Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

"Not every organization is open to every kid, let's find something that fits you." Is not a hard conversation. Lots of kids can't do activities for all sorts of reasons.

Is your kid 5? Because that is not going to be enough of an answer for an older or more persistent kid.

An older kid absolutely should understand not every club is for them.

An older kid will ask “why is it OK for there to be an all-girls club? Why can’t I join girl scouts and sell cookies too? Why can’t I wear a Boys Rule shirt?”

Actually, boys have NEVER been excluded from Girl Scouts. They just don't want to join. As a former GS participant and leader, I've always been annoyed that people have been so focused on getting girls into Boy Scouts (now rebranded just Scouts) because of the perception that the boys get to do cool outdoorsy stuff while the girls sit inside and do crafts. It's 100% based on troop and leader interested and initiative, but the assumption is just that the boys' stuff is cooler.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

Start a club, organization for the boys in your school. Theee was no magic fairy that addressed the need for the girls to get leadership and running educataion....it was likely a mom or dad that started it.

That was then and this is now. I think we all know that the cultural infrastructure (grants, leadership organizations, institutional buy-in) is heavily tilted to girls’ programs. It’s an open question whether all schools would even allow or support a boys-only club.

So, you haven't tried but you've already given up and our willing to tell those of us who have actually done the work of starting clubs that we wouldn't be supportive?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

Start a club, organization for the boys in your school. Theee was no magic fairy that addressed the need for the girls to get leadership and running educataion....it was likely a mom or dad that started it.

That was then and this is now. I think we all know that the cultural infrastructure (grants, leadership organizations, institutional buy-in) is heavily tilted to girls’ programs. It’s an open question whether all schools would even allow or support a boys-only club.

So, you haven't tried but you've already given up and our willing to tell those of us who have actually done the work of starting clubs that we wouldn't be supportive?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

"Not every organization is open to every kid, let's find something that fits you." Is not a hard conversation. Lots of kids can't do activities for all sorts of reasons.

Is your kid 5? Because that is not going to be enough of an answer for an older or more persistent kid.

An older kid absolutely should understand not every club is for them.

An older kid will ask “why is it OK for there to be an all-girls club? Why can’t I join girl scouts and sell cookies too? Why can’t I wear a Boys Rule shirt?”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

Start a club, organization for the boys in your school. Theee was no magic fairy that addressed the need for the girls to get leadership and running educataion....it was likely a mom or dad that started it.

That was then and this is now. I think we all know that the cultural infrastructure (grants, leadership organizations, institutional buy-in) is heavily tilted to girls’ programs. It’s an open question whether all schools would even allow or support a boys-only club.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

"Not every organization is open to every kid, let's find something that fits you." Is not a hard conversation. Lots of kids can't do activities for all sorts of reasons.

Is your kid 5? Because that is not going to be enough of an answer for an older or more persistent kid.

An older kid absolutely should understand not every club is for them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. And use the opportunity to help him understand the motivation behind programs like this for girls. If he is elementary age, he can understand it.

Sort of like Cub Scouts used to be just for boys, until parents of girls ruined that?

Cub scouts let girls in because they were in financial trouble and needed a way to boost membership. And no, it hasn't ruined it for the boys at all. -Mom of a (boy) Cub scout.

Of course it has. The entire premise of the organization changed. Just because you have told your son that it’s good and normal doesn’t mean that it is.

Literally none of the Scout laws have changed. And thinking that it's not "good and normal" because there were girls at Pinewood Derby today is pretty bonkers.

So why can’t boys be at GOTR then? The girls (and boys) can still get exercise and learn leadership skills. Just like by allowing girls into cub scouts, the boys can still race pinewood derby cars.

You can’t have it both ways and roll your eyes and say of course it’s fine to allow girls to join a boys only organization, and simultaneously insist boys can’t join a girls only organization.

Last time I checked, girls could do both Girl Scouts and cub scouts, but boys couldn’t do Girl Scouts. So the message here is that girls can do anything and boys cannot. Look at the best students, the leaders, the art competition winners, the class presidents in your child’s elementary school. Then tell me if it’s girls or boys who are losing their way and losing their sense of belonging right now.

Oh and check the suspension rate for girls vs boys while you’re at it.

Look, I'm all for more appropriate developmental approaches to kids in schools. I've worked to improve my kid's school. But again none of this explains why girls in my son's Cub Scout troop is harmful or not normal, as was claimed previously.

