Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of the Type A overachievers in DC look at me this way. I have an impressive graduate degree but never lived up to its potential, largely because I just don't like the field it is in and wish I'd just gotten an MFA in writing and become an English teacher like I wanted. I was told by everyone that was a waste of my intelligence and that is never have any money. My younger self was a people pleaser so I got the more impressive (to them) degree but never felt invested and have drifted through my career.

I'm mid-40s now and financially stable but not wealthy, doing a job no one is particularly impressed by. However, I'm a great parent and have a happy life with my family. I *am* a frustrated writer and wish I had more time to debate to that. I've published a few short stories but that's it. I still plug away at it though. Publishing a novel remains my greatest professional dream.

In DC, I think a lot of people view me as a hopeless dreamer. This used to get to me but now I see that plenty of the people who would judge me that way aren't particularly happy or fulfilled. A lot of highly successful careers start to crust over at my age and, aside from the money, don't look so good. Lawyers who still work 70 hour weeks in the 50s and can't take vacations with their kids because of client demands. Corporate careers that feel soulless and empty -- you'll find 20-somethings convinced their start up or corporate employer is going to change the world, people my age know better and understand it's just a job.

So the main downside is that it's hard to get rich as a drifter. But as a hard and reliable worker, I've always had work and I'm not broke either. I am rich in the things you realize in middle age matter most -- kids, good marriage, good friends, art, intellectual.stumulation.

I think you are actually the counter example, you didn’t follow a passion but you worked hard and you are doing well. I am talking more about a situation where you would follow your passion for writing yet not put in much effort and either be a low performer or move on to another passion. But one thing you made me think about - being a not so high performer still doesn’t mean one can’t have a job! -OP

PP here. It would have been better for me to follow my passion, even if I'd never succeeded as a writer. I had a plan (HS English teacher) for making money and being stable, but I wanted an education focused on writing to improve my skills. This was practical but others in my life (parents, siblings, peers) believed I was destined for some impressive corporate/white-collar career and really dissuaded me. As a result I compromised my goals and essentially "failed" at my chosen profession.

I would have been better if failing as a writer (which I have done anyway) but focusing my life on that passion, with a perfectly respectable backup job I know I would have been fine with. I wasted time and effort on a career I just do not care about to please others, and I regret that.

So yes, I'm the opposite of what you are talking about, but I wish I was exactly what you are talking about. Pushing people with artistic passions into fields that aren't artistic, just because these people seem smart, is not a path to success and happiness. For me it's been a path to mediocrity with no more financial pay off than my "passion" plan. Judging people with passions just because they might not succeed at it incorrectly assumes that their non-passion options will lead to more success. I have not found that to be true.

OP here. I am not against following a passion, I did it myself when I was young but I tried to be the really good at it, put in effort and I liked doing the regular work that surrounds that passion. What puzzles me is a young person who claims he likes to write for example, takes a creative writing class in community college and then proceeds to be lazy with drafts and edits, gets a low grade, then either moves on to something else or - much more puzzling - takes creative writing 2 the next year! Why?! If you like writing why don’t you want to put in effort? Yet I see this around me. What is this?!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure what the problem is?

The problem is that since they don’t apply themselves anywhere, they don’t have a good GPA, then it takes them forever to graduate from a mediocre college (if they graduate at all), then they can’t find or hold a professional job.
I am seeing young people like that and I was curious what happens to them later in life. -OP

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of the Type A overachievers in DC look at me this way. I have an impressive graduate degree but never lived up to its potential, largely because I just don't like the field it is in and wish I'd just gotten an MFA in writing and become an English teacher like I wanted. I was told by everyone that was a waste of my intelligence and that is never have any money. My younger self was a people pleaser so I got the more impressive (to them) degree but never felt invested and have drifted through my career.

I'm mid-40s now and financially stable but not wealthy, doing a job no one is particularly impressed by. However, I'm a great parent and have a happy life with my family. I *am* a frustrated writer and wish I had more time to debate to that. I've published a few short stories but that's it. I still plug away at it though. Publishing a novel remains my greatest professional dream.

