Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contact your school administration or legal services office if there is a law school there. I believe that rumor is false, and they do not have time to randomly go door to door on a college campus. They are looking for criminals, high-risk/violent individuals, warrants, and gang members, not the average college student in an off-campus apartment. Your child should comply as instructed, just as he would with any law enforcement officer if they happen to stop him and request identification. It's straightforward and basic when encountering ICE or a police officer.

They are disappearing people with no criminal record. They are detaining US citizens.

You do not have to speak to ICE or answer their questions. You can assert your right to remain silent and request a lawyer. You can decline their request to search you or your vehicle. ICE is not allowed into private spaces without a judicial warrant.

OP, here are resources from the Minnesota ACLU:

https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/what-if-im-stopped-police-or-ice/
https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-college-students/

While technically correct, this generally terrible advice from a practical perspective.

If OP’s child is a citizen, s/he should politely answer ICE’s questions and carry/provide proof of citizenship if requested.

99% chance that will end the interaction safely and with no further action.

From a practical perspective, compromising our rights by collaborating with law enforcement beyond what’s required is what created the unaccountable secret police we are dealing with today.

We change this by understanding and demanding our rights.

100%

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contact your school administration or legal services office if there is a law school there. I believe that rumor is false, and they do not have time to randomly go door to door on a college campus. They are looking for criminals, high-risk/violent individuals, warrants, and gang members, not the average college student in an off-campus apartment. Your child should comply as instructed, just as he would with any law enforcement officer if they happen to stop him and request identification. It's straightforward and basic when encountering ICE or a police officer.

They are disappearing people with no criminal record. They are detaining US citizens.

You do not have to speak to ICE or answer their questions. You can assert your right to remain silent and request a lawyer. You can decline their request to search you or your vehicle. ICE is not allowed into private spaces without a judicial warrant.

OP, here are resources from the Minnesota ACLU:

https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/what-if-im-stopped-police-or-ice/
https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-college-students/

While technically correct, this generally terrible advice from a practical perspective.

If OP’s child is a citizen, s/he should politely answer ICE’s questions and carry/provide proof of citizenship if requested.

99% chance that will end the interaction safely and with no further action.

From a practical perspective, compromising our rights by collaborating with law enforcement beyond what’s required is what created the unaccountable secret police we are dealing with today.

We change this by understanding and demanding our rights.

1. You want to take a stand? Go for it. But if OP wants to keep their kid safe and out of detention? Follow my advice.

2. Separately, I think your argument is flimsy. I’d argue that failing to support the enforcement of laws is what created today’s situation—by excusing the Jan 6 rioters and Trump on the one hand, and by not enforcing our immigration laws on the other.

You do you. But I think your approach is neither safe at an individual level nor productive at the societal level.

I agree that everyone has to assess their personal risk.

But it is undeniable that giving up our rights a little bit at a time over decades is absolutely a major factor in why we have today's ICE.

It is also undeniable that cooperating and showing papers does not guarantee safety or a just outcome. Assuming they do is as dangerous as minimal compliance.

Genuinely curious: which rights have we given up a little bit at a time over decades, and how has this created today’s ICE?

You know you can look this up instead of taking random internet persons word for it

Now I know a lazy MAGA when I meet one

Far from MAGA (loathe Trump, voted blue in every national, spouse worked for BO).

But I’ve never heard ICE described as the product of a gradual erosion of rights.

You want to explain? I’m listening. You don’t? No skin off my nose.

ICE was created after September 11 as part of a wave of rights-abridging policies and institutions that accompanied a huge wave of Islamophobia. People with Muslim-sounding names were put on watchlists. Immigration moved from being administratively managed (INS) to having a dedicated policing force (ICE). Police were increasingly militarized. The government ramped up surveillance of citizens, often in ways that violated the Bill of Rights. This was started under Bush but pursued just as zealously under Obama. So it’s not an R vs. D thing.