Boy Scouts went coed to survive after the organization massively screwed up with a child abuse scandal (and they have taken steps, as a volunteer I eent through a bunch of training and rules to prevent abuse situation). Girls didn't force their way in or take something away from the boys.

There are also boys running programs, as shown by a quick Google. Let me Run and Boys Gotta Run for two examples.

But boys see that those organizations don’t exist and it is a bit much to expect parents to immediately start one as soon as the boy notices it. Yes we do need to create opportunities for boys but you are not being realistic if you think the same kind of support exists as for girls organizations - in terms of grants, organizing help, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if many PTAs and schools passively or even actively prevent a boys club from getting off the ground.

How do you think the girls organizations got started? Genuinely.

And I know starting a club isn't easy because I've done it. But I did do it. Demanding there's instantly a club for you without putting any work in so... girls stuff bad? You're tearing down and refusing to build. Do better.

No you “do better.” because we all know that you would be the PTA mom who would withhold the funding for an organization that centers boys.

I like that you have to make up facts to justify your point. Because I did actually start a club that benefits boys and went and got outside funding. But that somehow means I'd deny a boys group.

Again, you want a boy's club, go found one. Find an activity for your kid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

"Not every organization is open to every kid, let's find something that fits you." Is not a hard conversation. Lots of kids can't do activities for all sorts of reasons.

Is your kid 5? Because that is not going to be enough of an answer for an older or more persistent kid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

Start a club, organization for the boys in your school. Theee was no magic fairy that addressed the need for the girls to get leadership and running educataion....it was likely a mom or dad that started it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. And use the opportunity to help him understand the motivation behind programs like this for girls. If he is elementary age, he can understand it.

Sort of like Cub Scouts used to be just for boys, until parents of girls ruined that?

Cub scouts let girls in because they were in financial trouble and needed a way to boost membership. And no, it hasn't ruined it for the boys at all. -Mom of a (boy) Cub scout.

Of course it has. The entire premise of the organization changed. Just because you have told your son that it’s good and normal doesn’t mean that it is.

Literally none of the Scout laws have changed. And thinking that it's not "good and normal" because there were girls at Pinewood Derby today is pretty bonkers.

So why can’t boys be at GOTR then? The girls (and boys) can still get exercise and learn leadership skills. Just like by allowing girls into cub scouts, the boys can still race pinewood derby cars.

You can’t have it both ways and roll your eyes and say of course it’s fine to allow girls to join a boys only organization, and simultaneously insist boys can’t join a girls only organization.

Last time I checked, girls could do both Girl Scouts and cub scouts, but boys couldn’t do Girl Scouts. So the message here is that girls can do anything and boys cannot. Look at the best students, the leaders, the art competition winners, the class presidents in your child’s elementary school. Then tell me if it’s girls or boys who are losing their way and losing their sense of belonging right now.

Oh and check the suspension rate for girls vs boys while you’re at it.

Look, I'm all for more appropriate developmental approaches to kids in schools. I've worked to improve my kid's school. But again none of this explains why girls in my son's Cub Scout troop is harmful or not normal, as was claimed previously.

Boy Scouts went coed to survive after the organization massively screwed up with a child abuse scandal (and they have taken steps, as a volunteer I eent through a bunch of training and rules to prevent abuse situation). Girls didn't force their way in or take something away from the boys.

There are also boys running programs, as shown by a quick Google. Let me Run and Boys Gotta Run for two examples.

But boys see that those organizations don’t exist and it is a bit much to expect parents to immediately start one as soon as the boy notices it. Yes we do need to create opportunities for boys but you are not being realistic if you think the same kind of support exists as for girls organizations - in terms of grants, organizing help, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if many PTAs and schools passively or even actively prevent a boys club from getting off the ground.

How do you think the girls organizations got started? Genuinely.

And I know starting a club isn't easy because I've done it. But I did do it. Demanding there's instantly a club for you without putting any work in so... girls stuff bad? You're tearing down and refusing to build. Do better.

No you “do better.” because we all know that you would be the PTA mom who would withhold the funding for an organization that centers boys.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

"Not every organization is open to every kid, let's find something that fits you." Is not a hard conversation. Lots of kids can't do activities for all sorts of reasons.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. And use the opportunity to help him understand the motivation behind programs like this for girls. If he is elementary age, he can understand it.

Sort of like Cub Scouts used to be just for boys, until parents of girls ruined that?

