Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since Michigan admits a huge percentage of its student body with low SAT scores- almost half of all students have an SAT score below 1350. This is from their common data set which shows the 25% at 1360.
https://obp.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/pubdata/cds/CDS_2024-25_UMAA.pdf

But since UMichigan is test optional, only half submit an SAT score. Obviously if you score higher than 1400 you would submit.

So any ED candidate with an SAT above 1400 is pretty much an auto admit.

Half? Do you know what 25th percentile even means?

Yes, since half don't even bother to submit. 25% have below that. But only half submit.

Anonymous wrote:Finished a graduate degree in-state at Michigan. Have a neighbor whose daughter just started at Ross. Her roommate is from the Northeast. Just boggles my mind that the roommate's family is okay probably Paying more than triple. But if you are from a wealthy family, $85K/year is probably lunch money.

Is Michigan an excellent school for the right person? Yes, but the reject in-state students with excellent credentials, and that's not right.it keeps getting worse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s basically a guarantee that the true top kids shooting for HYPSM will continue to apply EA, not ED. But in the current environment, where so many kids want a big school experience, it’s plausible to me that Michigan will steal ED market share from schools like Penn, Cornell, Northwestern, and Duke. To parents prepared to pay those private-school prices, Michigan would look like a bargain. And those kids often come from private schools or affluent neighborhoods where they are under pretty intense pressure to “play their ED card” somewhere. Now they can apply ED to Michigan.

Make sure you talk to current students. I know a lot of unhappy, freshman (academically) with very large classes with lack of access to their advisors. Everyone says it gets better by junior and senior year but that’s a long time away. And socially, much more competitive than people expected

I went to a competitive large state school. Many fresh/soph year classes don’t need to be intimate. It teaches students how to seek access to TA’s and others if needed. Students are still being taught by top profs - there is just less hand-holding. It’s not for everyone but I think great lessons are learned that prepare students for the real world

There’s just no attempt to try and get your kid into classes that are relevant for their interests or their major.

I compare that to a private T10 that my kid chose over Michigan where the advisor checks in individually with my kid every few weeks. By email. Also sends new program ideas their way along with interesting new opportunities to access professors (whether through official programming, small group dinners or otherwise). It is night and day difference.

Yes, if you go to a small private school, then you get a more curated experience. That is what the PP was saying, hence the "no hand holding" comment. The state schools force kids to sink or swim and advocate for themselves. It is more of a real world experience than the curated experience. It doesn't make it better or worse, just different. But for a lot of students, particularly those coming from small private schools, that big school experience is what they want, and Michigan (in addition to a few others) are unique in being top academically and with a cult-like school spirit.

But if it's the same cost? Why would you voluntarily sign up for the lack of resources for the same $$$?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s basically a guarantee that the true top kids shooting for HYPSM will continue to apply EA, not ED. But in the current environment, where so many kids want a big school experience, it’s plausible to me that Michigan will steal ED market share from schools like Penn, Cornell, Northwestern, and Duke. To parents prepared to pay those private-school prices, Michigan would look like a bargain. And those kids often come from private schools or affluent neighborhoods where they are under pretty intense pressure to “play their ED card” somewhere. Now they can apply ED to Michigan.

Make sure you talk to current students. I know a lot of unhappy, freshman (academically) with very large classes with lack of access to their advisors. Everyone says it gets better by junior and senior year but that’s a long time away. And socially, much more competitive than people expected

I went to a competitive large state school. Many fresh/soph year classes don’t need to be intimate. It teaches students how to seek access to TA’s and others if needed. Students are still being taught by top profs - there is just less hand-holding. It’s not for everyone but I think great lessons are learned that prepare students for the real world

There’s just no attempt to try and get your kid into classes that are relevant for their interests or their major.

I compare that to a private T10 that my kid chose over Michigan where the advisor checks in individually with my kid every few weeks. By email. Also sends new program ideas their way along with interesting new opportunities to access professors (whether through official programming, small group dinners or otherwise). It is night and day difference.

