BTW, St andrews is about 18% American in their undergrad popul….The point was that if you REMOVE the Americans from consideration, the avg student is much more qualified academically there than the avg student at Miami or Pepperdine. It is not even close. Comparing apples and oranges. Her professors in History and English (she was a dual honours) were real scholars vs her professors at Pepperdine….

Nothing you’ve said about your niece negates what I’ve said about St Andrews. I’ve no doubt many who end up there have been rejected from Ivy League schools. I’ve known kids with low 1400s get into St Andrews. I’ve heard of high 1300s. These applicants have a lot more overlap with kids applying to the schools I mentioned than they do with kids getting into Ivy League Schools.

I’ve lived in the UK for ten years and my kids have done GCSE/A-levels. I’ve seen A*A*A* kids choose programs around the uk over St. Andrews. The ones who choose St. Andrews choose the experience over academics which fair enough. It is an amazing school. Small class sizes. International feel. Cute town. Golf.

It’s interesting you mentioned the essays. I do think writing expectations are higher in UK universities in general. That is a consideration. The British kids know how to write. But with St Andrews now being like 20-35%? American I’ve heard really good things about support for students there compared to other UK universities. Americans failing out of St. Andrews is certainly not typical.

My initial point was that I see a connection between these three schools. Students who like one seem to like the others. I don’t see St Andrews as the odd one out. I don’t see a huge increase in academics personally. Maybe a bit stronger, but not 100x. I actually like all three schools for my own kids.

Anonymous wrote:Americans getting accepted to St. Andrews are the kids applying to Pepperdine, Miami, SMU, Colgate, etc. these are not the kids getting into top 30 privates schools in the US. These are not the kids even trying to apply to Oxbridge. And St. Andrews is a small university with 50% international population. St Andrews has leaned into attracting rich Americans and internationals (as well as upper class Brits). It’s not hard. It is a rich kids playground. And it benefits the school to see these kids do well in their classes and be happy and do well with their degree or go on to inherit their family business.


It’s a small school with good instruction, but I would not say rigorous. Are the academics stronger than Miami? Maybe a tiny bit. But not like Oxford, uchicago, or even Cornell/Penn where I’ve seen kids struggle because of hard coursework. I would not say it’s 100% stronger academically than a school like Pepperdine nor is it in a different league. However naive Americans seem to think this so maybe that matters most!

AS someone with a family member who studied at both Pepperdine and St Andrews, I would beg to differ. Niece transferred from St Andrews to Pepperdine. She couldnt take the rigour. She said she would struggle with the length of essays she had to write and how intense the tutorials were. She scraped with a 11 average her first 3 semesters…..was able to transfer back home to California, to Pepperdine….and it has been a breeze compared to St Andrews. She loves it. But she will admit her typical colleague at St Andrews was just 100x more prepared than her average friend at Pepperdine. She said it wasnt even close. Her American friends at St Andrews were not kids that applied to Miami, SMU or Colgate…her friends were kids that did not get in to Ivy Leagues despite very high SAT scores and great GPAs. They were borderline cases that got in NYU, USC and others. Her best friend (also from California) was a girl that passed on Georgetown to go to St Andrews. She said the level of students were just different. You might not like it, but that came straight from someone who spent 3 semesters in St Andrews and just graduated from Pepperdine last year.

Americans getting accepted to St. Andrews are the kids applying to Pepperdine, Miami, SMU, Colgate, etc. these are not the kids getting into top 30 privates schools in the US. These are not the kids even trying to apply to Oxbridge. And St. Andrews is a small university with 50% international population. St Andrews has leaned into attracting rich Americans and internationals (as well as upper class Brits). It’s not hard. It is a rich kids playground. And it benefits the school to see these kids do well in their classes and be happy and do well with their degree or go on to inherit their family business.


It’s a small school with good instruction, but I would not say rigorous. Are the academics stronger than Miami? Maybe a tiny bit. But not like Oxford, uchicago, or even Cornell/Penn where I’ve seen kids struggle because of hard coursework. I would not say it’s 100% stronger academically than a school like Pepperdine nor is it in a different league. However naive Americans seem to think this so maybe that matters most!

Referring to the universities as a whole does not do justice either to their strengths or weaknesses.

Just for example, Miami is legit for life science, pre-med, nursing, etc. Their med school and nursing school are both top 50 minimum and top 35-40 in some rankings.

Conversely I would not spend the money to study engineering there.

Programs are also known by employers and grad schools. That is why I would focus on program not school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think these three schools do have something in common. All three attract wealthy American kids, but for good reasons. These wealthy kids aren’t fools. Their parents weren’t fools.