In DC, I think a lot of people view me as a hopeless dreamer. This used to get to me but now I see that plenty of the people who would judge me that way aren't particularly happy or fulfilled. A lot of highly successful careers start to crust over at my age and, aside from the money, don't look so good. Lawyers who still work 70 hour weeks in the 50s and can't take vacations with their kids because of client demands. Corporate careers that feel soulless and empty -- you'll find 20-somethings convinced their start up or corporate employer is going to change the world, people my age know better and understand it's just a job.

So the main downside is that it's hard to get rich as a drifter. But as a hard and reliable worker, I've always had work and I'm not broke either. I am rich in the things you realize in middle age matter most -- kids, good marriage, good friends, art, intellectual.stumulation.

You can still be a writer. A lot of writers only began their careers after retiring from law lol like kristin hannah or John Grisham. My dance teacher was also a lawyer now a writer, she did 3 careers in one life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure what the problem is?

The problem is that since they don’t apply themselves anywhere, they don’t have a good GPA, then it takes them forever to graduate from a mediocre college (if they graduate at all), then they can’t find or hold a professional job.
I am seeing young people like that and I was curious what happens to them later in life. -OP

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of the Type A overachievers in DC look at me this way. I have an impressive graduate degree but never lived up to its potential, largely because I just don't like the field it is in and wish I'd just gotten an MFA in writing and become an English teacher like I wanted. I was told by everyone that was a waste of my intelligence and that is never have any money. My younger self was a people pleaser so I got the more impressive (to them) degree but never felt invested and have drifted through my career.

I'm mid-40s now and financially stable but not wealthy, doing a job no one is particularly impressed by. However, I'm a great parent and have a happy life with my family. I *am* a frustrated writer and wish I had more time to debate to that. I've published a few short stories but that's it. I still plug away at it though. Publishing a novel remains my greatest professional dream.

In DC, I think a lot of people view me as a hopeless dreamer. This used to get to me but now I see that plenty of the people who would judge me that way aren't particularly happy or fulfilled. A lot of highly successful careers start to crust over at my age and, aside from the money, don't look so good. Lawyers who still work 70 hour weeks in the 50s and can't take vacations with their kids because of client demands. Corporate careers that feel soulless and empty -- you'll find 20-somethings convinced their start up or corporate employer is going to change the world, people my age know better and understand it's just a job.

So the main downside is that it's hard to get rich as a drifter. But as a hard and reliable worker, I've always had work and I'm not broke either. I am rich in the things you realize in middle age matter most -- kids, good marriage, good friends, art, intellectual.stumulation.

I think you are actually the counter example, you didn’t follow a passion but you worked hard and you are doing well. I am talking more about a situation where you would follow your passion for writing yet not put in much effort and either be a low performer or move on to another passion. But one thing you made me think about - being a not so high performer still doesn’t mean one can’t have a job! -OP

PP here. It would have been better for me to follow my passion, even if I'd never succeeded as a writer. I had a plan (HS English teacher) for making money and being stable, but I wanted an education focused on writing to improve my skills. This was practical but others in my life (parents, siblings, peers) believed I was destined for some impressive corporate/white-collar career and really dissuaded me. As a result I compromised my goals and essentially "failed" at my chosen profession.

I would have been better if failing as a writer (which I have done anyway) but focusing my life on that passion, with a perfectly respectable backup job I know I would have been fine with. I wasted time and effort on a career I just do not care about to please others, and I regret that.

So yes, I'm the opposite of what you are talking about, but I wish I was exactly what you are talking about. Pushing people with artistic passions into fields that aren't artistic, just because these people seem smart, is not a path to success and happiness. For me it's been a path to mediocrity with no more financial pay off than my "passion" plan. Judging people with passions just because they might not succeed at it incorrectly assumes that their non-passion options will lead to more success. I have not found that to be true.

OP here. I am not against following a passion, I did it myself when I was young but I tried to be the really good at it, put in effort and I liked doing the regular work that surrounds that passion. What puzzles me is a young person who claims he likes to write for example, takes a creative writing class in community college and then proceeds to be lazy with drafts and edits, gets a low grade, then either moves on to something else or - much more puzzling - takes creative writing 2 the next year! Why?! If you like writing why don’t you want to put in effort? Yet I see this around me. What is this?!

I want to know too.

Lack of self discipline?
Spoilt brat?
Lazy?
Adhd or asd?
Naive and lack of common sense?

