Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6:38 again, and it is not a financial decision. He has a well funded 529 and is currently in private school. Let that blow your mind, OP. Some pick this path because they want to, not because they have to. We are proud of him.

Your effusive support for his decision to attend trade school makes me think you might be proud of him but you aren't really that proud of him going to trade school. What kind of trade? And by private school do you mean a local Catholic school?

I think it's just really hard for you to understand we give our kids an experience that does not have a ROI just because.

I mean, how many 2nd homes can you really have.

Brother went to trade school and the answer for him is 5. He has 5 homes. Each worth over a million. He went to trade school, worked hard for a guy who retired and sold him (very cheaply) the company. He built it from scratch and wanted to see his employees were taken care of and trusted my brother with everything.

Investment properties or homes? Having 5 homes means a lot of travel to be in those homes.

Unfortunately, I can't find the article I read (the specifics escape me). But, there was a study that showed that a European town that had a University hundreds to a thousand years ago but that no longer exists still has a more educated population with a higher standard of living today than many other towns that never had a University. The effects of education are long lasting.

Ok troll op.

Anonymous wrote:Once again, the idea that one would attend college to be educated, to learn to think and reason and broaden their mind, is lost on some people.

I have a BA, MBA and JD. I didn't learn that much in these schools - Almost all the (useful) knowledge I have gained I would say I had learn on my own. Colleges are useless except for credentialing.

Russian or Chinese trying to influence DCUM with a barely coherent AI rant.
The trades are great for many. However, for those that like to spit out that a 23 year old plumber makes more than a 23 year old recent grad, they are forgetting that the 33 year old plumber has maxed out his earning potential while the 33 year old college grad is not only making the same or more AND still climbing the ladder with a large potential to earn much more than the plumber. That’s true ROI. Yes, AI is having an impact on lower level recent grad jobs. But if the trades get flooded, the plumbers and electricians won’t make more than minimum either since there would be too many of them.
I have 4 sons. DH and I are college educated. We saved enough to afford each child an undergraduate degree from in state public. We give advice and guidance but let them make the decisions on what to do with the funds we saved.
The oldest got a BA in philosophy. We tried to convince him to pick a more useful degree… but we had to let him make his own mistakes. He graduated, was a bartender loving the tips, got a personal trainer certificate and did that for a few years… met the love of his life who is a nurse and realized he needed to grow up and have a career. He decided to go back to school to become a nurse. We did not pay for that degree, so he went in debt. He is a nurse at Johns Hopkins. He doesn’t make a ton of money, but it is a needed field, and he will never lack in opportunities. (TBH, when he went back to school, we encouraged looking at physical therapy as it aligned with his interests, but he did not want to be in school that long)
The second oldest went the Business admin route. Again, we paid for his in state public college, so no debt. He’s a project manager at a construction company where he worked during the summers. At 27 years old, he’s making $150k easy. Not a millionaire, but not a bad life either.
The third is in college – again, in state public college. Going into a science field that he has loved since he was a kid. He knew by HS that he was going to follow his interest. Has a summer internship. Starting salary in his field is $60k-$75k with a lot of future opportunities for career growth. He decided on a commuter school, so the money we saved that would have been used for housing is instead going to be a little nest egg for when he graduates.
Youngest still in HS. Like many his age, he does not know what he wants to be when he grows up. Like the other 3, we will let him make his own path. If he wants to go into a trade, we will support him but will ensure he understands the salary cap. Being the youngest, he watched his oldest brother struggle initially in young adulthood since picking a useless degree and understands his brother went into debt due to poor education choices and knows my DH and I encouraged a different route. I imagine he will pick a science or technology field of study.
All the people that complain about the poor recent grad that got a degree in education but has $300k in student loans is missing the obvious. If a student picks a field without high paying career options, they need to pick their college carefully. Why go to a private SLAC and pay $300k to be a teacher? Or the stories about recent college grads not being able to “find” jobs. It’s because 1. They decided to take it easy and not pursue an in-demand career field or 2. Didn’t pursue internships or 3. They are unwilling to go where the jobs are.
I’ve interviewed several recent grads. They always ask about telework. It’s a turnoff for a recent grad with no industry experience to want to work from home. If it’s something a dummy can do from anywhere, RPA/AI is going to do it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to stop looking at a degree as an automatic "upward mobility" button and start looking at it as a high-risk capital allocation. The data is clear. we have a massive surplus of low-value degrees and a labor market that is already starting to discount them. Unless your child is attending a top-tier target school where the institutional prestige acts as a hedge against mediocrity, they are likely walking into an underemployment trap. Johnny from State U is graduating with six-figure debt into a world that doesn't need another generalist with a "Business Administration" degree. We’ve flooded the market with credentials, and in doing so, we've rendered the mid-tier degree effectively worthless for anything other than basic administrative work. but no problem….at least they recorded their fair share of TikTok dances in their SEC sororities….
The "dumbification" of American higher ed is the quiet crisis no one on this board wants to admit. To keep the tuition checks flowing, universities have traded academic rigor for "student satisfaction" andt grade inflation. We are producing a workforce that can follow a rubric but lacks the cognitive stamina for first-principles thinking or problem-solving. While parents are busy comparing "Little Ivies," their kids are losing the ability to synthesize complex information without a digital crutch. We’ve turned college into a four-year delay of adulthood where students learn to navigate bureaucracy instead of mastering a competitive skill.
If you think the ROI is bad now, calculate the impact of AI over the next four years. If your kid is a freshman today, they will enter a 2030 job market where agentic AI has already cannibalized the majority of entry-level white-collar tasks. The "junior analyst" or "entry-level coordinator" roles that used to be the traditional starting point for college grads are being automated out of existence. We are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to train kids for roles that a $20 monthly subscription will do better and faster by the time they graduate. If your child isn't in the top 5% of their field or pursuing a specialized technical trade, you aren't buying them a future…… you're buying them a very expensive seat at a table that is being removed from the room….

