Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Men in their 20s rarely want to settle down or take anything seriously. So, they need to find much older men? And if the man lies or cheats or uses her, it’s her fault for not being able to read minds and know his intentions? But if she withholds sex and demands marriage…that’s also bad, apparently?

Now the economics of it all. Tradwife at 22? Stay at home? One income, IN THIS ECONOMY? This requires her to only aspire to marry rich. But then it’s her fault for being a gold digger.


One income is simply too risky.

As someone who comes from a background (Mennonite) where trad life was just "life", I have bolded what I consider to be false premises. Yes, if you are using some very online caricature of a "tradwife" then you can use almost any premise and reach almost any conclusion you want.

But from my background, and even from non-Mennonites I grew up with who had traditional values, none of the above is true. The truth, in my experience is this:
-Men in their late teens and early 20s did indeed want to settle down and get married
-Marriages are typically between people in the same age range
-Adultery is he fault of the adulterer, always
-It was expected that, although difficult to achieve, sex would wait until marriage
-You can definitely still do it on one income, but not in the beltway

Mennonites, the ones known for cousin marriage? You want to give marriage advice from the community that marries their cousins???????

You're thinking of the Amish. The Amish broke off from the Mennonites over 300 years ago.

No, I'm thinking of Mennonites.

"Mennonites, particularly in closely-knit or conservative communities, have historically practiced endogamy (marrying within the group), which has led to instances of cousin marriage, similar to other isolated rural populations. Data indicates that marriage among first and second cousins was, and in some conservative sects still is, relatively common compared to modern secular society, often driven by the small, isolated nature of the communities. "

I'll take a quote with no citation for what it's worth.

easily googleable if you felt like it. If you'd rather live in ignorance of your own religion that really doesn't affect me whatsoever.

It's just such a dumb assertion. It's like generalizing about Mormons from subsets of FLDS. Or generalizing about Jewish people from the Hasidic. If you take a narrow enough slice of any group, and add enough qualifiers, then yeah, you can get eye-catching results.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, you have to tease it out a little bit more and not caricature in the manner you do. There are really two aspects of this: one is the structural critique, the second is how you respond to the situation in which you find yourself.

On the first, it seems to me a reasonable point of view—debatable of course—is that in the aggregate the current trend of late marriage, late childbearing, many sexual partners—is, on average, less conducive to a happy life than earlier marriage and childbearing with fewer sexual partners would be. So if you are saying that this view is incomprehensible or indefensible, I strongly disagree. But, it’s a collective action problem and, as you correctly point out, there are a lot of economic incentives that led to the way things currently are. So perhaps there is nothing to be done with this observation, but I think it’s a reasonable position.

2. So then, what is to be done? Obviously there are all sorts of potentially negative scenarios of a more traditional approach, the ones you posit are of course possible negative outcomes. But, there are also many negative outcomes to the current way of doing things too, not least of which are many women who are strung along by feckless guys with no intention of ever settling down into their mid-30s or beyond. It’s a world of trade-offs, and how you weigh the relative risks depends on your priors about human nature and how the world works.

And while people get all wound around the axle about the “body count” discourse—and I agree there is a lot of negative, unrealistic, and indeed crazy discussion of this issue in places—it seems obvious to me that someone with a body count of, say, 4 very likely has a different perspective on sex and relationships than someone with a body count of 87. You can’t expect people not to notice this or take it into account in making such an important decision as whom to marry.

I actually don’t disagree with your first point, but your first point is compromised by a component of your second point, regarding the feckless men with no intention of settling down.

I am a professional woman who married in her 30s. I would have loved to get married younger, but I didn’t meet my husband until age 35. The men I met earlier were just not interested in marriage. I also knew plenty of my female peers would have loved to get married in their 20s but couldn’t find anyone suitable. It takes both genders cooperating. The only thing this points to is for every woman to pursue a man 10+ years older. Fair enough, but then you have the gap in life experience. Of course “not all men,” but a 35-years older-old man could easily promise the world to his 22-year-old girlfriend only to renege on his promises. In this case, the onus is on the 22-year-old woman to properly assess the honesty and integrity of a man with a decade plus of experience? If she doesn’t hedge her bets, I.e, withhold sex, then she notches her body count before starting all over in the pursuit of marriage, and a year or two older.

Not every woman who marries late or gets to her mid 30s with no husband is there because she “wasted her 20s partying” or something like that. Sometimes it just doesn’t work out. Long term relationships run their course, or someone gets a job in another state, or other life events happen.