Spoiled is out because one of them is unlike his brothers. Don’t think he was treated differently.
None of them strikes me as naive.
One tested for adhd and he isn’t, the rest were never tested.
Lazy is the only explanation left I guess?

Anonymous wrote:Sigh. I don't know. My daughter is like this. She's 23 and doesn't have a job despite a college degree. Quit the sports that we encouraged her to do. Quit her STEM major for a fluffy arts degree.


FWIW no one else in my family, including me, DW, and DS are like this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She works at a bakery/cafe full time. She has always been someone who would rather NOT try because she's so afraid to fail, not seeing you can fail, regroup and try again. So she's 22 and has taken like three college classes after dropping out of HS and eventually getting a GED. Very sad.

I know someone who went this route and now they are pushing 50 and still live with their parents. They bounced around from various restaurant and retail jobs, moved in with boyfriends/friends in different cities/beach towns when they were younger, but ultimately wound up single, childless, and living with their parents for the bulk of their 30s and 40s.

Hindsight being 20/20, I think they let an anxiety diagnosis be an excuse for never having to work hard and figure things out. When things got hard, they moved on (or moved back with their folks). I hope they will inherit enough money to support themselves because they haven’t been working for a number of years.

It’s sad, but it’s also baffling. They grew up in a nice home in a nice area and went to good schools K-12 (private). No trauma or abuse. Perhaps too much coddling?

This young woman grew up poor and was absolutely NOT coddled. She grew up in a tough area of a city and went to public schools. She rents a room in an apartment and is just earning enough to pay her bills. I think she has zero cc debt but am not positive. She will not inherit any money. What makes me sad is that I know just how smart she is - she could get A's in college with minimal effort.

Some poor people tend to self sabotage in order to stay poor. Sometimes they do well for a while but then something drags them back down - maybe not to the level where they were but still considered poor. I think we all tend to feel most comfortable living the way we used to live as kids (with some exceptions and to some extent of course). -OP

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of the Type A overachievers in DC look at me this way. I have an impressive graduate degree but never lived up to its potential, largely because I just don't like the field it is in and wish I'd just gotten an MFA in writing and become an English teacher like I wanted. I was told by everyone that was a waste of my intelligence and that is never have any money. My younger self was a people pleaser so I got the more impressive (to them) degree but never felt invested and have drifted through my career.

I'm mid-40s now and financially stable but not wealthy, doing a job no one is particularly impressed by. However, I'm a great parent and have a happy life with my family. I *am* a frustrated writer and wish I had more time to debate to that. I've published a few short stories but that's it. I still plug away at it though. Publishing a novel remains my greatest professional dream.

In DC, I think a lot of people view me as a hopeless dreamer. This used to get to me but now I see that plenty of the people who would judge me that way aren't particularly happy or fulfilled. A lot of highly successful careers start to crust over at my age and, aside from the money, don't look so good. Lawyers who still work 70 hour weeks in the 50s and can't take vacations with their kids because of client demands. Corporate careers that feel soulless and empty -- you'll find 20-somethings convinced their start up or corporate employer is going to change the world, people my age know better and understand it's just a job.

So the main downside is that it's hard to get rich as a drifter. But as a hard and reliable worker, I've always had work and I'm not broke either. I am rich in the things you realize in middle age matter most -- kids, good marriage, good friends, art, intellectual.stumulation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She works at a bakery/cafe full time. She has always been someone who would rather NOT try because she's so afraid to fail, not seeing you can fail, regroup and try again. So she's 22 and has taken like three college classes after dropping out of HS and eventually getting a GED. Very sad.

I know someone who went this route and now they are pushing 50 and still live with their parents. They bounced around from various restaurant and retail jobs, moved in with boyfriends/friends in different cities/beach towns when they were younger, but ultimately wound up single, childless, and living with their parents for the bulk of their 30s and 40s.

Hindsight being 20/20, I think they let an anxiety diagnosis be an excuse for never having to work hard and figure things out. When things got hard, they moved on (or moved back with their folks). I hope they will inherit enough money to support themselves because they haven’t been working for a number of years.

It’s sad, but it’s also baffling. They grew up in a nice home in a nice area and went to good schools K-12 (private). No trauma or abuse. Perhaps too much coddling?