Anyway…..keep it up….

No, Johnny from "Big State U" with a degree in Business Administration is going to be a Surgery Scheduler at a large hospital in the suburbs, where he'll make $60,000 a year and be able to afford a comfortable lifestyle. Hanging drywall isn't as well paying a job as you think it is.

The people hanging drywall weren't straddling the line between higher-education and trade school - they got the gig they could find. And 60k/yr isn't going to rate a comfortable lifestyle, even in the suburbs.

I know more than a few tradesmen who can afford to send their children full-pay to any of the 100k/yr privates, but they're the exceptions rather than the norm, and even then only one of them is a trade-school graduate (plumber) - all of the others have four-year degrees. The kids who can thrive in the trades are those who show the characteristics of future business owners - which is not everyone, regardless of intelligence, work ethic or drive. An average hardworking, employee tradesman is going to have a far tougher road ahead than a mid-tier professional with a degree. Most tradespeople will enjoy few of the benefits professionals take for granted, rarely receiving employee provided health care and retirement benefits, while having less job security. (There are exceptions, of course, particularly in the unions, but they make up a thin sliver of the demographic).

The trades can be great for quite a few people, but they're not an answer for many.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6:38 again, and it is not a financial decision. He has a well funded 529 and is currently in private school. Let that blow your mind, OP. Some pick this path because they want to, not because they have to. We are proud of him.

Your effusive support for his decision to attend trade school makes me think you might be proud of him but you aren't really that proud of him going to trade school. What kind of trade? And by private school do you mean a local Catholic school?

I think it's just really hard for you to understand we give our kids an experience that does not have a ROI just because.

I mean, how many 2nd homes can you really have.

In trade school?

One. Because any home after a second home is . . . not a second home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to stop looking at a degree as an automatic "upward mobility" button and start looking at it as a high-risk capital allocation. The data is clear. we have a massive surplus of low-value degrees and a labor market that is already starting to discount them. Unless your child is attending a top-tier target school where the institutional prestige acts as a hedge against mediocrity, they are likely walking into an underemployment trap. Johnny from State U is graduating with six-figure debt into a world that doesn't need another generalist with a "Business Administration" degree. We’ve flooded the market with credentials, and in doing so, we've rendered the mid-tier degree effectively worthless for anything other than basic administrative work. but no problem….at least they recorded their fair share of TikTok dances in their SEC sororities….
The "dumbification" of American higher ed is the quiet crisis no one on this board wants to admit. To keep the tuition checks flowing, universities have traded academic rigor for "student satisfaction" andt grade inflation. We are producing a workforce that can follow a rubric but lacks the cognitive stamina for first-principles thinking or problem-solving. While parents are busy comparing "Little Ivies," their kids are losing the ability to synthesize complex information without a digital crutch. We’ve turned college into a four-year delay of adulthood where students learn to navigate bureaucracy instead of mastering a competitive skill.
If you think the ROI is bad now, calculate the impact of AI over the next four years. If your kid is a freshman today, they will enter a 2030 job market where agentic AI has already cannibalized the majority of entry-level white-collar tasks. The "junior analyst" or "entry-level coordinator" roles that used to be the traditional starting point for college grads are being automated out of existence. We are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to train kids for roles that a $20 monthly subscription will do better and faster by the time they graduate. If your child isn't in the top 5% of their field or pursuing a specialized technical trade, you aren't buying them a future…… you're buying them a very expensive seat at a table that is being removed from the room….

Anyway…..keep it up….

If you rearrange DCUM it spells dumb.

Holy mother of stupid posts. We export millions of jobs to Asia because our politicians have sold American kids out. Plenty of jobs requiring degrees/higher level training.

no, it doesn't.

are you DUMB, or is it DUMC?

Anonymous wrote:State U shouldn't result in that much debt. And we all need a well educated population! Then kids can do nursing or other additional education if they want. Even starting your own business people benefit from financial education and economics etc etc.

A well educated population should come from K-12!! We are failing our kids by not demanding this.

Learn to use paragraph breaks. You don't need to go to college to do that. Who has time to read that wall of ramble?

Anonymous wrote:"Half of DCUM kids shouldn't go to college".