Cub scouts let girls in because they were in financial trouble and needed a way to boost membership. And no, it hasn't ruined it for the boys at all. -Mom of a (boy) Cub scout.

Of course it has. The entire premise of the organization changed. Just because you have told your son that it’s good and normal doesn’t mean that it is.

Literally none of the Scout laws have changed. And thinking that it's not "good and normal" because there were girls at Pinewood Derby today is pretty bonkers.

So why can’t boys be at GOTR then? The girls (and boys) can still get exercise and learn leadership skills. Just like by allowing girls into cub scouts, the boys can still race pinewood derby cars.

You can’t have it both ways and roll your eyes and say of course it’s fine to allow girls to join a boys only organization, and simultaneously insist boys can’t join a girls only organization.

Last time I checked, girls could do both Girl Scouts and cub scouts, but boys couldn’t do Girl Scouts. So the message here is that girls can do anything and boys cannot. Look at the best students, the leaders, the art competition winners, the class presidents in your child’s elementary school. Then tell me if it’s girls or boys who are losing their way and losing their sense of belonging right now.

Oh and check the suspension rate for girls vs boys while you’re at it.

Look, I'm all for more appropriate developmental approaches to kids in schools. I've worked to improve my kid's school. But again none of this explains why girls in my son's Cub Scout troop is harmful or not normal, as was claimed previously.

Boy Scouts went coed to survive after the organization massively screwed up with a child abuse scandal (and they have taken steps, as a volunteer I eent through a bunch of training and rules to prevent abuse situation). Girls didn't force their way in or take something away from the boys.

There are also boys running programs, as shown by a quick Google. Let me Run and Boys Gotta Run for two examples.

But boys see that those organizations don’t exist and it is a bit much to expect parents to immediately start one as soon as the boy notices it. Yes we do need to create opportunities for boys but you are not being realistic if you think the same kind of support exists as for girls organizations - in terms of grants, organizing help, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if many PTAs and schools passively or even actively prevent a boys club from getting off the ground.

How do you think the girls organizations got started? Genuinely.

And I know starting a club isn't easy because I've done it. But I did do it. Demanding there's instantly a club for you without putting any work in so... girls stuff bad? You're tearing down and refusing to build. Do better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

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Anonymous wrote:No. And use the opportunity to help him understand the motivation behind programs like this for girls. If he is elementary age, he can understand it.

Sort of like Cub Scouts used to be just for boys, until parents of girls ruined that?

Cub scouts let girls in because they were in financial trouble and needed a way to boost membership. And no, it hasn't ruined it for the boys at all. -Mom of a (boy) Cub scout.

Of course it has. The entire premise of the organization changed. Just because you have told your son that it’s good and normal doesn’t mean that it is.

Literally none of the Scout laws have changed. And thinking that it's not "good and normal" because there were girls at Pinewood Derby today is pretty bonkers.

So why can’t boys be at GOTR then? The girls (and boys) can still get exercise and learn leadership skills. Just like by allowing girls into cub scouts, the boys can still race pinewood derby cars.

You can’t have it both ways and roll your eyes and say of course it’s fine to allow girls to join a boys only organization, and simultaneously insist boys can’t join a girls only organization.

Last time I checked, girls could do both Girl Scouts and cub scouts, but boys couldn’t do Girl Scouts. So the message here is that girls can do anything and boys cannot. Look at the best students, the leaders, the art competition winners, the class presidents in your child’s elementary school. Then tell me if it’s girls or boys who are losing their way and losing their sense of belonging right now.

Oh and check the suspension rate for girls vs boys while you’re at it.

Look, I'm all for more appropriate developmental approaches to kids in schools. I've worked to improve my kid's school. But again none of this explains why girls in my son's Cub Scout troop is harmful or not normal, as was claimed previously.

Boy Scouts went coed to survive after the organization massively screwed up with a child abuse scandal (and they have taken steps, as a volunteer I eent through a bunch of training and rules to prevent abuse situation). Girls didn't force their way in or take something away from the boys.

There are also boys running programs, as shown by a quick Google. Let me Run and Boys Gotta Run for two examples.

But boys see that those organizations don’t exist and it is a bit much to expect parents to immediately start one as soon as the boy notices it. Yes we do need to create opportunities for boys but you are not being realistic if you think the same kind of support exists as for girls organizations - in terms of grants, organizing help, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if many PTAs and schools passively or even actively prevent a boys club from getting off the ground.