This young woman grew up poor and was absolutely NOT coddled. She grew up in a tough area of a city and went to public schools. She rents a room in an apartment and is just earning enough to pay her bills. I think she has zero cc debt but am not positive. She will not inherit any money. What makes me sad is that I know just how smart she is - she could get A's in college with minimal effort.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of the Type A overachievers in DC look at me this way. I have an impressive graduate degree but never lived up to its potential, largely because I just don't like the field it is in and wish I'd just gotten an MFA in writing and become an English teacher like I wanted. I was told by everyone that was a waste of my intelligence and that is never have any money. My younger self was a people pleaser so I got the more impressive (to them) degree but never felt invested and have drifted through my career.

I'm mid-40s now and financially stable but not wealthy, doing a job no one is particularly impressed by. However, I'm a great parent and have a happy life with my family. I *am* a frustrated writer and wish I had more time to debate to that. I've published a few short stories but that's it. I still plug away at it though. Publishing a novel remains my greatest professional dream.

In DC, I think a lot of people view me as a hopeless dreamer. This used to get to me but now I see that plenty of the people who would judge me that way aren't particularly happy or fulfilled. A lot of highly successful careers start to crust over at my age and, aside from the money, don't look so good. Lawyers who still work 70 hour weeks in the 50s and can't take vacations with their kids because of client demands. Corporate careers that feel soulless and empty -- you'll find 20-somethings convinced their start up or corporate employer is going to change the world, people my age know better and understand it's just a job.

So the main downside is that it's hard to get rich as a drifter. But as a hard and reliable worker, I've always had work and I'm not broke either. I am rich in the things you realize in middle age matter most -- kids, good marriage, good friends, art, intellectual.stumulation.

I think you are actually the counter example, you didn’t follow a passion but you worked hard and you are doing well. I am talking more about a situation where you would follow your passion for writing yet not put in much effort and either be a low performer or move on to another passion. But one thing you made me think about - being a not so high performer still doesn’t mean one can’t have a job! -OP

PP here. It would have been better for me to follow my passion, even if I'd never succeeded as a writer. I had a plan (HS English teacher) for making money and being stable, but I wanted an education focused on writing to improve my skills. This was practical but others in my life (parents, siblings, peers) believed I was destined for some impressive corporate/white-collar career and really dissuaded me. As a result I compromised my goals and essentially "failed" at my chosen profession.

I would have been better if failing as a writer (which I have done anyway) but focusing my life on that passion, with a perfectly respectable backup job I know I would have been fine with. I wasted time and effort on a career I just do not care about to please others, and I regret that.

So yes, I'm the opposite of what you are talking about, but I wish I was exactly what you are talking about. Pushing people with artistic passions into fields that aren't artistic, just because these people seem smart, is not a path to success and happiness. For me it's been a path to mediocrity with no more financial pay off than my "passion" plan. Judging people with passions just because they might not succeed at it incorrectly assumes that their non-passion options will lead to more success. I have not found that to be true.

OP here. I am not against following a passion, I did it myself when I was young but I tried to be the really good at it, put in effort and I liked doing the regular work that surrounds that passion. What puzzles me is a young person who claims he likes to write for example, takes a creative writing class in community college and then proceeds to be lazy with drafts and edits, gets a low grade, then either moves on to something else or - much more puzzling - takes creative writing 2 the next year! Why?! If you like writing why don’t you want to put in effort? Yet I see this around me. What is this?!

I want to know too.

Lack of self discipline?
Spoilt brat?
Lazy?
Adhd or asd?
Naive and lack of common sense?

Spoiled is out because one of them is unlike his brothers. Don’t think he was treated differently.
None of them strikes me as naive.
One tested for adhd and he isn’t, the rest were never tested.
Lazy is the only explanation left I guess?

Modest?
Satisfied with a humble life?
Not materialistic?
Smarter than those who think that power, money and greed are values that everyone aspires to?

You sure didn’t put much effort into your list if you didn’t even think of a single one of the above counterpoints. Or maybe you are just not any good at rational thought?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She works at a bakery/cafe full time. She has always been someone who would rather NOT try because she's so afraid to fail, not seeing you can fail, regroup and try again. So she's 22 and has taken like three college classes after dropping out of HS and eventually getting a GED. Very sad.

I know someone who went this route and now they are pushing 50 and still live with their parents. They bounced around from various restaurant and retail jobs, moved in with boyfriends/friends in different cities/beach towns when they were younger, but ultimately wound up single, childless, and living with their parents for the bulk of their 30s and 40s.