This. My brother's daughter is there OOS and wants to study data science and was placed in classes like Eastern European history and Biology of the GI system. Ended up 150+ on the waitlist for the first classes in the data science series and some other math/STEM courses. Other DMV friends had the same exact experience this year with trying to study psychology.
Then the housing can be super old and crappy (many OOS kids did not get placed until a day before classes started this year and there are no on-campus options for sophomore year) and the social scene can be very rough.

But you won't hear this stuff unless you know a freshman or parents really well. Outwardly all is always great! The Big House is awesome! Maise and Blue forever! Social media makes it look like the best place on earth. Honestly, it's kind of like a cult. Behind the scenes the parents I know are beyond frustrated at paying $85K for housing and class scraps.

Sounds like kid is in LSA and as a freshman has history and natural science requirements and picked ones that interested her. Eastern European History and Human Physiology sound logical/interesting to me. This doesn't seem like a problem.

With a class waitlist that long for data science, that suggests there might eventually be another section opened. If I were a parent in that exact situation, I'd have no issue e-mailing a dean to ask why there wasn't an intro class available. You might get good information in reply.

I would agree that Michigan overadmitted for this fall and it's not exactly clear why. Suspect some combo of surprising yield, international student visa issue, and perhaps deliberately wanting to increase class size.

Regarding an advisor alerting you to event opportunities, that's great service, to be sure, but there are lots of ways to get departmental feeds by e-mail, big events are posted on kiosks, there's a centralized calendar at events.umich.edu, etc. In real life, there's no parallel to this advisor setup. If that's what you expect from college, I agree it makes sense to look for a school that offers that.

NP:
I do understand. I just don't think I would tolerate that for $85K a year IF you had other similarly ranked private options. I get that the games are a big draw. It's 12 weeks of the year, though.
Sometimes you don't have other options though so I get it.

You obviously don’t get the school spirit that permeates the campus at Michigan. It’s a HUGE draw that lasts way beyond football season and involves other sports like basketball and hockey.

Since it was brought up:

https://events.umich.edu/

Not sure why you are so defensive?

Great that you (and others) have kids thriving in that environment. I don't think it's for everyone - even with the crazy sports or "school spirit". If it is, great. Hopefully your kid ED'd.

I can understand why school spirit trumps academics. I personally don't think the entire UMich undergrad experience is worth $85k. But that's just me. It's okay that we don't all agree.

Anonymous wrote:When my kid toured Michigan, it sounded like the colleges were reviewed separately and by different criteria. My kid applied kinesiology and needed demonstrated interest activities and classes etc all having to do with kinesiology. it is a much smaller pool of admits so assume more competitive than other majors. But guessing they care more about science grades than English, for example.

Is that not the case? This thread makes it sound like all the schools are reviewed together. If separate, would guess scores needed for LSA could be different from engineering, for example.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s basically a guarantee that the true top kids shooting for HYPSM will continue to apply EA, not ED. But in the current environment, where so many kids want a big school experience, it’s plausible to me that Michigan will steal ED market share from schools like Penn, Cornell, Northwestern, and Duke. To parents prepared to pay those private-school prices, Michigan would look like a bargain. And those kids often come from private schools or affluent neighborhoods where they are under pretty intense pressure to “play their ED card” somewhere. Now they can apply ED to Michigan.

Make sure you talk to current students. I know a lot of unhappy, freshman (academically) with very large classes with lack of access to their advisors. Everyone says it gets better by junior and senior year but that’s a long time away. And socially, much more competitive than people expected

I went to a competitive large state school. Many fresh/soph year classes don’t need to be intimate. It teaches students how to seek access to TA’s and others if needed. Students are still being taught by top profs - there is just less hand-holding. It’s not for everyone but I think great lessons are learned that prepare students for the real world

There’s just no attempt to try and get your kid into classes that are relevant for their interests or their major.