The post-9/11 actions built on years of government policy responding to the spike in crime of the 80s and early 90s through mass incarceration—making it easier to arrest and imprison people for longer using policing and tactics that often violated or at least compromised constitutional rights (e.g., race-based stops, pretextual searches). This happened disproportionately under Clinton, so again, not R vs. D. So even as crime was falling starting in the late 90s and early 00s, we were primed for further fear-based rights abridgement after 9/11, this time focused on an external enemy that was allegedly infiltrating us and needed to be policed through other means.

And here we are. FWIW, I’m a Democrat and believe that Democrats are the only answer right now. But I also know that where we are with ICE right now is the product of a bipartisan effort to erode our rights, and it’s important that we all have our eyes open about how we got here and what needs to happen if we have any chance of changing course.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contact your school administration or legal services office if there is a law school there. I believe that rumor is false, and they do not have time to randomly go door to door on a college campus. They are looking for criminals, high-risk/violent individuals, warrants, and gang members, not the average college student in an off-campus apartment. Your child should comply as instructed, just as he would with any law enforcement officer if they happen to stop him and request identification. It's straightforward and basic when encountering ICE or a police officer.

They are disappearing people with no criminal record. They are detaining US citizens.

You do not have to speak to ICE or answer their questions. You can assert your right to remain silent and request a lawyer. You can decline their request to search you or your vehicle. ICE is not allowed into private spaces without a judicial warrant.

OP, here are resources from the Minnesota ACLU:

https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/what-if-im-stopped-police-or-ice/
https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-college-students/

While technically correct, this generally terrible advice from a practical perspective.

If OP’s child is a citizen, s/he should politely answer ICE’s questions and carry/provide proof of citizenship if requested.

99% chance that will end the interaction safely and with no further action.

Correction: If OP's child is a white citizen...

I’m PP and my kids are brown, and I’m very confident that they will be fine if the cooperate and present documentation if requested.

I’m even more confident that failing to do so would make their situation MORE dangerous.

So aside from irrational fear-mongering and making kids less safe, you got anything else?

You are a god dammed fool.

What do you not understand about the number of citizens who are not criminals that have been taken by ICE? Facts matter.

The fact is our courts are litigating a ton of cases just like that. And you think your kids are safe with papers???

Prepare your children this is not going to end well.

The numbers are staggering how many citizens they have put in confinment!

Yes, facts matter. I’ve read the ProPublica report. Have you?

The number of citizens detained who (a) were not protesting, and (b) presented proof of citizenship is very low.

The data clearly and unequivocally shows this to be true.

You’re letting anxiety distort your view of the actual facts.

And for the record, I’m not a fan of ICE or of Trump—loathe him.

ICE should not be detaining ANY US citizens, even if they are protesting or don't have proof of citizenship with them.

You are making excuses for Trump & his henchmen trampling people's rights.

https://immigrantjustice.org/for-immigrants/know-your-rights/ice-encounter/

This is good information.

This is even good to know how to handle a traffic stop with a police officer.

Never, ever, ever, ever, ever open a door for ICE or police. Just don't unless you need their help.

Why would you?

If they have a warrent it MUST be signed by a judge.

ICE can NOT make a traffic stop. They are not traffic police.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contact your school administration or legal services office if there is a law school there. I believe that rumor is false, and they do not have time to randomly go door to door on a college campus. They are looking for criminals, high-risk/violent individuals, warrants, and gang members, not the average college student in an off-campus apartment. Your child should comply as instructed, just as he would with any law enforcement officer if they happen to stop him and request identification. It's straightforward and basic when encountering ICE or a police officer.

They are disappearing people with no criminal record. They are detaining US citizens.

You do not have to speak to ICE or answer their questions. You can assert your right to remain silent and request a lawyer. You can decline their request to search you or your vehicle. ICE is not allowed into private spaces without a judicial warrant.

OP, here are resources from the Minnesota ACLU:

https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/what-if-im-stopped-police-or-ice/
https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-college-students/

While technically correct, this generally terrible advice from a practical perspective.