Pepperdine and UMiami are like the higher end models of the luxury made cars with the most expensive trims. You get what you pay for at these schools. They have a higher end feel when it comes to everything. Both just fine academically, and honestly probably punch above their weight (rank) academically. You can get a really good education, lots of opportunities, good network too.

St Andrews also seems to attract wealthy Americans. A lot. I would not say it’s stronger academically, though generally uk schools are stronger than American. But st Andrew’s caters to Americans unlike Warwick or Durham. You are getting a fine education and with that fancy, old world gothic vibe, steeped in tradition. It feels rich. Honestly I can’t comment on the experience there. Is it actually? I don’t know.

All great. But disagree on the Sta commentary. 100% stronger academically. remove the Americans for a min. The avg student at St Andrews is much more qualified than the avg student at Miami or Pepperdine…..it is really a different level of a university academic wise….

This 100%

Miami does not have much academic prestige.

Anonymous wrote:I think these three schools do have something in common. All three attract wealthy American kids, but for good reasons. These wealthy kids aren’t fools. Their parents weren’t fools.

Pepperdine and UMiami are like the higher end models of the luxury made cars with the most expensive trims. You get what you pay for at these schools. They have a higher end feel when it comes to everything. Both just fine academically, and honestly probably punch above their weight (rank) academically. You can get a really good education, lots of opportunities, good network too.

St Andrews also seems to attract wealthy Americans. A lot. I would not say it’s stronger academically, though generally uk schools are stronger than American. But st Andrew’s caters to Americans unlike Warwick or Durham. You are getting a fine education and with that fancy, old world gothic vibe, steeped in tradition. It feels rich. Honestly I can’t comment on the experience there. Is it actually? I don’t know.

All great. But disagree on the Sta commentary. 100% stronger academically. remove the Americans for a min. The avg student at St Andrews is much more qualified than the avg student at Miami or Pepperdine…..it is really a different level of a university academic wise….

I think these three schools do have something in common. All three attract wealthy American kids, but for good reasons. These wealthy kids aren’t fools. Their parents weren’t fools.

Pepperdine and UMiami are like the higher end models of the luxury made cars with the most expensive trims. You get what you pay for at these schools. They have a higher end feel when it comes to everything. Both just fine academically, and honestly probably punch above their weight (rank) academically. You can get a really good education, lots of opportunities, good network too.

St Andrews also seems to attract wealthy Americans. A lot. I would not say it’s stronger academically, though generally uk schools are stronger than American. But st Andrew’s caters to Americans unlike Warwick or Durham. You are getting a fine education and with that fancy, old world gothic vibe, steeped in tradition. It feels rich. Honestly I can’t comment on the experience there. Is it actually? I don’t know.

Anonymous wrote:Pepperdine has stronger academic reputation.

Historically yes. But MIami has come a long way from its flamboyant past…

Pepperdine has stronger academic reputation.

University of Miami is a school with some very good programs, and also some very mediocre ones. So I would say that fit for your DC would depend on the strength of the department to which your DC is applying. Many students are just there to party, and others are very bright. I am not as familiar with Pepperdine as a school, but I have encountered multiple Pepperdine grads in various circumstances. Every time, I have been shocked by a lack of critical thinking skills and a lack of ability to adapt to circumstances. They all now live in a subcategory in my head labeled "Pepperdine people." Granted, my sample size is relatively small and this is anecdotal. All the same, I consider it a red flag. Surely at least one should have been an exception? Even if your DC would rise to the top, they'd have to be prepared to be surrounded by a number of real duds ( and I don't just mean academically. An emphasis on religion is no proxy for character.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since money is not an issue, he is targeting the right schools.

Some might make a saints versus sinners argument, but I know too many Pepperdine alums to buy that line.

Interesting that he is conflicted as the two schools offer extremely different environments/campus cultures. Since he has attended Christian schools his entire life thus far, Pepperdine might be the more comfortable option.

I went to a Christian private (Baptist) and I was uncomfortable with Pepperdine and how Evangelical it was.

How long ago was this?

Anonymous wrote:Since money is not an issue, he is targeting the right schools.

Some might make a saints versus sinners argument, but I know too many Pepperdine alums to buy that line.

Interesting that he is conflicted as the two schools offer extremely different environments/campus cultures. Since he has attended Christian schools his entire life thus far, Pepperdine might be the more comfortable option.

I went to a Christian private (Baptist) and I was uncomfortable with Pepperdine and how Evangelical it was.

Anonymous wrote:Daughter is at Pepperdine now. We are from Vancouver. She is having a great time. BUT, it is a tiny school. You basically know everyone and the city is dead at night. If you are not Greek it can be little too slow. I would definitely think about that when comparing a school in a city like Miami to Malibu….

cant say anything about St Andrews….

I understand Pepperdine and Miami cater to the same socio-economic group in America. But these are very different environments….even if the parent’s pockets are the same….