I compare that to a private T10 that my kid chose over Michigan where the advisor checks in individually with my kid every few weeks. By email. Also sends new program ideas their way along with interesting new opportunities to access professors (whether through official programming, small group dinners or otherwise). It is night and day difference.

This. My brother's daughter is there OOS and wants to study data science and was placed in classes like Eastern European history and Biology of the GI system. Ended up 150+ on the waitlist for the first classes in the data science series and some other math/STEM courses. Other DMV friends had the same exact experience this year with trying to study psychology.
Then the housing can be super old and crappy (many OOS kids did not get placed until a day before classes started this year and there are no on-campus options for sophomore year) and the social scene can be very rough.

But you won't hear this stuff unless you know a freshman or parents really well. Outwardly all is always great! The Big House is awesome! Maise and Blue forever! Social media makes it look like the best place on earth. Honestly, it's kind of like a cult. Behind the scenes the parents I know are beyond frustrated at paying $85K for housing and class scraps.

Sounds like kid is in LSA and as a freshman has history and natural science requirements and picked ones that interested her. Eastern European History and Human Physiology sound logical/interesting to me. This doesn't seem like a problem.

With a class waitlist that long for data science, that suggests there might eventually be another section opened. If I were a parent in that exact situation, I'd have no issue e-mailing a dean to ask why there wasn't an intro class available. You might get good information in reply.

I would agree that Michigan overadmitted for this fall and it's not exactly clear why. Suspect some combo of surprising yield, international student visa issue, and perhaps deliberately wanting to increase class size.

Regarding an advisor alerting you to event opportunities, that's great service, to be sure, but there are lots of ways to get departmental feeds by e-mail, big events are posted on kiosks, there's a centralized calendar at events.umich.edu, etc. In real life, there's no parallel to this advisor setup. If that's what you expect from college, I agree it makes sense to look for a school that offers that.

NP:
I do understand. I just don't think I would tolerate that for $85K a year IF you had other similarly ranked private options. I get that the games are a big draw. It's 12 weeks of the year, though.
Sometimes you don't have other options though so I get it.

You obviously don’t get the school spirit that permeates the campus at Michigan. It’s a HUGE draw that lasts way beyond football season and involves other sports like basketball and hockey.

Since it was brought up:

https://events.umich.edu/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s basically a guarantee that the true top kids shooting for HYPSM will continue to apply EA, not ED. But in the current environment, where so many kids want a big school experience, it’s plausible to me that Michigan will steal ED market share from schools like Penn, Cornell, Northwestern, and Duke. To parents prepared to pay those private-school prices, Michigan would look like a bargain. And those kids often come from private schools or affluent neighborhoods where they are under pretty intense pressure to “play their ED card” somewhere. Now they can apply ED to Michigan.

Make sure you talk to current students. I know a lot of unhappy, freshman (academically) with very large classes with lack of access to their advisors. Everyone says it gets better by junior and senior year but that’s a long time away. And socially, much more competitive than people expected

I went to a competitive large state school. Many fresh/soph year classes don’t need to be intimate. It teaches students how to seek access to TA’s and others if needed. Students are still being taught by top profs - there is just less hand-holding. It’s not for everyone but I think great lessons are learned that prepare students for the real world

There’s just no attempt to try and get your kid into classes that are relevant for their interests or their major.

I compare that to a private T10 that my kid chose over Michigan where the advisor checks in individually with my kid every few weeks. By email. Also sends new program ideas their way along with interesting new opportunities to access professors (whether through official programming, small group dinners or otherwise). It is night and day difference.

This. My brother's daughter is there OOS and wants to study data science and was placed in classes like Eastern European history and Biology of the GI system. Ended up 150+ on the waitlist for the first classes in the data science series and some other math/STEM courses. Other DMV friends had the same exact experience this year with trying to study psychology.
Then the housing can be super old and crappy (many OOS kids did not get placed until a day before classes started this year and there are no on-campus options for sophomore year) and the social scene can be very rough.