If OP’s child is a citizen, s/he should politely answer ICE’s questions and carry/provide proof of citizenship if requested.

99% chance that will end the interaction safely and with no further action.

From a practical perspective, compromising our rights by collaborating with law enforcement beyond what’s required is what created the unaccountable secret police we are dealing with today.

We change this by understanding and demanding our rights.

1. You want to take a stand? Go for it. But if OP wants to keep their kid safe and out of detention? Follow my advice.

2. Separately, I think your argument is flimsy. I’d argue that failing to support the enforcement of laws is what created today’s situation—by excusing the Jan 6 rioters and Trump on the one hand, and by not enforcing our immigration laws on the other.

You do you. But I think your approach is neither safe at an individual level nor productive at the societal level.

I agree that everyone has to assess their personal risk.

But it is undeniable that giving up our rights a little bit at a time over decades is absolutely a major factor in why we have today's ICE.

It is also undeniable that cooperating and showing papers does not guarantee safety or a just outcome. Assuming they do is as dangerous as minimal compliance.

Genuinely curious: which rights have we given up a little bit at a time over decades, and how has this created today’s ICE?

You know you can look this up instead of taking random internet persons word for it

Now I know a lazy MAGA when I meet one

Far from MAGA (loathe Trump, voted blue in every national, spouse worked for BO).

But I’ve never heard ICE described as the product of a gradual erosion of rights.

You want to explain? I’m listening. You don’t? No skin off my nose.

You seem intelligent

Why are you not digging into this yourself?

Internet's amazing you know

Bc there are a wide variety of possibilities and I have no way of knowing what this specific poster means unless they tell me.

4th Amendment jurisprudence over the last 30 years? Case law or legislation specifically relating to immigrant rights? Gerrymandering? Citizens United?

Or are they just throwing rhetoric around without having thought through their argument?

The list of possibilities is endless, and it’s impossible to assess their argument without knowing what they intend.

Anonymous wrote:Contact your school administration or legal services office if there is a law school there. I believe that rumor is false, and they do not have time to randomly go door to door on a college campus. They are looking for criminals, high-risk/violent individuals, warrants, and gang members, not the average college student in an off-campus apartment. Your child should comply as instructed, just as he would with any law enforcement officer if they happen to stop him and request identification. It's straightforward and basic when encountering ICE or a police officer.

WFT are you talking about.

they kidnapped an American Citizen from Target... a teenager, beat him and dumped him on the road. Get your head out of the sand.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contact your school administration or legal services office if there is a law school there. I believe that rumor is false, and they do not have time to randomly go door to door on a college campus. They are looking for criminals, high-risk/violent individuals, warrants, and gang members, not the average college student in an off-campus apartment. Your child should comply as instructed, just as he would with any law enforcement officer if they happen to stop him and request identification. It's straightforward and basic when encountering ICE or a police officer.

They are disappearing people with no criminal record. They are detaining US citizens.

You do not have to speak to ICE or answer their questions. You can assert your right to remain silent and request a lawyer. You can decline their request to search you or your vehicle. ICE is not allowed into private spaces without a judicial warrant.

OP, here are resources from the Minnesota ACLU:

https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/what-if-im-stopped-police-or-ice/
https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-college-students/

While technically correct, this generally terrible advice from a practical perspective.

If OP’s child is a citizen, s/he should politely answer ICE’s questions and carry/provide proof of citizenship if requested.

99% chance that will end the interaction safely and with no further action.

From a practical perspective, compromising our rights by collaborating with law enforcement beyond what’s required is what created the unaccountable secret police we are dealing with today.

We change this by understanding and demanding our rights.

1. You want to take a stand? Go for it. But if OP wants to keep their kid safe and out of detention? Follow my advice.

2. Separately, I think your argument is flimsy. I’d argue that failing to support the enforcement of laws is what created today’s situation—by excusing the Jan 6 rioters and Trump on the one hand, and by not enforcing our immigration laws on the other.

