will as their last "gotcha." This is a terrible reason to keep someone in your life.

Maybe yes, maybe no. But you’re making decisions for your children’s relationships, their cousins, aunts, uncles etc. To me, the best lesson to children is that human relationships are challenging but usually worthwhile and it’s important to learn how to navigate them, good and bad, especially with family bc family is family. I’d prefer to model that to my children. Not ‘uncle Bob did this and that and so I’m never speaking to him again!’ which usually means they won’t either, and then suddenly you have a growing circle of rifts that’s passed down. How tragic. Those bonds they will miss out on can never be repaired.

You can disengage from the negatives if they’re not fixable, and take only the good parts bc invariably there are some. I cannot imagine cutting off ALL contact for my kids with their grandparents bc my elderly mother said something hurtful about me. I think people like this assume intact families are all perfect, or alternatively that we are all just secretly hiding major abuse, but the reality is typically somewhere in the middle.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is how some parents are. She doesn’t think parents apologize. In her mind, she’s thinking just what you are - why is my son so stubborn that he can’t just get over this? Gosh, he’s so sensitive and he and his wife make a big deal about everything. I can’t believe he’s willing to lose his mother over this.

Not agreeing with her! But this is what she’s thinking. My mother is similar and this is exactly what she thinks.

OP’s MIL FAFO’d! It’s funny, but I’ll be here long after DH’s 70+ mother will. It makes me think of Taylor Swift’s Father Figure: “You made a deal with this devil, turns out my d***’s bigger!”

This is such a weird response to me. Estrangement is sad. It’s sad that some people treat other family abusively and are unwilling/unable to stop. It’s sad that some people jump to estrangement over things that are manageable. Sometimes it’s necessary but you can’t really claim the high ground when you’re making gross statements like this.

You have quite a narrow mind or you just believe platitudes over reality. Estrangement is sad for some but not sad for many other others. It’s OK that you feel sad but what you feel is not what everyone feels. Your perspective is similar to the one how a woman can’t be truly fulfilled without children. Too many people just accepted the platitude that not having kids is sad. It’s not! Many people are childless by choice and have very happy fulfilled lives. I’m sure you are shaking your head assuming it’s sad because you can only imagine within your own little bubble of constraint!,

+100

My husband is extremely low contact with his father. It’s SAD for me to imagine MY relationship with MY dad reaching that level, but I can also understand and appreciate how peaceful and necessary it was for my husband to pull so far back from his dad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is how some parents are. She doesn’t think parents apologize. In her mind, she’s thinking just what you are - why is my son so stubborn that he can’t just get over this? Gosh, he’s so sensitive and he and his wife make a big deal about everything. I can’t believe he’s willing to lose his mother over this.

Not agreeing with her! But this is what she’s thinking. My mother is similar and this is exactly what she thinks.

OP’s MIL FAFO’d! It’s funny, but I’ll be here long after DH’s 70+ mother will. It makes me think of Taylor Swift’s Father Figure: “You made a deal with this devil, turns out my d***’s bigger!”

This is such a weird response to me. Estrangement is sad. It’s sad that some people treat other family abusively and are unwilling/unable to stop. It’s sad that some people jump to estrangement over things that are manageable. Sometimes it’s necessary but you can’t really claim the high ground when you’re making gross statements like this.

You have quite a narrow mind or you just believe platitudes over reality. Estrangement is sad for some but not sad for many other others. It’s OK that you feel sad but what you feel is not what everyone feels. Your perspective is similar to the one how a woman can’t be truly fulfilled without children. Too many people just accepted the platitude that not having kids is sad. It’s not! Many people are childless by choice and have very happy fulfilled lives. I’m sure you are shaking your head assuming it’s sad because you can only imagine within your own little bubble of constraint!,

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my mother's case, she prioritizes her selfish rage over a relationship with her only child. In my father's case, he prioritizes making my mother happy (which isn't actually possible) over having a relationship with his only child.

This makes a lot of sense. I'm the PP whose mother is dead and we had a complicated relationship. My dad is incredibly lonely without my mom. He's miserable. They were each other's world. I'm busy with my own kids and life. Of course they prioritize each other because they spend almost all their time together. Just like you put your own husband and kids first, your father prioritizes his wife as the most important person in his life.