But you won't hear this stuff unless you know a freshman or parents really well. Outwardly all is always great! The Big House is awesome! Maise and Blue forever! Social media makes it look like the best place on earth. Honestly, it's kind of like a cult. Behind the scenes the parents I know are beyond frustrated at paying $85K for housing and class scraps.

Sounds like kid is in LSA and as a freshman has history and natural science requirements and picked ones that interested her. Eastern European History and Human Physiology sound logical/interesting to me. This doesn't seem like a problem.

With a class waitlist that long for data science, that suggests there might eventually be another section opened. If I were a parent in that exact situation, I'd have no issue e-mailing a dean to ask why there wasn't an intro class available. You might get good information in reply.

I would agree that Michigan overadmitted for this fall and it's not exactly clear why. Suspect some combo of surprising yield, international student visa issue, and perhaps deliberately wanting to increase class size.

Regarding an advisor alerting you to event opportunities, that's great service, to be sure, but there are lots of ways to get departmental feeds by e-mail, big events are posted on kiosks, there's a centralized calendar at events.umich.edu, etc. In real life, there's no parallel to this advisor setup. If that's what you expect from college, I agree it makes sense to look for a school that offers that.

NP:
I do understand. I just don't think I would tolerate that for $85K a year IF you had other similarly ranked private options. I get that the games are a big draw. It's 12 weeks of the year, though.
Sometimes you don't have other options though so I get it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Feel free to ask me about how my OOS kid is doing there.

Housing - The kids who didn't get housing until right before school came from the waitlist later on. Everyone who was accepted during the regular time frame had housing. This is not uncommon with waitlists. We heard about it happening at other schools. There is some space for sophomores on campus (one dorm is primaly sophomore) and a new building is openning up before next year making more space for sophomore. Many kids want to live in apartments, however, so this shouldn't be a huge issue.

Classes - My freshman is in all their first choice classes and all related to their major or other requirements. They've met with their advisor several times and have a plan and a backup plan for next semester. The only super large class they have has a discussion section and it's fine.

Socially - They are doing great! They have friends from MI, NJ, NY, Cali and even have met some other VA kids. They have a great group of peers and haven't encountered snobbery or competitiveness. Note, they are not in Ross. They found it easy to join clubs and have been having a great time. Ann Arbor is a great place to be at 18!

Agree with this. My DC got his preferred/requested classes every time. It helped that he had a year of AP credit which gave him sophomore status after the first semester but no problems getting classes. Some large classes freshman year but all with small discussion groups. Many small classes junior/senior year.

DC was admitted EA since it was before the ED option. Since someone mentioned Wash U, DC picked Michigan over Wash U, among others (although financial aid not a factor).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s basically a guarantee that the true top kids shooting for HYPSM will continue to apply EA, not ED. But in the current environment, where so many kids want a big school experience, it’s plausible to me that Michigan will steal ED market share from schools like Penn, Cornell, Northwestern, and Duke. To parents prepared to pay those private-school prices, Michigan would look like a bargain. And those kids often come from private schools or affluent neighborhoods where they are under pretty intense pressure to “play their ED card” somewhere. Now they can apply ED to Michigan.

Make sure you talk to current students. I know a lot of unhappy, freshman (academically) with very large classes with lack of access to their advisors. Everyone says it gets better by junior and senior year but that’s a long time away. And socially, much more competitive than people expected

I went to a competitive large state school. Many fresh/soph year classes don’t need to be intimate. It teaches students how to seek access to TA’s and others if needed. Students are still being taught by top profs - there is just less hand-holding. It’s not for everyone but I think great lessons are learned that prepare students for the real world

There’s just no attempt to try and get your kid into classes that are relevant for their interests or their major.