You do you. But I think your approach is neither safe at an individual level nor productive at the societal level.

I agree that everyone has to assess their personal risk.

But it is undeniable that giving up our rights a little bit at a time over decades is absolutely a major factor in why we have today's ICE.

It is also undeniable that cooperating and showing papers does not guarantee safety or a just outcome. Assuming they do is as dangerous as minimal compliance.

Genuinely curious: which rights have we given up a little bit at a time over decades, and how has this created today’s ICE?

You know you can look this up instead of taking random internet persons word for it

Now I know a lazy MAGA when I meet one

Far from MAGA (loathe Trump, voted blue in every national, spouse worked for BO).

But I’ve never heard ICE described as the product of a gradual erosion of rights.

You want to explain? I’m listening. You don’t? No skin off my nose.

You seem intelligent

Why are you not digging into this yourself?

Internet's amazing you know

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contact your school administration or legal services office if there is a law school there. I believe that rumor is false, and they do not have time to randomly go door to door on a college campus. They are looking for criminals, high-risk/violent individuals, warrants, and gang members, not the average college student in an off-campus apartment. Your child should comply as instructed, just as he would with any law enforcement officer if they happen to stop him and request identification. It's straightforward and basic when encountering ICE or a police officer.

They are disappearing people with no criminal record. They are detaining US citizens.

You do not have to speak to ICE or answer their questions. You can assert your right to remain silent and request a lawyer. You can decline their request to search you or your vehicle. ICE is not allowed into private spaces without a judicial warrant.

OP, here are resources from the Minnesota ACLU:

https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/what-if-im-stopped-police-or-ice/
https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-college-students/

While technically correct, this generally terrible advice from a practical perspective.

If OP’s child is a citizen, s/he should politely answer ICE’s questions and carry/provide proof of citizenship if requested.

99% chance that will end the interaction safely and with no further action.

From a practical perspective, compromising our rights by collaborating with law enforcement beyond what’s required is what created the unaccountable secret police we are dealing with today.

We change this by understanding and demanding our rights.

1. You want to take a stand? Go for it. But if OP wants to keep their kid safe and out of detention? Follow my advice.

2. Separately, I think your argument is flimsy. I’d argue that failing to support the enforcement of laws is what created today’s situation—by excusing the Jan 6 rioters and Trump on the one hand, and by not enforcing our immigration laws on the other.

You do you. But I think your approach is neither safe at an individual level nor productive at the societal level.

I agree that everyone has to assess their personal risk.

But it is undeniable that giving up our rights a little bit at a time over decades is absolutely a major factor in why we have today's ICE.

It is also undeniable that cooperating and showing papers does not guarantee safety or a just outcome. Assuming they do is as dangerous as minimal compliance.

Genuinely curious: which rights have we given up a little bit at a time over decades, and how has this created today’s ICE?

You know you can look this up instead of taking random internet persons word for it

Now I know a lazy MAGA when I meet one

Far from MAGA (loathe Trump, voted blue in every national, spouse worked for BO).

But I’ve never heard ICE described as the product of a gradual erosion of rights.

You want to explain? I’m listening. You don’t? No skin off my nose.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contact your school administration or legal services office if there is a law school there. I believe that rumor is false, and they do not have time to randomly go door to door on a college campus. They are looking for criminals, high-risk/violent individuals, warrants, and gang members, not the average college student in an off-campus apartment. Your child should comply as instructed, just as he would with any law enforcement officer if they happen to stop him and request identification. It's straightforward and basic when encountering ICE or a police officer.

They are disappearing people with no criminal record. They are detaining US citizens.

You do not have to speak to ICE or answer their questions. You can assert your right to remain silent and request a lawyer. You can decline their request to search you or your vehicle. ICE is not allowed into private spaces without a judicial warrant.