Hindsight being 20/20, I think they let an anxiety diagnosis be an excuse for never having to work hard and figure things out. When things got hard, they moved on (or moved back with their folks). I hope they will inherit enough money to support themselves because they haven’t been working for a number of years.

It’s sad, but it’s also baffling. They grew up in a nice home in a nice area and went to good schools K-12 (private). No trauma or abuse. Perhaps too much coddling?

This young woman grew up poor and was absolutely NOT coddled. She grew up in a tough area of a city and went to public schools. She rents a room in an apartment and is just earning enough to pay her bills. I think she has zero cc debt but am not positive. She will not inherit any money. What makes me sad is that I know just how smart she is - she could get A's in college with minimal effort.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of the Type A overachievers in DC look at me this way. I have an impressive graduate degree but never lived up to its potential, largely because I just don't like the field it is in and wish I'd just gotten an MFA in writing and become an English teacher like I wanted. I was told by everyone that was a waste of my intelligence and that is never have any money. My younger self was a people pleaser so I got the more impressive (to them) degree but never felt invested and have drifted through my career.

I'm mid-40s now and financially stable but not wealthy, doing a job no one is particularly impressed by. However, I'm a great parent and have a happy life with my family. I *am* a frustrated writer and wish I had more time to debate to that. I've published a few short stories but that's it. I still plug away at it though. Publishing a novel remains my greatest professional dream.

In DC, I think a lot of people view me as a hopeless dreamer. This used to get to me but now I see that plenty of the people who would judge me that way aren't particularly happy or fulfilled. A lot of highly successful careers start to crust over at my age and, aside from the money, don't look so good. Lawyers who still work 70 hour weeks in the 50s and can't take vacations with their kids because of client demands. Corporate careers that feel soulless and empty -- you'll find 20-somethings convinced their start up or corporate employer is going to change the world, people my age know better and understand it's just a job.

So the main downside is that it's hard to get rich as a drifter. But as a hard and reliable worker, I've always had work and I'm not broke either. I am rich in the things you realize in middle age matter most -- kids, good marriage, good friends, art, intellectual.stumulation.

I think you are actually the counter example, you didn’t follow a passion but you worked hard and you are doing well. I am talking more about a situation where you would follow your passion for writing yet not put in much effort and either be a low performer or move on to another passion. But one thing you made me think about - being a not so high performer still doesn’t mean one can’t have a job! -OP

PP here. It would have been better for me to follow my passion, even if I'd never succeeded as a writer. I had a plan (HS English teacher) for making money and being stable, but I wanted an education focused on writing to improve my skills. This was practical but others in my life (parents, siblings, peers) believed I was destined for some impressive corporate/white-collar career and really dissuaded me. As a result I compromised my goals and essentially "failed" at my chosen profession.

I would have been better if failing as a writer (which I have done anyway) but focusing my life on that passion, with a perfectly respectable backup job I know I would have been fine with. I wasted time and effort on a career I just do not care about to please others, and I regret that.

So yes, I'm the opposite of what you are talking about, but I wish I was exactly what you are talking about. Pushing people with artistic passions into fields that aren't artistic, just because these people seem smart, is not a path to success and happiness. For me it's been a path to mediocrity with no more financial pay off than my "passion" plan. Judging people with passions just because they might not succeed at it incorrectly assumes that their non-passion options will lead to more success. I have not found that to be true.

OP here. I am not against following a passion, I did it myself when I was young but I tried to be the really good at it, put in effort and I liked doing the regular work that surrounds that passion. What puzzles me is a young person who claims he likes to write for example, takes a creative writing class in community college and then proceeds to be lazy with drafts and edits, gets a low grade, then either moves on to something else or - much more puzzling - takes creative writing 2 the next year! Why?! If you like writing why don’t you want to put in effort? Yet I see this around me. What is this?!

I want to know too.

Lack of self discipline?
Spoilt brat?
Lazy?
Adhd or asd?
Naive and lack of common sense?

Spoiled is out because one of them is unlike his brothers. Don’t think he was treated differently.
None of them strikes me as naive.
One tested for adhd and he isn’t, the rest were never tested.
Lazy is the only explanation left I guess?

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure what the problem is?