That entire post you replied to is just AI slop.

PP here: it’s not. I wrote it. And it doesn’t sound like AI slop at all, your ear is miscalibrated.

As for the earlier reply, I agree, and I don’t think women are to blame for the current situation any more than men are. It’s a collective action problem defined by larger social conditions that it is hard for any individual person to opt out of.

Stop lying, AI is so easy to spot. If your actual writing is so bad it sounds like AI and uses all the key overused items as AI slop, maybe you should start reading more books and less reddit.

You have no idea what you are talking about, lol.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Men in their 20s rarely want to settle down or take anything seriously. So, they need to find much older men? And if the man lies or cheats or uses her, it’s her fault for not being able to read minds and know his intentions? But if she withholds sex and demands marriage…that’s also bad, apparently?

Now the economics of it all. Tradwife at 22? Stay at home? One income, IN THIS ECONOMY? This requires her to only aspire to marry rich. But then it’s her fault for being a gold digger.


One income is simply too risky.

As someone who comes from a background (Mennonite) where trad life was just "life", I have bolded what I consider to be false premises. Yes, if you are using some very online caricature of a "tradwife" then you can use almost any premise and reach almost any conclusion you want.

But from my background, and even from non-Mennonites I grew up with who had traditional values, none of the above is true. The truth, in my experience is this:
-Men in their late teens and early 20s did indeed want to settle down and get married
-Marriages are typically between people in the same age range
-Adultery is he fault of the adulterer, always
-It was expected that, although difficult to achieve, sex would wait until marriage
-You can definitely still do it on one income, but not in the beltway

Mennonites, the ones known for cousin marriage? You want to give marriage advice from the community that marries their cousins???????

You're thinking of the Amish. The Amish broke off from the Mennonites over 300 years ago.

No, I'm thinking of Mennonites.

"Mennonites, particularly in closely-knit or conservative communities, have historically practiced endogamy (marrying within the group), which has led to instances of cousin marriage, similar to other isolated rural populations. Data indicates that marriage among first and second cousins was, and in some conservative sects still is, relatively common compared to modern secular society, often driven by the small, isolated nature of the communities. "

I'll take a quote with no citation for what it's worth.

easily googleable if you felt like it. If you'd rather live in ignorance of your own religion that really doesn't affect me whatsoever.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I would be a "trad wife". Older Gen X, advanced degrees, stay at home mom for the last 15 years. The Great Recession ate my career field, pay scales sank through the floor, we had two little kids, and I decided to stay home with husband's urging and blessing. He makes enough to support us. I have a great life. Maybe I just don't care about money, or my ego. Our kids are teen and young adult, and are doing very well. Tradwife? It's just life, OP. People have to make a decision, and sometimes their decision isn't the same as yours. Live and let live, you know? I don't understand why a woman would have kids not to spend much time with them, and claim that the best example she is setting is to show them how to make money. I'd rather show my kids something else, I guess. I remember going to grade school events during the school day and having teachers ask in a whisper if I would be willing to look at the project of the classmate whose parents weren't there. I'll never forget the grade school girl who burst into tears as I complimented her work. She said through sobs, "I want my mom". She didn't say, "My mom can't be here because she's showing me how to make money at a job." I just said I know and I'm sure she's proud of you. What else can you say. My heart broke for her. I bet her mother never knew that happened, and assumed she was being a great example.

You're not a tradwife, you are a just a regular old SAHM.

It's essentially the same thing--both types of women are fully provided for by their husbands and they stay home and care for kids. UCM sahms will say the difference is they don't obey their husbands but the economic setup is the same and it's a very traditional one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Men in their 20s rarely want to settle down or take anything seriously. So, they need to find much older men? And if the man lies or cheats or uses her, it’s her fault for not being able to read minds and know his intentions? But if she withholds sex and demands marriage…that’s also bad, apparently?

Now the economics of it all. Tradwife at 22? Stay at home? One income, IN THIS ECONOMY? This requires her to only aspire to marry rich. But then it’s her fault for being a gold digger.


One income is simply too risky.

As someone who comes from a background (Mennonite) where trad life was just "life", I have bolded what I consider to be false premises. Yes, if you are using some very online caricature of a "tradwife" then you can use almost any premise and reach almost any conclusion you want.

