Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Claims things “are too crazy”, she’s “exhausted from being around people all the time”.

Is this normal? I think of the holidays as a special time to connect and be intimate.

Man here. Why do you think that?

How is the labor divided in terms of creating whatever magic you do?

But I think it’s beyond weird you associate the holidays with getting your dick wet. What’s that about?

The fact that you used that phrase indicates that you have a very negative view of sex.

I love sex. I’m just crass in general. I really don’t care if it makes you queasy or blush or whatever. You’ll get over it.

DP and a woman. I thought it was a good phrase here to emphasize how one-sided OP is being.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's completely normal. Her social energy is all used up by the social obligations of the holidays. She doesn't have enough alone time and rest. Yes it's a special time to connect-- but with other people, not you. Because she lives with you all year long. You should be connecting with the other people that you are seeing, not increasing your demands on your wife.

You might think that telling her all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is the solution, but it isn't. You could consider taking on some of the workload, but only if you're going to do a good job and do it reliably and without being reminded. Otherwise you're just one more problem on her list.

I don’t think that telling her that all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is good, but I think it’s fine to tell her that maybe they should dial it back as a couple.
He’s her husband. He is supposed to protect her and take care of her, at least somewhat. He shouldn’t just watch while she makes herself crazy and exhausted.

You can try that, but what you're saying is "Don't do the things you have been doing, because I don't value them." That is not going to put her in the mood. It only makes her feel unappreciated and alone. He should offer up something that *he* values to be eliminated or taken over by him.

No.
You can have like three things you value around the holidays and that’s it. So, you can value:
- family time, religion, music
Or
- gifts, elaborate meals, and decorations
Or
- cards, connecting with extended family, and baking for the neighbors

You don’t get to say that you value 25 different things and then drive yourself and everyone around you crazy.

"Honey, you are driving me and everyone else crazy and you can't have the things you value" is not going to get her into the sack.

Maybe not. But at least she won’t be making herself crazy and exhausted.
It’s kind of his responsibility not to let her do that. Even if it doesn’t lead to sex.

I wonder what voluntary activities of his she would like to eliminate. For his own good of course.

Probably work related stuff. I know I tell my husband not to pick up extra work because he thinks we need the money. We will find other ways to save money, but we want him home.

At least he's getting paid for it. My salaried exDH liked to hide behind his work rather than do any sort of mental or physical labor at home. Change a lightbulb? Dry the dishes? Nope, have to revise this slide no one will actually look at for the 14th time, because "work".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's completely normal. Her social energy is all used up by the social obligations of the holidays. She doesn't have enough alone time and rest. Yes it's a special time to connect-- but with other people, not you. Because she lives with you all year long. You should be connecting with the other people that you are seeing, not increasing your demands on your wife.

You might think that telling her all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is the solution, but it isn't. You could consider taking on some of the workload, but only if you're going to do a good job and do it reliably and without being reminded. Otherwise you're just one more problem on her list.

I don’t think that telling her that all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is good, but I think it’s fine to tell her that maybe they should dial it back as a couple.
He’s her husband. He is supposed to protect her and take care of her, at least somewhat. He shouldn’t just watch while she makes herself crazy and exhausted.

You can try that, but what you're saying is "Don't do the things you have been doing, because I don't value them." That is not going to put her in the mood. It only makes her feel unappreciated and alone. He should offer up something that *he* values to be eliminated or taken over by him.

No.
You can have like three things you value around the holidays and that’s it. So, you can value:
- family time, religion, music
Or
- gifts, elaborate meals, and decorations
Or
- cards, connecting with extended family, and baking for the neighbors

You don’t get to say that you value 25 different things and then drive yourself and everyone around you crazy.

wrong, she can value whatever she wants and do whatever she wants for christmas, EVEN IF it means her husband doesnt get to have sex with her that week because she is spending her time doing holiday things that she enjoys, but that do wear her out a little bit both socially and physically.

I mean, if she is someone who is going to have “lover of Christmas” written on her tombstone, then yes, you’re right. If this is the one time of year that she is just all out and she loves it, then she should do it.
But if she is just a typical neurotic lady who just feels like she needs to do “all the things” so that she doesn’t disappoint anyone, and she will go and go until she is physically and emotionally exhausted, then her husband’s role is to help her relax, and pick like three things to go all in on.

Guess the Christmas pause on DCUM misogyny is over.

Why is anything nice or lovely or generous or gracious or that makes life more special or comfortable always put down as the product of "neuroticism" by men when they want sex or want to be lazy, but they are perfectly happy to bask in it if none of their effort or contribution is required?

Rheotorical question in case that wasn't apparent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Claims things “are too crazy”, she’s “exhausted from being around people all the time”.