Yes, ALL of YOUR kids shouldn't go to college
NONE of MY kids shouldn't go to college. On average that makes half.

Exactly. My DS15 has bought the internet propaganda about how you shouldn’t go to college, waste of time and money, etc. But does he think it applies to him, a 3.9/4.1 student? Of course not. He personally is destined for college. It’s other people who shouldn’t go.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to stop looking at a degree as an automatic "upward mobility" button and start looking at it as a high-risk capital allocation. The data is clear. we have a massive surplus of low-value degrees and a labor market that is already starting to discount them. Unless your child is attending a top-tier target school where the institutional prestige acts as a hedge against mediocrity, they are likely walking into an underemployment trap. Johnny from State U is graduating with six-figure debt into a world that doesn't need another generalist with a "Business Administration" degree. We’ve flooded the market with credentials, and in doing so, we've rendered the mid-tier degree effectively worthless for anything other than basic administrative work. but no problem….at least they recorded their fair share of TikTok dances in their SEC sororities….
The "dumbification" of American higher ed is the quiet crisis no one on this board wants to admit. To keep the tuition checks flowing, universities have traded academic rigor for "student satisfaction" andt grade inflation. We are producing a workforce that can follow a rubric but lacks the cognitive stamina for first-principles thinking or problem-solving. While parents are busy comparing "Little Ivies," their kids are losing the ability to synthesize complex information without a digital crutch. We’ve turned college into a four-year delay of adulthood where students learn to navigate bureaucracy instead of mastering a competitive skill.
If you think the ROI is bad now, calculate the impact of AI over the next four years. If your kid is a freshman today, they will enter a 2030 job market where agentic AI has already cannibalized the majority of entry-level white-collar tasks. The "junior analyst" or "entry-level coordinator" roles that used to be the traditional starting point for college grads are being automated out of existence. We are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to train kids for roles that a $20 monthly subscription will do better and faster by the time they graduate. If your child isn't in the top 5% of their field or pursuing a specialized technical trade, you aren't buying them a future…… you're buying them a very expensive seat at a table that is being removed from the room….

Anyway…..keep it up….

My husband went to nothing but state universities. At 40, he’s on his second C-suite job, as Chief Revenue Officer.

I went to private, top-tier universities, and he makes many times more money than I do.

Same for me except I recognize the world has changed! My parents advice didn’t apply to me. Similarly your advice doesn’t apply to your kids

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like college is necessary for those going on to medical school.

Medical school is gone. What do you not understand about the war on Science?

Oh?! People of the future won’t get sick. How does that happen in the war in science. Enquiring minds want to know.

I have to agree that DCUM is not your target audience at all.
I'm an immigrant who definitely wants her kids to go to college, but I'm not taking out loans. We are going the cheaper route: one year's worth of credits transferred to CC and then in-state school.
DC wanted to go to college and also wanted to work at the same time. Haven't even touched the 529 yet.
I know few parents who got their kids into debt. I asked the kids whose idea the degree in political science from GT was, and both said that their parents. None of the parents went to college.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to stop looking at a degree as an automatic "upward mobility" button and start looking at it as a high-risk capital allocation. The data is clear. we have a massive surplus of low-value degrees and a labor market that is already starting to discount them. Unless your child is attending a top-tier target school where the institutional prestige acts as a hedge against mediocrity, they are likely walking into an underemployment trap. Johnny from State U is graduating with six-figure debt into a world that doesn't need another generalist with a "Business Administration" degree. We’ve flooded the market with credentials, and in doing so, we've rendered the mid-tier degree effectively worthless for anything other than basic administrative work. but no problem….at least they recorded their fair share of TikTok dances in their SEC sororities….
The "dumbification" of American higher ed is the quiet crisis no one on this board wants to admit. To keep the tuition checks flowing, universities have traded academic rigor for "student satisfaction" andt grade inflation. We are producing a workforce that can follow a rubric but lacks the cognitive stamina for first-principles thinking or problem-solving. While parents are busy comparing "Little Ivies," their kids are losing the ability to synthesize complex information without a digital crutch. We’ve turned college into a four-year delay of adulthood where students learn to navigate bureaucracy instead of mastering a competitive skill.
If you think the ROI is bad now, calculate the impact of AI over the next four years. If your kid is a freshman today, they will enter a 2030 job market where agentic AI has already cannibalized the majority of entry-level white-collar tasks. The "junior analyst" or "entry-level coordinator" roles that used to be the traditional starting point for college grads are being automated out of existence. We are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to train kids for roles that a $20 monthly subscription will do better and faster by the time they graduate. If your child isn't in the top 5% of their field or pursuing a specialized technical trade, you aren't buying them a future…… you're buying them a very expensive seat at a table that is being removed from the room….

Anyway…..keep it up….

Getting better educated has far more value than this narrow "ROI" you're myopically focused on, OP. You only look at the tangible but the intangibilities are worth far more, IMO.

Investment can mean intangibles. And who says they don’t learn this by adulting earlier than those who waste time in college? What a stupid assumption.