Anonymous wrote:Dude do you seriously carry your 15 year old DD to the car? Lady - you’re insane. And your daughter is a good kid - you better believe I would be embarrassing the heck out of you at church if I was your kid. Do you beat her too?

Good idea. I'm pretty sure the bible says you can stone a child for this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She isn’t going to “see reason”. If you embrace that it will be easier. It can still be a family rule she doesn’t agree with, but you can’t force someone to agree.

My kid doesn’t think they should have to unload the dishwasher. Nothing I tell them will change their perspective. They still need to unload the dishwasher.

OP here, I fear I didn’t make clear how dramatic her refusal is. We physically need to carry her out the door on Sundays. It’s strange and embarrassing. She’s mostly such a well-behaved child, I just don’t understand.

Have you considered that you're in the wrong here?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We go to church every Sunday. As a family. Non-negotiable, sorry. That’s how it’s always been. When my DD 15 moves out of the house she can skip church if she’d like, she can join a monastery for all I care, but right now she lives with us and every Sunday you better believe she will be at church with us. End of discussion!

But she won’t listen to reason. She’s insisting that she’s an “atheist” and that somehow means she should be exempt from the family rule. Not how it works! She says that church makes her uncomfortable and has said that she has issues with “religion being homophobic.” Well our church isn’t, the minister’s daughter is married to a woman! But I can’t persuade her. It’s always a fight, every single week, and I’m just exhausted. How do I make my daughter understand why this is required?

This is a tough one OP. We've had a similar rule and age 14-15 is where we've run into problems.

Does she have friends at church? Is there a youth group or Sunday school class for teens? This helps a lot. I've agreed to let mine skip church services if they go to Youth group, sunday school or something else instead.

Does her dad attend church with the family?

Supposedly, Dad in the home attending church regularly is the strongest indicator of whether teens, boys and girls both, attend church.

**********

An argument that got all my kids through that tern hump was that I posed this 2 part question to them, followed by my answer after they gave their answer.

The first question was, what happens if atheism is correct, and you still participate in our family's faith traditions without a fight? I let them answer, then say that if atheism is correct, you don't lose anything by attending. What you receive is a nice weekly tradition of a couple of hours spending time with our family, some really nice holiday traditions, a moral code that is just, kind, and reasonable, and a stronger grasp than most of your peers of world history, modern western law, and current events, through your understanding of Christianity and the Bible.

After they have a second to digest that, I then ask the second half of the question which is what if the atheists are wrong and I am correct? For this question, I don't say anything else and let them stew on it. 4 kids and that question tends to move them to silence, with wheels turning in their brains.

That combination of questions makes them stop and think in a way that transcends tiktok, social media, and their peers.

4/4 and after those 2 questions, I have never again gotten pushback from my teens about attending church with the family.

Wow.

We are a family that attends church, including the majority of our teens, but if those questions worked you have done a terrible job raising children who think.

1). This kid isn’t, for whatever reason, experiencing church as a “nice weekly tradition”, or their moral code as “just, kind, and reasonable.” There are plenty of churches out there whose moral codes aren’t (note: I don’t even have to name my political opinion here, every Christian has heard things proclaimed in the name of Christ that they don’t believe or find reasonable) OP claims that her church isn’t homophobic based on the pastor’s daughter, when we know the homophonic people can have LGBTQ relatives.

2) The Bible is clear that the path to Jesus is belief, not attending church. So if someone attends church and doesn’t believe then they will have the same experience and they didn’t attend church.

What has worked for us in adolescence is exploring with our kids what is important to them, and looking for a church that takes an active stance on those issues. We did change churches, to one that takes a strong pro LGBT stance. We also talked about other ways we can show our values. Our kids do a lot of service, most of it unconnected to church.