But from my background, and even from non-Mennonites I grew up with who had traditional values, none of the above is true. The truth, in my experience is this:
-Men in their late teens and early 20s did indeed want to settle down and get married
-Marriages are typically between people in the same age range
-Adultery is he fault of the adulterer, always
-It was expected that, although difficult to achieve, sex would wait until marriage
-You can definitely still do it on one income, but not in the beltway

Mennonites, the ones known for cousin marriage? You want to give marriage advice from the community that marries their cousins???????

You're thinking of the Amish. The Amish broke off from the Mennonites over 300 years ago.

No, I'm thinking of Mennonites.

"Mennonites, particularly in closely-knit or conservative communities, have historically practiced endogamy (marrying within the group), which has led to instances of cousin marriage, similar to other isolated rural populations. Data indicates that marriage among first and second cousins was, and in some conservative sects still is, relatively common compared to modern secular society, often driven by the small, isolated nature of the communities. "

I'll take a quote with no citation for what it's worth.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, you have to tease it out a little bit more and not caricature in the manner you do. There are really two aspects of this: one is the structural critique, the second is how you respond to the situation in which you find yourself.

On the first, it seems to me a reasonable point of view—debatable of course—is that in the aggregate the current trend of late marriage, late childbearing, many sexual partners—is, on average, less conducive to a happy life than earlier marriage and childbearing with fewer sexual partners would be. So if you are saying that this view is incomprehensible or indefensible, I strongly disagree. But, it’s a collective action problem and, as you correctly point out, there are a lot of economic incentives that led to the way things currently are. So perhaps there is nothing to be done with this observation, but I think it’s a reasonable position.

2. So then, what is to be done? Obviously there are all sorts of potentially negative scenarios of a more traditional approach, the ones you posit are of course possible negative outcomes. But, there are also many negative outcomes to the current way of doing things too, not least of which are many women who are strung along by feckless guys with no intention of ever settling down into their mid-30s or beyond. It’s a world of trade-offs, and how you weigh the relative risks depends on your priors about human nature and how the world works.

And while people get all wound around the axle about the “body count” discourse—and I agree there is a lot of negative, unrealistic, and indeed crazy discussion of this issue in places—it seems obvious to me that someone with a body count of, say, 4 very likely has a different perspective on sex and relationships than someone with a body count of 87. You can’t expect people not to notice this or take it into account in making such an important decision as whom to marry.

I actually don’t disagree with your first point, but your first point is compromised by a component of your second point, regarding the feckless men with no intention of settling down.

I am a professional woman who married in her 30s. I would have loved to get married younger, but I didn’t meet my husband until age 35. The men I met earlier were just not interested in marriage. I also knew plenty of my female peers would have loved to get married in their 20s but couldn’t find anyone suitable. It takes both genders cooperating. The only thing this points to is for every woman to pursue a man 10+ years older. Fair enough, but then you have the gap in life experience. Of course “not all men,” but a 35-years older-old man could easily promise the world to his 22-year-old girlfriend only to renege on his promises. In this case, the onus is on the 22-year-old woman to properly assess the honesty and integrity of a man with a decade plus of experience? If she doesn’t hedge her bets, I.e, withhold sex, then she notches her body count before starting all over in the pursuit of marriage, and a year or two older.

Not every woman who marries late or gets to her mid 30s with no husband is there because she “wasted her 20s partying” or something like that. Sometimes it just doesn’t work out. Long term relationships run their course, or someone gets a job in another state, or other life events happen.

That entire post you replied to is just AI slop.

PP here: it’s not. I wrote it. And it doesn’t sound like AI slop at all, your ear is miscalibrated.

As for the earlier reply, I agree, and I don’t think women are to blame for the current situation any more than men are. It’s a collective action problem defined by larger social conditions that it is hard for any individual person to opt out of.

Stop lying, AI is so easy to spot. If your actual writing is so bad it sounds like AI and uses all the key overused items as AI slop, maybe you should start reading more books and less reddit.

Anonymous wrote:What is redpill

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I would be a "trad wife". Older Gen X, advanced degrees, stay at home mom for the last 15 years. The Great Recession ate my career field, pay scales sank through the floor, we had two little kids, and I decided to stay home with husband's urging and blessing. He makes enough to support us. I have a great life. Maybe I just don't care about money, or my ego. Our kids are teen and young adult, and are doing very well. Tradwife? It's just life, OP. People have to make a decision, and sometimes their decision isn't the same as yours. Live and let live, you know? I don't understand why a woman would have kids not to spend much time with them, and claim that the best example she is setting is to show them how to make money. I'd rather show my kids something else, I guess. I remember going to grade school events during the school day and having teachers ask in a whisper if I would be willing to look at the project of the classmate whose parents weren't there. I'll never forget the grade school girl who burst into tears as I complimented her work. She said through sobs, "I want my mom". She didn't say, "My mom can't be here because she's showing me how to make money at a job." I just said I know and I'm sure she's proud of you. What else can you say. My heart broke for her. I bet her mother never knew that happened, and assumed she was being a great example.