Is this normal? I think of the holidays as a special time to connect and be intimate.

Man here. Why do you think that?

How is the labor divided in terms of creating whatever magic you do?

But I think it’s beyond weird you associate the holidays with getting your dick wet. What’s that about?

The fact that you used that phrase indicates that you have a very negative view of sex.

I love sex. I’m just crass in general. I really don’t care if it makes you queasy or blush or whatever. You’ll get over it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's completely normal. Her social energy is all used up by the social obligations of the holidays. She doesn't have enough alone time and rest. Yes it's a special time to connect-- but with other people, not you. Because she lives with you all year long. You should be connecting with the other people that you are seeing, not increasing your demands on your wife.

You might think that telling her all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is the solution, but it isn't. You could consider taking on some of the workload, but only if you're going to do a good job and do it reliably and without being reminded. Otherwise you're just one more problem on her list.

I don’t think that telling her that all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is good, but I think it’s fine to tell her that maybe they should dial it back as a couple.
He’s her husband. He is supposed to protect her and take care of her, at least somewhat. He shouldn’t just watch while she makes herself crazy and exhausted.

You can try that, but what you're saying is "Don't do the things you have been doing, because I don't value them." That is not going to put her in the mood. It only makes her feel unappreciated and alone. He should offer up something that *he* values to be eliminated or taken over by him.

No.
You can have like three things you value around the holidays and that’s it. So, you can value:
- family time, religion, music
Or
- gifts, elaborate meals, and decorations
Or
- cards, connecting with extended family, and baking for the neighbors

You don’t get to say that you value 25 different things and then drive yourself and everyone around you crazy.

"Honey, you are driving me and everyone else crazy and you can't have the things you value" is not going to get her into the sack.

Maybe not. But at least she won’t be making herself crazy and exhausted.
It’s kind of his responsibility not to let her do that. Even if it doesn’t lead to sex.

I wonder what voluntary activities of his she would like to eliminate. For his own good of course.

Probably work related stuff. I know I tell my husband not to pick up extra work because he thinks we need the money. We will find other ways to save money, but we want him home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's completely normal. Her social energy is all used up by the social obligations of the holidays. She doesn't have enough alone time and rest. Yes it's a special time to connect-- but with other people, not you. Because she lives with you all year long. You should be connecting with the other people that you are seeing, not increasing your demands on your wife.

You might think that telling her all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is the solution, but it isn't. You could consider taking on some of the workload, but only if you're going to do a good job and do it reliably and without being reminded. Otherwise you're just one more problem on her list.

I don’t think that telling her that all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is good, but I think it’s fine to tell her that maybe they should dial it back as a couple.
He’s her husband. He is supposed to protect her and take care of her, at least somewhat. He shouldn’t just watch while she makes herself crazy and exhausted.

You can try that, but what you're saying is "Don't do the things you have been doing, because I don't value them." That is not going to put her in the mood. It only makes her feel unappreciated and alone. He should offer up something that *he* values to be eliminated or taken over by him.

No.
You can have like three things you value around the holidays and that’s it. So, you can value:
- family time, religion, music
Or
- gifts, elaborate meals, and decorations
Or
- cards, connecting with extended family, and baking for the neighbors

You don’t get to say that you value 25 different things and then drive yourself and everyone around you crazy.

wrong, she can value whatever she wants and do whatever she wants for christmas, EVEN IF it means her husband doesnt get to have sex with her that week because she is spending her time doing holiday things that she enjoys, but that do wear her out a little bit both socially and physically.

I mean, if she is someone who is going to have “lover of Christmas” written on her tombstone, then yes, you’re right. If this is the one time of year that she is just all out and she loves it, then she should do it.
But if she is just a typical neurotic lady who just feels like she needs to do “all the things” so that she doesn’t disappoint anyone, and she will go and go until she is physically and emotionally exhausted, then her husband’s role is to help her relax, and pick like three things to go all in on.

God it drives me crazy when men say they want to “connect” and make it all about sex.

If you want to connect, plan a date. Take her out. Cook dinner with her. Spend more time with her. Talk to her. Make her time with you fun. Help her more. THAT’S what builds connection. Connection does not default to sex.

Or just be honest. You don’t want connection. You want sex. Quit pretending that it’s something it’s not. Sex when she doesn’t want it is not going to make her feel more “connected” to you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's completely normal. Her social energy is all used up by the social obligations of the holidays. She doesn't have enough alone time and rest. Yes it's a special time to connect-- but with other people, not you. Because she lives with you all year long. You should be connecting with the other people that you are seeing, not increasing your demands on your wife.