Did it work perfectly? No. Sometimes our kids choose to sleep through church, or to schedule things during church. But being crystal clear that their faith journey is their own, and that our love and acceptance have nothing to do with where they are on that journey, and avoiding power struggles and physical abuse, has worked for us in that we have kids who feel respected, and who in turn respect our beliefs.

Anonymous wrote:I am wondering if the daughter is being abused by someone at church and has told op. And op was like “no, a man of god would never!!”

I too was wondering if something really bad happens at church given how extreme her reaction is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It wouldn't be my hill to die on. I'd let her skip.

That’s fine. It is mine.

Then you are a terrible parent. In more ways than one.

I would apologize to her, tell her you respect her decision. And ask if she would compromise by going once a month for the sake of the family tradition and spending time together. And then promise (and keep the promise) that you won’t bother her, guilt trip her, carry her (?!?) out the other days. And if she says she just will never come, then just deal with it. What you’re doing is so so bad for your relationship. She’s not 3. These are the last memories she will have of growing up in your family.

She’s gone for 14 years. You can’t let her stay home at all some Sundays? Maybe compromise she comes once a month for family time? This isn’t worth permanently destroying my relationship with my kid which is excel what you’re going to do. Whatever good you want church to do her, the way you’re approaching this is actually creating the exact opposite. And no this is not comparable to “you need to load the dishwasher to help care for the household” which IS reason. “You need to go participate in the thing I believe in” is not reason.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We go to church every Sunday. As a family. Non-negotiable, sorry. That’s how it’s always been. When my DD 15 moves out of the house she can skip church if she’d like, she can join a monastery for all I care, but right now she lives with us and every Sunday you better believe she will be at church with us. End of discussion!

But she won’t listen to reason. She’s insisting that she’s an “atheist” and that somehow means she should be exempt from the family rule. Not how it works! She says that church makes her uncomfortable and has said that she has issues with “religion being homophobic.” Well our church isn’t, the minister’s daughter is married to a woman! But I can’t persuade her. It’s always a fight, every single week, and I’m just exhausted. How do I make my daughter understand why this is required?

Team mom


Hang in there mama!

I hope the daughter severs ties with her mom as soon as she is 18

Anonymous wrote:Nothing annoys me more than parents who force religion with their kids. That’s a cult. Sorry

+1

Religions are cults. Whose god or gods is real. Whose book is real? Whose “laws”’are real?

None

You are free to believe in anything you want. Forcing it on others as fact is embarrassing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We go to church every Sunday. As a family. Non-negotiable, sorry. That’s how it’s always been. When my DD 15 moves out of the house she can skip church if she’d like, she can join a monastery for all I care, but right now she lives with us and every Sunday you better believe she will be at church with us. End of discussion!

But she won’t listen to reason. She’s insisting that she’s an “atheist” and that somehow means she should be exempt from the family rule. Not how it works! She says that church makes her uncomfortable and has said that she has issues with “religion being homophobic.” Well our church isn’t, the minister’s daughter is married to a woman! But I can’t persuade her. It’s always a fight, every single week, and I’m just exhausted. How do I make my daughter understand why this is required?

This is a tough one OP. We've had a similar rule and age 14-15 is where we've run into problems.

Does she have friends at church? Is there a youth group or Sunday school class for teens? This helps a lot. I've agreed to let mine skip church services if they go to Youth group, sunday school or something else instead.

Does her dad attend church with the family?

Supposedly, Dad in the home attending church regularly is the strongest indicator of whether teens, boys and girls both, attend church.

**********

An argument that got all my kids through that tern hump was that I posed this 2 part question to them, followed by my answer after they gave their answer.

The first question was, what happens if atheism is correct, and you still participate in our family's faith traditions without a fight? I let them answer, then say that if atheism is correct, you don't lose anything by attending. What you receive is a nice weekly tradition of a couple of hours spending time with our family, some really nice holiday traditions, a moral code that is just, kind, and reasonable, and a stronger grasp than most of your peers of world history, modern western law, and current events, through your understanding of Christianity and the Bible.