OP, here are resources from the Minnesota ACLU:

https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/what-if-im-stopped-police-or-ice/
https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-college-students/

While technically correct, this generally terrible advice from a practical perspective.

If OP’s child is a citizen, s/he should politely answer ICE’s questions and carry/provide proof of citizenship if requested.

99% chance that will end the interaction safely and with no further action.

Most people don't carry proof of citizenship in the US though. It's not customary and we usually consider those important documents that we store away.

If you’re genuinely concerned, easy enough to take keep photos of docs on your phone. That, combined with polite and cooperative approach, is very likely to suffice.

yet, the evidence from the recent events tells us a completely different story.

Not really. ~200 US citizens had been detained by ICE as of October (per ProPublica) and this includes folks engaged in protests, and includes those who did not present ID.

Given the total number of ICE interactions with the public, the data tells us that the risk of being detained if you cooperate and present proof of citizenship is very small.

Sorry, will the constant lies coming out of this administration, you don't mind if we don't beLIEve..

Do you think even know what ProPublica is or how they came to that number?

FFS, do your research before you spout off.

You seem very trusting

Of nonpartisan, aggressively independent investigative reporting and data? Yes.

Of people’s “feelings” in anonymous online forums? No.

Seems like a prudent way to live.

This?
https://www.propublica.org/article/immigration-dhs-american-citizens-arrested-detained-against-will

One, one even one is acceptable. They are Americans

Two, the ICE game is changing in real time. Those who are prudent will be aware of that. Just watch and see.

Yes, that.

And of course even one is unacceptable. But that’s not what we’re discussing—we’re talking about whether there’s a significant risk of a kid being detained if one is (a) a citizen, (b) presents proof of citizenship, and (c) is polite and cooperative.

The data indicates that the risk is quite low, especially when one also considers that the risk of an ICE encounter in the first place is quite low.

And yes, obviously that risk could change. But we’re talking about the reality of the here and now, not playing “let’s make a WAG about the future and pretend that’s what’s happening now”.

It's so fun to play your game

But now the rest of us have to figure this out

Figure what out? If you have a better idea for keeping college kids safe here and now, let’s hear it.

If you’re talking about how to fix the broader problem of ICE, Trump, etc., let’s take it to the politics board.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contact your school administration or legal services office if there is a law school there. I believe that rumor is false, and they do not have time to randomly go door to door on a college campus. They are looking for criminals, high-risk/violent individuals, warrants, and gang members, not the average college student in an off-campus apartment. Your child should comply as instructed, just as he would with any law enforcement officer if they happen to stop him and request identification. It's straightforward and basic when encountering ICE or a police officer.

They are disappearing people with no criminal record. They are detaining US citizens.

You do not have to speak to ICE or answer their questions. You can assert your right to remain silent and request a lawyer. You can decline their request to search you or your vehicle. ICE is not allowed into private spaces without a judicial warrant.

OP, here are resources from the Minnesota ACLU:

https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/what-if-im-stopped-police-or-ice/
https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-college-students/

While technically correct, this generally terrible advice from a practical perspective.

If OP’s child is a citizen, s/he should politely answer ICE’s questions and carry/provide proof of citizenship if requested.

99% chance that will end the interaction safely and with no further action.

From a practical perspective, compromising our rights by collaborating with law enforcement beyond what’s required is what created the unaccountable secret police we are dealing with today.

We change this by understanding and demanding our rights.

1. You want to take a stand? Go for it. But if OP wants to keep their kid safe and out of detention? Follow my advice.

2. Separately, I think your argument is flimsy. I’d argue that failing to support the enforcement of laws is what created today’s situation—by excusing the Jan 6 rioters and Trump on the one hand, and by not enforcing our immigration laws on the other.

You do you. But I think your approach is neither safe at an individual level nor productive at the societal level.

I agree that everyone has to assess their personal risk.

But it is undeniable that giving up our rights a little bit at a time over decades is absolutely a major factor in why we have today's ICE.