You might think that telling her all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is the solution, but it isn't. You could consider taking on some of the workload, but only if you're going to do a good job and do it reliably and without being reminded. Otherwise you're just one more problem on her list.

I don’t think that telling her that all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is good, but I think it’s fine to tell her that maybe they should dial it back as a couple.
He’s her husband. He is supposed to protect her and take care of her, at least somewhat. He shouldn’t just watch while she makes herself crazy and exhausted.

You can try that, but what you're saying is "Don't do the things you have been doing, because I don't value them." That is not going to put her in the mood. It only makes her feel unappreciated and alone. He should offer up something that *he* values to be eliminated or taken over by him.

No.
You can have like three things you value around the holidays and that’s it. So, you can value:
- family time, religion, music
Or
- gifts, elaborate meals, and decorations
Or
- cards, connecting with extended family, and baking for the neighbors

You don’t get to say that you value 25 different things and then drive yourself and everyone around you crazy.

"Honey, you are driving me and everyone else crazy and you can't have the things you value" is not going to get her into the sack.

Maybe not. But at least she won’t be making herself crazy and exhausted.
It’s kind of his responsibility not to let her do that. Even if it doesn’t lead to sex.

I wonder what voluntary activities of his she would like to eliminate. For his own good of course.

Sex would seem to be an obvious activity that she's starting with.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's completely normal. Her social energy is all used up by the social obligations of the holidays. She doesn't have enough alone time and rest. Yes it's a special time to connect-- but with other people, not you. Because she lives with you all year long. You should be connecting with the other people that you are seeing, not increasing your demands on your wife.

You might think that telling her all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is the solution, but it isn't. You could consider taking on some of the workload, but only if you're going to do a good job and do it reliably and without being reminded. Otherwise you're just one more problem on her list.

I don’t think that telling her that all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is good, but I think it’s fine to tell her that maybe they should dial it back as a couple.
He’s her husband. He is supposed to protect her and take care of her, at least somewhat. He shouldn’t just watch while she makes herself crazy and exhausted.

You can try that, but what you're saying is "Don't do the things you have been doing, because I don't value them." That is not going to put her in the mood. It only makes her feel unappreciated and alone. He should offer up something that *he* values to be eliminated or taken over by him.

No.
You can have like three things you value around the holidays and that’s it. So, you can value:
- family time, religion, music
Or
- gifts, elaborate meals, and decorations
Or
- cards, connecting with extended family, and baking for the neighbors

You don’t get to say that you value 25 different things and then drive yourself and everyone around you crazy.

"Honey, you are driving me and everyone else crazy and you can't have the things you value" is not going to get her into the sack.

Maybe not. But at least she won’t be making herself crazy and exhausted.
It’s kind of his responsibility not to let her do that. Even if it doesn’t lead to sex.

I wonder what voluntary activities of his she would like to eliminate. For his own good of course.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband does NOTHING for Christmas. I do all the shopping, all the wrapping, all the schlepping. Once the kids opened their presents, he slept for the rest of the day. I made dinner. And cleaned up. There are a ton of boxes that need to by broken down--did he do it? Nope. I'm just over it. He gets incredibly defensive when I ask him to do anything.
I want to get in the car and drive somewhere far away.

No one is more surprised by a kid's gifts on Christmas morning than their father.

Facts. My ex would light up like a kid on Christmas morning when our kids ran down to the tree. They’d be like “did you know Santa would bring this?” And he could honestly answer “I had no idea.”

This is my first Christmas without him and it was full of unexpected joy. It was so strange to have 50% more energy and realize how much effort I put into tiptoeing around his couch naps and phone time and cajoling him into “helping”.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My ex used to get verbally and sometimes physically abusive during the holidays. I'm quite sure it was caused by the pressure of nonstop family scrutiny, even though my ex was from a loving family. I am a man and she is a woman. When I say verbally I mean screaming, and when I say physically I mean hitting. Her punches and slaps never actually hurt physically but they were very upsetting to me, especially when one of our children saw her throw a punch, which I blocked with my hand. Years later our child asked me about the time mommy and daddy were hitting each other during a family event. This happened in a private room but the kid saw us. Most people wouldn't believe me if I told them.

This is going off-topic but it’s really important to call this out.

Your ex was engaged in what is inaccurately described as “reactive abuse” or more accurately self-defense against escalating emotional or physical abuse, typically perpetrated by someone with a personality disorder or at a minimum engaged in manipulation and emotional abuse. Anyone about to nod along and pity this PP should google “reactive abuse” to understand what’s being described.

How can you possibly have enough information to make that diagnosis? PP says he was being hit and suggests it was a result of his wife being stressed out because she unduly scrutinized by her own family. Taking those assertions as true, how can we leap to the conclusion that the wife was hitting the husband because of the husband's abuse?