It’s not always that simple. (Or healthy.)

Who said it was simple? But choices are made and lines are drawn. I get why my dad backed my mom even if I don't agree with it. I was right and she was wrong, in my mind, but for him it was survival. He lived with her, spent every day with her, he went home with her at night. Once the kids are grown and out of the house, the spouses become each other's priority again, like it was before kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it really really weird when family cuts off other family. Invariably when I hear details, there are issues on both sides even if one person is more at fault. I hear a lot of stories of defensive language like ‘they were toxic’ ‘I need boundaries’ etc but the reality is that if the person wasn’t also contributing in some way, they wouldn’t need to be so strident and rigid. I have a family member who is likely mentally ill and has caused tons of drama, but are they cut off? No. I feel sorry for them, realize they are a highly imperfect person and I look for ways to connect that are not high conflict. If I engage with them and fight, what does that say about me? I know I can’t expect them to operate on the same emotional level as I do. And that’s ok.

They/we are connected to each other in various ways and ‘cutting them off’ would impact not only me but others. And to me, that’s selfish and unfair.

A parent telling my child they wish they never had me was the final straw

Is that good enough for you ?

One told my preteen, “I never loved your mom.” So yeah, PP will never get it. Or, she’s a narc herself.

I am not a narc but yes, your mother *said* something hurtful. I suspect she’s mentally ill/a narc and it might be compounded by aging issues. Are you so fragile that you can’t see that and rise above her and feel sorry for her? IME the people who cut off family members often do not fix their lives by doing so, they only take the extreme hypersensitivity and aggression to other relationships - you’re doing it right here in these posts with a stranger… not everyone, but many.

Whatever! She doesn’t love me, she doesn’t have to see me; no skin, right? But that also means you don’t get to influence my minor children, either. You can do or think whatever you want, it doesn’t affect me and mine.

As I suspected, the ‘protection of children’ is more about you. That’s fine, do what you want, but just eyes wide open that you are carrying forward generational trauma and rifts that may likely be carried onto generations of your family. So generations of family members - aunts, uncles, cousins, etc- may not get to know each other because of this. And if your mom died tomorrow and left $1 million dollars to a sibling instead of some to your children, you’d be okay with that? Would they? Would they as adults?

I am at complete peace with my decision. We see other family members separate from my mother. I’ve long ago come to peace with selling out to myself and maintaining a relationship just for an inheritance 🙄

+10000000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is how some parents are. She doesn’t think parents apologize. In her mind, she’s thinking just what you are - why is my son so stubborn that he can’t just get over this? Gosh, he’s so sensitive and he and his wife make a big deal about everything. I can’t believe he’s willing to lose his mother over this.

Not agreeing with her! But this is what she’s thinking. My mother is similar and this is exactly what she thinks.

OP’s MIL FAFO’d! It’s funny, but I’ll be here long after DH’s 70+ mother will. It makes me think of Taylor Swift’s Father Figure: “You made a deal with this devil, turns out my d***’s bigger!”

This is such a weird response to me. Estrangement is sad. It’s sad that some people treat other family abusively and are unwilling/unable to stop. It’s sad that some people jump to estrangement over things that are manageable. Sometimes it’s necessary but you can’t really claim the high ground when you’re making gross statements like this.

Sweetie, I got tired of standing up here on this mountain all alone, so yeah, I climbed down. My opinion stands.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it really really weird when family cuts off other family. Invariably when I hear details, there are issues on both sides even if one person is more at fault. I hear a lot of stories of defensive language like ‘they were toxic’ ‘I need boundaries’ etc but the reality is that if the person wasn’t also contributing in some way, they wouldn’t need to be so strident and rigid. I have a family member who is likely mentally ill and has caused tons of drama, but are they cut off? No. I feel sorry for them, realize they are a highly imperfect person and I look for ways to connect that are not high conflict. If I engage with them and fight, what does that say about me? I know I can’t expect them to operate on the same emotional level as I do. And that’s ok.

They/we are connected to each other in various ways and ‘cutting them off’ would impact not only me but others. And to me, that’s selfish and unfair.