I compare that to a private T10 that my kid chose over Michigan where the advisor checks in individually with my kid every few weeks. By email. Also sends new program ideas their way along with interesting new opportunities to access professors (whether through official programming, small group dinners or otherwise). It is night and day difference.

Yes, if you go to a small private school, then you get a more curated experience. That is what the PP was saying, hence the "no hand holding" comment. The state schools force kids to sink or swim and advocate for themselves. It is more of a real world experience than the curated experience. It doesn't make it better or worse, just different. But for a lot of students, particularly those coming from small private schools, that big school experience is what they want, and Michigan (in addition to a few others) are unique in being top academically and with a cult-like school spirit.

But if it's the same cost? Why would you voluntarily sign up for the lack of resources for the same $$$?

Because Michigan is the best of both worlds - top academic programs across the board, a top 5 college town and a top 5 sports/school spirit experience. Not many other schools in the country can match this.

Cal - doesn't have the sports/spirit
UCLA - doesn't have the college town, though Westwood is nice for those who want that type of experience

the schools that are sort of on par
UNC- more of a basketball only school
Texas - right up there with Michigan in many respects, but Austin is a state capital/much bigger than just the school
Wisconsin - same as Texas though Madison is one of the best college towns in the country. football team isn't good this year

the SEC schools are generally not as good academically
Norhtwestern, Stanford and Vandy are private schools with more of a private school experience.

Anonymous wrote:Just curious: what schools did your kids apply to in EA or ED? Assuming the Ross applicants are not read against the Kinesiology applicant, right?

Also, isn’t Michigan very high stats from OOS? Someone mentioned a 3.6 GPA and 1400 as a cut off? Didn’t think that was even close to realistic unless you are in state?

TIA.

Anonymous wrote:Since Michigan admits a huge percentage of its student body with low SAT scores- almost half of all students have an SAT score below 1350. This is from their common data set which shows the 25% at 1360.
https://obp.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/pubdata/cds/CDS_2024-25_UMAA.pdf

But since UMichigan is test optional, only half submit an SAT score. Obviously if you score higher than 1400 you would submit.

So any ED candidate with an SAT above 1400 is pretty much an auto admit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s basically a guarantee that the true top kids shooting for HYPSM will continue to apply EA, not ED. But in the current environment, where so many kids want a big school experience, it’s plausible to me that Michigan will steal ED market share from schools like Penn, Cornell, Northwestern, and Duke. To parents prepared to pay those private-school prices, Michigan would look like a bargain. And those kids often come from private schools or affluent neighborhoods where they are under pretty intense pressure to “play their ED card” somewhere. Now they can apply ED to Michigan.

Make sure you talk to current students. I know a lot of unhappy, freshman (academically) with very large classes with lack of access to their advisors. Everyone says it gets better by junior and senior year but that’s a long time away. And socially, much more competitive than people expected

I went to a competitive large state school. Many fresh/soph year classes don’t need to be intimate. It teaches students how to seek access to TA’s and others if needed. Students are still being taught by top profs - there is just less hand-holding. It’s not for everyone but I think great lessons are learned that prepare students for the real world

There’s just no attempt to try and get your kid into classes that are relevant for their interests or their major.

I compare that to a private T10 that my kid chose over Michigan where the advisor checks in individually with my kid every few weeks. By email. Also sends new program ideas their way along with interesting new opportunities to access professors (whether through official programming, small group dinners or otherwise). It is night and day difference.

Yes, if you go to a small private school, then you get a more curated experience. That is what the PP was saying, hence the "no hand holding" comment. The state schools force kids to sink or swim and advocate for themselves. It is more of a real world experience than the curated experience. It doesn't make it better or worse, just different. But for a lot of students, particularly those coming from small private schools, that big school experience is what they want, and Michigan (in addition to a few others) are unique in being top academically and with a cult-like school spirit.

But if it's the same cost? Why would you voluntarily sign up for the lack of resources for the same $$$?