His language and description is very hands-off about his role in the situation and clinically specific to a degree that is extremely recognizable to anyone who has dealt with interventions in this kind of situation. Maybe (infinitely small chance) he didn’t do anything, but the scenario he’s describing, particularly blaming it on his wife and her family’s expectations and it taking place around the holidays while describing himself as an innocent bystander and victim, is so common that it might as well be a script.

I don’t really care if you think I have enough information- there is someone reading this thread who has experienced the exact same thing and is blaming herself and staying in a relationship with someone who is telling her it’s all her fault. If she can google “reactive abuse” today it might give her the push she needs to seek safety.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's completely normal. Her social energy is all used up by the social obligations of the holidays. She doesn't have enough alone time and rest. Yes it's a special time to connect-- but with other people, not you. Because she lives with you all year long. You should be connecting with the other people that you are seeing, not increasing your demands on your wife.

You might think that telling her all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is the solution, but it isn't. You could consider taking on some of the workload, but only if you're going to do a good job and do it reliably and without being reminded. Otherwise you're just one more problem on her list.

I don’t think that telling her that all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is good, but I think it’s fine to tell her that maybe they should dial it back as a couple.
He’s her husband. He is supposed to protect her and take care of her, at least somewhat. He shouldn’t just watch while she makes herself crazy and exhausted.

You can try that, but what you're saying is "Don't do the things you have been doing, because I don't value them." That is not going to put her in the mood. It only makes her feel unappreciated and alone. He should offer up something that *he* values to be eliminated or taken over by him.

No.
You can have like three things you value around the holidays and that’s it. So, you can value:
- family time, religion, music
Or
- gifts, elaborate meals, and decorations
Or
- cards, connecting with extended family, and baking for the neighbors

You don’t get to say that you value 25 different things and then drive yourself and everyone around you crazy.

"Honey, you are driving me and everyone else crazy and you can't have the things you value" is not going to get her into the sack.

Maybe not. But at least she won’t be making herself crazy and exhausted.
It’s kind of his responsibility not to let her do that. Even if it doesn’t lead to sex.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My ex used to get verbally and sometimes physically abusive during the holidays. I'm quite sure it was caused by the pressure of nonstop family scrutiny, even though my ex was from a loving family. I am a man and she is a woman. When I say verbally I mean screaming, and when I say physically I mean hitting. Her punches and slaps never actually hurt physically but they were very upsetting to me, especially when one of our children saw her throw a punch, which I blocked with my hand. Years later our child asked me about the time mommy and daddy were hitting each other during a family event. This happened in a private room but the kid saw us. Most people wouldn't believe me if I told them.

This is going off-topic but it’s really important to call this out.

Your ex was engaged in what is inaccurately described as “reactive abuse” or more accurately self-defense against escalating emotional or physical abuse, typically perpetrated by someone with a personality disorder or at a minimum engaged in manipulation and emotional abuse. Anyone about to nod along and pity this PP should google “reactive abuse” to understand what’s being described.

How can you possibly have enough information to make that diagnosis? PP says he was being hit and suggests it was a result of his wife being stressed out because she unduly scrutinized by her own family. Taking those assertions as true, how can we leap to the conclusion that the wife was hitting the husband because of the husband's abuse?

Anonymous wrote:My husband does NOTHING for Christmas. I do all the shopping, all the wrapping, all the schlepping. Once the kids opened their presents, he slept for the rest of the day. I made dinner. And cleaned up. There are a ton of boxes that need to by broken down--did he do it? Nope. I'm just over it. He gets incredibly defensive when I ask him to do anything.
I want to get in the car and drive somewhere far away.

No one is more surprised by a kid's gifts on Christmas morning than their father.

Anonymous wrote:My ex used to get verbally and sometimes physically abusive during the holidays. I'm quite sure it was caused by the pressure of nonstop family scrutiny, even though my ex was from a loving family. I am a man and she is a woman. When I say verbally I mean screaming, and when I say physically I mean hitting. Her punches and slaps never actually hurt physically but they were very upsetting to me, especially when one of our children saw her throw a punch, which I blocked with my hand. Years later our child asked me about the time mommy and daddy were hitting each other during a family event. This happened in a private room but the kid saw us. Most people wouldn't believe me if I told them.

This is going off-topic but it’s really important to call this out.

Your ex was engaged in what is inaccurately described as “reactive abuse” or more accurately self-defense against escalating emotional or physical abuse, typically perpetrated by someone with a personality disorder or at a minimum engaged in manipulation and emotional abuse. Anyone about to nod along and pity this PP should google “reactive abuse” to understand what’s being described.