After they have a second to digest that, I then ask the second half of the question which is what if the atheists are wrong and I am correct? For this question, I don't say anything else and let them stew on it. 4 kids and that question tends to move them to silence, with wheels turning in their brains.

That combination of questions makes them stop and think in a way that transcends tiktok, social media, and their peers.

4/4 and after those 2 questions, I have never again gotten pushback from my teens about attending church with the family.

What you lose is sleep. Afternoon services would be an easier sell to teens.

Bribe her!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She isn’t going to “see reason”. If you embrace that it will be easier. It can still be a family rule she doesn’t agree with, but you can’t force someone to agree.

My kid doesn’t think they should have to unload the dishwasher. Nothing I tell them will change their perspective. They still need to unload the dishwasher.

OP here, I fear I didn’t make clear how dramatic her refusal is. We physically need to carry her out the door on Sundays. It’s strange and embarrassing. She’s mostly such a well-behaved child, I just don’t understand.

Have you tried a different church?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We go to church every Sunday. As a family. Non-negotiable, sorry. That’s how it’s always been. When my DD 15 moves out of the house she can skip church if she’d like, she can join a monastery for all I care, but right now she lives with us and every Sunday you better believe she will be at church with us. End of discussion!

But she won’t listen to reason. She’s insisting that she’s an “atheist” and that somehow means she should be exempt from the family rule. Not how it works! She says that church makes her uncomfortable and has said that she has issues with “religion being homophobic.” Well our church isn’t, the minister’s daughter is married to a woman! But I can’t persuade her. It’s always a fight, every single week, and I’m just exhausted. How do I make my daughter understand why this is required?

This is a tough one OP. We've had a similar rule and age 14-15 is where we've run into problems.

Does she have friends at church? Is there a youth group or Sunday school class for teens? This helps a lot. I've agreed to let mine skip church services if they go to Youth group, sunday school or something else instead.

Does her dad attend church with the family?

Supposedly, Dad in the home attending church regularly is the strongest indicator of whether teens, boys and girls both, attend church.

**********

An argument that got all my kids through that tern hump was that I posed this 2 part question to them, followed by my answer after they gave their answer.

The first question was, what happens if atheism is correct, and you still participate in our family's faith traditions without a fight? I let them answer, then say that if atheism is correct, you don't lose anything by attending. What you receive is a nice weekly tradition of a couple of hours spending time with our family, some really nice holiday traditions, a moral code that is just, kind, and reasonable, and a stronger grasp than most of your peers of world history, modern western law, and current events, through your understanding of Christianity and the Bible.

After they have a second to digest that, I then ask the second half of the question which is what if the atheists are wrong and I am correct? For this question, I don't say anything else and let them stew on it. 4 kids and that question tends to move them to silence, with wheels turning in their brains.

That combination of questions makes them stop and think in a way that transcends tiktok, social media, and their peers.

4/4 and after those 2 questions, I have never again gotten pushback from my teens about attending church with the family.

Anonymous wrote:We go to church every Sunday. As a family. Non-negotiable, sorry. That’s how it’s always been. When my DD 15 moves out of the house she can skip church if she’d like, she can join a monastery for all I care, but right now she lives with us and every Sunday you better believe she will be at church with us. End of discussion!

But she won’t listen to reason. She’s insisting that she’s an “atheist” and that somehow means she should be exempt from the family rule. Not how it works! She says that church makes her uncomfortable and has said that she has issues with “religion being homophobic.” Well our church isn’t, the minister’s daughter is married to a woman! But I can’t persuade her. It’s always a fight, every single week, and I’m just exhausted. How do I make my daughter understand why this is required?

Team mom


Hang in there mama!

Dude do you seriously carry your 15 year old DD to the car? Lady - you’re insane. And your daughter is a good kid - you better believe I would be embarrassing the heck out of you at church if I was your kid. Do you beat her too?