It is also undeniable that cooperating and showing papers does not guarantee safety or a just outcome. Assuming they do is as dangerous as minimal compliance.

Genuinely curious: which rights have we given up a little bit at a time over decades, and how has this created today’s ICE?

You know you can look this up instead of taking random internet persons word for it

Now I know a lazy MAGA when I meet one

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contact your school administration or legal services office if there is a law school there. I believe that rumor is false, and they do not have time to randomly go door to door on a college campus. They are looking for criminals, high-risk/violent individuals, warrants, and gang members, not the average college student in an off-campus apartment. Your child should comply as instructed, just as he would with any law enforcement officer if they happen to stop him and request identification. It's straightforward and basic when encountering ICE or a police officer.

They are disappearing people with no criminal record. They are detaining US citizens.

You do not have to speak to ICE or answer their questions. You can assert your right to remain silent and request a lawyer. You can decline their request to search you or your vehicle. ICE is not allowed into private spaces without a judicial warrant.

OP, here are resources from the Minnesota ACLU:

https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/what-if-im-stopped-police-or-ice/
https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-college-students/

While technically correct, this generally terrible advice from a practical perspective.

If OP’s child is a citizen, s/he should politely answer ICE’s questions and carry/provide proof of citizenship if requested.

99% chance that will end the interaction safely and with no further action.

From a practical perspective, compromising our rights by collaborating with law enforcement beyond what’s required is what created the unaccountable secret police we are dealing with today.

We change this by understanding and demanding our rights.

1. You want to take a stand? Go for it. But if OP wants to keep their kid safe and out of detention? Follow my advice.

2. Separately, I think your argument is flimsy. I’d argue that failing to support the enforcement of laws is what created today’s situation—by excusing the Jan 6 rioters and Trump on the one hand, and by not enforcing our immigration laws on the other.

You do you. But I think your approach is neither safe at an individual level nor productive at the societal level.

I agree that everyone has to assess their personal risk.

But it is undeniable that giving up our rights a little bit at a time over decades is absolutely a major factor in why we have today's ICE.

It is also undeniable that cooperating and showing papers does not guarantee safety or a just outcome. Assuming they do is as dangerous as minimal compliance.

Genuinely curious: which rights have we given up a little bit at a time over decades, and how has this created today’s ICE?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contact your school administration or legal services office if there is a law school there. I believe that rumor is false, and they do not have time to randomly go door to door on a college campus. They are looking for criminals, high-risk/violent individuals, warrants, and gang members, not the average college student in an off-campus apartment. Your child should comply as instructed, just as he would with any law enforcement officer if they happen to stop him and request identification. It's straightforward and basic when encountering ICE or a police officer.

They are disappearing people with no criminal record. They are detaining US citizens.

You do not have to speak to ICE or answer their questions. You can assert your right to remain silent and request a lawyer. You can decline their request to search you or your vehicle. ICE is not allowed into private spaces without a judicial warrant.

OP, here are resources from the Minnesota ACLU:

https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/what-if-im-stopped-police-or-ice/
https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-college-students/

While technically correct, this generally terrible advice from a practical perspective.

If OP’s child is a citizen, s/he should politely answer ICE’s questions and carry/provide proof of citizenship if requested.

99% chance that will end the interaction safely and with no further action.

Most people don't carry proof of citizenship in the US though. It's not customary and we usually consider those important documents that we store away.

If you’re genuinely concerned, easy enough to take keep photos of docs on your phone. That, combined with polite and cooperative approach, is very likely to suffice.

yet, the evidence from the recent events tells us a completely different story.

Not really. ~200 US citizens had been detained by ICE as of October (per ProPublica) and this includes folks engaged in protests, and includes those who did not present ID.

Given the total number of ICE interactions with the public, the data tells us that the risk of being detained if you cooperate and present proof of citizenship is very small.

Sorry, will the constant lies coming out of this administration, you don't mind if we don't beLIEve..