You're not a tradwife, you are a just a regular old SAHM.

And a b!t@h

Anonymous wrote:I am trad wife and my husband is the complete opposite of red pill. We are both pretty liberal.
He doesn’t demand that I am a housewife. It was a decision we made together. I wanted it and he was ok with that. The traditional “gender roles” come naturally to us and we just go with that.

It works for us without the need to follow some script or ideology.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I would be a "trad wife". Older Gen X, advanced degrees, stay at home mom for the last 15 years. The Great Recession ate my career field, pay scales sank through the floor, we had two little kids, and I decided to stay home with husband's urging and blessing. He makes enough to support us. I have a great life. Maybe I just don't care about money, or my ego. Our kids are teen and young adult, and are doing very well. Tradwife? It's just life, OP. People have to make a decision, and sometimes their decision isn't the same as yours. Live and let live, you know? I don't understand why a woman would have kids not to spend much time with them, and claim that the best example she is setting is to show them how to make money. I'd rather show my kids something else, I guess. I remember going to grade school events during the school day and having teachers ask in a whisper if I would be willing to look at the project of the classmate whose parents weren't there. I'll never forget the grade school girl who burst into tears as I complimented her work. She said through sobs, "I want my mom". She didn't say, "My mom can't be here because she's showing me how to make money at a job." I just said I know and I'm sure she's proud of you. What else can you say. My heart broke for her. I bet her mother never knew that happened, and assumed she was being a great example.

You're not a tradwife, you are a just a regular old SAHM.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I would be a "trad wife". Older Gen X, advanced degrees, stay at home mom for the last 15 years. The Great Recession ate my career field, pay scales sank through the floor, we had two little kids, and I decided to stay home with husband's urging and blessing. He makes enough to support us. I have a great life. Maybe I just don't care about money, or my ego. Our kids are teen and young adult, and are doing very well. Tradwife? It's just life, OP. People have to make a decision, and sometimes their decision isn't the same as yours. Live and let live, you know? I don't understand why a woman would have kids not to spend much time with them, and claim that the best example she is setting is to show them how to make money. I'd rather show my kids something else, I guess. I remember going to grade school events during the school day and having teachers ask in a whisper if I would be willing to look at the project of the classmate whose parents weren't there. I'll never forget the grade school girl who burst into tears as I complimented her work. She said through sobs, "I want my mom". She didn't say, "My mom can't be here because she's showing me how to make money at a job." I just said I know and I'm sure she's proud of you. What else can you say. My heart broke for her. I bet her mother never knew that happened, and assumed she was being a great example.

You're not a tradwife, you are a just a regular old SAHM.

For a man, the "Red Pill" lifestyle is a rigorous, self-directed program focused on maximizing his "Sexual Market Value" (SMV) and reclaiming what the movement calls "traditional masculinity".
It is often described as a "survival manual" for navigating a society that adherents believe is biased against men.

Core Lifestyle Pillars
The daily life of a "red-pilled" man typically revolves around several key areas of intense self-improvement:
Pillar Daily Lifestyle Actions
Fitness ("The Iron" Heavy weightlifting to build a muscular, "alpha" physique. This is often seen as the most critical requirement for self-respect.
Finance Aggressive focus on earning money, investing, and "stacking cash" to ensure total financial independence and high status.

Frame & Stoicism Practicing "maintaining frame"—staying emotionally detached, stoic, and never showing vulnerability or "weakness" to women.

"Game" Studying and practicing social strategies to interact with women, often using rehearsed routines to secure sexual attraction while avoiding emotional investment.

Purpose Placing personal career or life goals above relationships. The motto is often "Purpose > Women".

"Tradwives" (short for traditional wives) are a social media-based subculture of women who adopt a 1950s-style, patriarchal approach to marriage and domestic life. They voluntarily prioritize their roles as full-time homemakers and mothers, often leaving professional careers to embrace domestic duties, such as cooking from scratch, cleaning, and gardening.