A parent telling my child they wish they never had me was the final straw

Is that good enough for you ?

One told my preteen, “I never loved your mom.” So yeah, PP will never get it. Or, she’s a narc herself.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is how some parents are. She doesn’t think parents apologize. In her mind, she’s thinking just what you are - why is my son so stubborn that he can’t just get over this? Gosh, he’s so sensitive and he and his wife make a big deal about everything. I can’t believe he’s willing to lose his mother over this.

Not agreeing with her! But this is what she’s thinking. My mother is similar and this is exactly what she thinks.

OP’s MIL FAFO’d! It’s funny, but I’ll be here long after DH’s 70+ mother will. It makes me think of Taylor Swift’s Father Figure: “You made a deal with this devil, turns out my d***’s bigger!”

This is such a weird response to me. Estrangement is sad. It’s sad that some people treat other family abusively and are unwilling/unable to stop. It’s sad that some people jump to estrangement over things that are manageable. Sometimes it’s necessary but you can’t really claim the high ground when you’re making gross statements like this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my mother's case, she prioritizes her selfish rage over a relationship with her only child. In my father's case, he prioritizes making my mother happy (which isn't actually possible) over having a relationship with his only child.

This makes a lot of sense. I'm the PP whose mother is dead and we had a complicated relationship. My dad is incredibly lonely without my mom. He's miserable. They were each other's world. I'm busy with my own kids and life. Of course they prioritize each other because they spend almost all their time together. Just like you put your own husband and kids first, your father prioritizes his wife as the most important person in his life.

It’s not always that simple. (Or healthy.)

Anonymous wrote:In my mother's case, she prioritizes her selfish rage over a relationship with her only child. In my father's case, he prioritizes making my mother happy (which isn't actually possible) over having a relationship with his only child.

This makes a lot of sense. I'm the PP whose mother is dead and we had a complicated relationship. My dad is incredibly lonely without my mom. He's miserable. They were each other's world. I'm busy with my own kids and life. Of course they prioritize each other because they spend almost all their time together. Just like you put your own husband and kids first, your father prioritizes his wife as the most important person in his life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it really really weird when family cuts off other family. Invariably when I hear details, there are issues on both sides even if one person is more at fault. I hear a lot of stories of defensive language like ‘they were toxic’ ‘I need boundaries’ etc but the reality is that if the person wasn’t also contributing in some way, they wouldn’t need to be so strident and rigid. I have a family member who is likely mentally ill and has caused tons of drama, but are they cut off? No. I feel sorry for them, realize they are a highly imperfect person and I look for ways to connect that are not high conflict. If I engage with them and fight, what does that say about me? I know I can’t expect them to operate on the same emotional level as I do. And that’s ok.

They/we are connected to each other in various ways and ‘cutting them off’ would impact not only me but others. And to me, that’s selfish and unfair.

A parent telling my child they wish they never had me was the final straw

Is that good enough for you ?

One told my preteen, “I never loved your mom.” So yeah, PP will never get it. Or, she’s a narc herself.

I am not a narc but yes, your mother *said* something hurtful. I suspect she’s mentally ill/a narc and it might be compounded by aging issues. Are you so fragile that you can’t see that and rise above her and feel sorry for her? IME the people who cut off family members often do not fix their lives by doing so, they only take the extreme hypersensitivity and aggression to other relationships - you’re doing it right here in these posts with a stranger… not everyone, but many.

Whatever! She doesn’t love me, she doesn’t have to see me; no skin, right? But that also means you don’t get to influence my minor children, either. You can do or think whatever you want, it doesn’t affect me and mine.

As I suspected, the ‘protection of children’ is more about you. That’s fine, do what you want, but just eyes wide open that you are carrying forward generational trauma and rifts that may likely be carried onto generations of your family. So generations of family members - aunts, uncles, cousins, etc- may not get to know each other because of this. And if your mom died tomorrow and left $1 million dollars to a sibling instead of some to your children, you’d be okay with that? Would they? Would they as adults?