Do you think even know what ProPublica is or how they came to that number?

FFS, do your research before you spout off.

You seem very trusting

Of nonpartisan, aggressively independent investigative reporting and data? Yes.

Of people’s “feelings” in anonymous online forums? No.

Seems like a prudent way to live.

This?
https://www.propublica.org/article/immigration-dhs-american-citizens-arrested-detained-against-will

One, one even one is acceptable. They are Americans

Two, the ICE game is changing in real time. Those who are prudent will be aware of that. Just watch and see.

Yes, that.

And of course even one is unacceptable. But that’s not what we’re discussing—we’re talking about whether there’s a significant risk of a kid being detained if one is (a) a citizen, (b) presents proof of citizenship, and (c) is polite and cooperative.

The data indicates that the risk is quite low, especially when one also considers that the risk of an ICE encounter in the first place is quite low.

And yes, obviously that risk could change. But we’re talking about the reality of the here and now, not playing “let’s make a WAG about the future and pretend that’s what’s happening now”.

It's so fun to play your game

But now the rest of us have to figure this out

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contact your school administration or legal services office if there is a law school there. I believe that rumor is false, and they do not have time to randomly go door to door on a college campus. They are looking for criminals, high-risk/violent individuals, warrants, and gang members, not the average college student in an off-campus apartment. Your child should comply as instructed, just as he would with any law enforcement officer if they happen to stop him and request identification. It's straightforward and basic when encountering ICE or a police officer.

They are disappearing people with no criminal record. They are detaining US citizens.

You do not have to speak to ICE or answer their questions. You can assert your right to remain silent and request a lawyer. You can decline their request to search you or your vehicle. ICE is not allowed into private spaces without a judicial warrant.

OP, here are resources from the Minnesota ACLU:

https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/what-if-im-stopped-police-or-ice/
https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-college-students/

While technically correct, this generally terrible advice from a practical perspective.

If OP’s child is a citizen, s/he should politely answer ICE’s questions and carry/provide proof of citizenship if requested.

99% chance that will end the interaction safely and with no further action.

From a practical perspective, compromising our rights by collaborating with law enforcement beyond what’s required is what created the unaccountable secret police we are dealing with today.

We change this by understanding and demanding our rights.

1. You want to take a stand? Go for it. But if OP wants to keep their kid safe and out of detention? Follow my advice.

2. Separately, I think your argument is flimsy. I’d argue that failing to support the enforcement of laws is what created today’s situation—by excusing the Jan 6 rioters and Trump on the one hand, and by not enforcing our immigration laws on the other.

You do you. But I think your approach is neither safe at an individual level nor productive at the societal level.

I agree that everyone has to assess their personal risk.

But it is undeniable that giving up our rights a little bit at a time over decades is absolutely a major factor in why we have today's ICE.

It is also undeniable that cooperating and showing papers does not guarantee safety or a just outcome. Assuming they do is as dangerous as minimal compliance.

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Anonymous wrote:Contact your school administration or legal services office if there is a law school there. I believe that rumor is false, and they do not have time to randomly go door to door on a college campus. They are looking for criminals, high-risk/violent individuals, warrants, and gang members, not the average college student in an off-campus apartment. Your child should comply as instructed, just as he would with any law enforcement officer if they happen to stop him and request identification. It's straightforward and basic when encountering ICE or a police officer.

They are disappearing people with no criminal record. They are detaining US citizens.

You do not have to speak to ICE or answer their questions. You can assert your right to remain silent and request a lawyer. You can decline their request to search you or your vehicle. ICE is not allowed into private spaces without a judicial warrant.

OP, here are resources from the Minnesota ACLU:

https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/what-if-im-stopped-police-or-ice/
https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-college-students/

While technically correct, this generally terrible advice from a practical perspective.

If OP’s child is a citizen, s/he should politely answer ICE’s questions and carry/provide proof of citizenship if requested.