I am at complete peace with my decision. We see other family members separate from my mother. I’ve long ago come to peace with selling out to myself and maintaining a relationship just for an inheritance 🙄

*NOT selling out on myself

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it really really weird when family cuts off other family. Invariably when I hear details, there are issues on both sides even if one person is more at fault. I hear a lot of stories of defensive language like ‘they were toxic’ ‘I need boundaries’ etc but the reality is that if the person wasn’t also contributing in some way, they wouldn’t need to be so strident and rigid. I have a family member who is likely mentally ill and has caused tons of drama, but are they cut off? No. I feel sorry for them, realize they are a highly imperfect person and I look for ways to connect that are not high conflict. If I engage with them and fight, what does that say about me? I know I can’t expect them to operate on the same emotional level as I do. And that’s ok.

They/we are connected to each other in various ways and ‘cutting them off’ would impact not only me but others. And to me, that’s selfish and unfair.

A parent telling my child they wish they never had me was the final straw

Is that good enough for you ?

One told my preteen, “I never loved your mom.” So yeah, PP will never get it. Or, she’s a narc herself.

I am not a narc but yes, your mother *said* something hurtful. I suspect she’s mentally ill/a narc and it might be compounded by aging issues. Are you so fragile that you can’t see that and rise above her and feel sorry for her? IME the people who cut off family members often do not fix their lives by doing so, they only take the extreme hypersensitivity and aggression to other relationships - you’re doing it right here in these posts with a stranger… not everyone, but many.

Whatever! She doesn’t love me, she doesn’t have to see me; no skin, right? But that also means you don’t get to influence my minor children, either. You can do or think whatever you want, it doesn’t affect me and mine.

As I suspected, the ‘protection of children’ is more about you. That’s fine, do what you want, but just eyes wide open that you are carrying forward generational trauma and rifts that may likely be carried onto generations of your family. So generations of family members - aunts, uncles, cousins, etc- may not get to know each other because of this. And if your mom died tomorrow and left $1 million dollars to a sibling instead of some to your children, you’d be okay with that? Would they? Would they as adults?

I am at complete peace with my decision. We see other family members separate from my mother. I’ve long ago come to peace with selling out to myself and maintaining a relationship just for an inheritance 🙄

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it really really weird when family cuts off other family. Invariably when I hear details, there are issues on both sides even if one person is more at fault. I hear a lot of stories of defensive language like ‘they were toxic’ ‘I need boundaries’ etc but the reality is that if the person wasn’t also contributing in some way, they wouldn’t need to be so strident and rigid. I have a family member who is likely mentally ill and has caused tons of drama, but are they cut off? No. I feel sorry for them, realize they are a highly imperfect person and I look for ways to connect that are not high conflict. If I engage with them and fight, what does that say about me? I know I can’t expect them to operate on the same emotional level as I do. And that’s ok.

They/we are connected to each other in various ways and ‘cutting them off’ would impact not only me but others. And to me, that’s selfish and unfair.

A parent telling my child they wish they never had me was the final straw

Is that good enough for you ?

One told my preteen, “I never loved your mom.” So yeah, PP will never get it. Or, she’s a narc herself.

I am not a narc but yes, your mother *said* something hurtful. I suspect she’s mentally ill/a narc and it might be compounded by aging issues. Are you so fragile that you can’t see that and rise above her and feel sorry for her? IME the people who cut off family members often do not fix their lives by doing so, they only take the extreme hypersensitivity and aggression to other relationships - you’re doing it right here in these posts with a stranger… not everyone, but many.

Whatever! She doesn’t love me, she doesn’t have to see me; no skin, right? But that also means you don’t get to influence my minor children, either. You can do or think whatever you want, it doesn’t affect me and mine.

As I suspected, the ‘protection of children’ is more about you. That’s fine, do what you want, but just eyes wide open that you are carrying forward generational trauma and rifts that may likely be carried onto generations of your family. So generations of family members - aunts, uncles, cousins, etc- may not get to know each other because of this. And if your mom died tomorrow and left $1 million dollars to a sibling instead of some to your children, you’d be okay with that? Would they? Would they as adults?

IME people like this may do hurtful or unequal things in their will as their last "gotcha." This is a terrible reason to keep someone in your life.