99% chance that will end the interaction safely and with no further action.

Correction: If OP's child is a white citizen...

I’m PP and my kids are brown, and I’m very confident that they will be fine if the cooperate and present documentation if requested.

I’m even more confident that failing to do so would make their situation MORE dangerous.

So aside from irrational fear-mongering and making kids less safe, you got anything else?

You are a god dammed fool.

What do you not understand about the number of citizens who are not criminals that have been taken by ICE? Facts matter.

The fact is our courts are litigating a ton of cases just like that. And you think your kids are safe with papers???

Prepare your children this is not going to end well.

The numbers are staggering how many citizens they have put in confinment!

Yes, facts matter. I’ve read the ProPublica report. Have you?

The number of citizens detained who (a) were not protesting, and (b) presented proof of citizenship is very low.

The data clearly and unequivocally shows this to be true.

You’re letting anxiety distort your view of the actual facts.

And for the record, I’m not a fan of ICE or of Trump—loathe him.

What do you not understand about the fact that ICE is escalating?

Your past data will not predict the future.

And your feelings will?

As of right now, the evidence is pretty clear that risk is low. Nonetheless, I support taking reasonable precautions (carrying relevant documents, preparing to handle interactions safely, etc.).

I also readily acknowledge that the situation may change for the worse. If it does, then of course my kids’ approach will also change.

What’s your point?

Feelings?

Sure sure tell your brown kids to do whatever you want

Don't mind if some of the rest of us are are "feeling" things

Feel away. I’m going to take practical steps to help my kids take the appropriate action to be safe, while also not encouraging them to panic.

Sorry that you’re offended by this.

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Anonymous wrote:Contact your school administration or legal services office if there is a law school there. I believe that rumor is false, and they do not have time to randomly go door to door on a college campus. They are looking for criminals, high-risk/violent individuals, warrants, and gang members, not the average college student in an off-campus apartment. Your child should comply as instructed, just as he would with any law enforcement officer if they happen to stop him and request identification. It's straightforward and basic when encountering ICE or a police officer.

They are disappearing people with no criminal record. They are detaining US citizens.

You do not have to speak to ICE or answer their questions. You can assert your right to remain silent and request a lawyer. You can decline their request to search you or your vehicle. ICE is not allowed into private spaces without a judicial warrant.

OP, here are resources from the Minnesota ACLU:

https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/what-if-im-stopped-police-or-ice/
https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-college-students/

While technically correct, this generally terrible advice from a practical perspective.

If OP’s child is a citizen, s/he should politely answer ICE’s questions and carry/provide proof of citizenship if requested.

99% chance that will end the interaction safely and with no further action.

Most people don't carry proof of citizenship in the US though. It's not customary and we usually consider those important documents that we store away.

If you’re genuinely concerned, easy enough to take keep photos of docs on your phone. That, combined with polite and cooperative approach, is very likely to suffice.

yet, the evidence from the recent events tells us a completely different story.

Not really. ~200 US citizens had been detained by ICE as of October (per ProPublica) and this includes folks engaged in protests, and includes those who did not present ID.

Given the total number of ICE interactions with the public, the data tells us that the risk of being detained if you cooperate and present proof of citizenship is very small.

Sorry, will the constant lies coming out of this administration, you don't mind if we don't beLIEve..

Do you think even know what ProPublica is or how they came to that number?

FFS, do your research before you spout off.

You seem very trusting

Of nonpartisan, aggressively independent investigative reporting and data? Yes.

Of people’s “feelings” in anonymous online forums? No.

Seems like a prudent way to live.

This?
https://www.propublica.org/article/immigration-dhs-american-citizens-arrested-detained-against-will

One, one even one is acceptable. They are Americans

Two, the ICE game is changing in real time. Those who are prudent will be aware of that. Just watch and see.

Good point, not even one American detained is acceptable. Americans assaulted and killed by illegal aliens though is of no concern.

Yep, you've got the talking point down..

Good job