Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what people mean when they talk about kids being weeded out of pre-med classes. Tons of kids plan to go pre-med, but do not get there because STEM does not come easy to them. There's no reason to fight your own strengths. Why not encourage your child to try another area where your child may naturally be stronger?

~ 80 % of premed students don’t make it to medical school. You can still pursue nursing/teaching careers , though.
For docs IQ range is 105- 125 or so on average. Below that problems arise.

That's quite low. Imagine being treated by someone with 105 ...

Because it is total made-up BS. Every single kid in my med school was in the gifted program (usually 93-95th%ile) or at some fancy test-in private school as a kid, and I did not go to a T10med like wife did. We came from colleges all over, elite and non, but we were all high achieving students in high school.
My med school admissions consulting group advises dozens of students every year and we recently started sharing masked data with a similar group who does it in the Boston area. We get SAT and PSAT scores, AP, and the undergrad transcript as a part of our MCAT-prep recommendations. The borderline kids usually have MCAT 495-505 on the first attempt and have already been through a rejection cycle. Their most common SAT range for this group is mid to high 1300s or about 92-95%ile, with PSAT is usually above 90th%ile sometimes lower. PSAT as an onetime non superscore often hints they will have Mcat trouble more than the SAT. These are the borderline kids over half of which will never get in to med school even with our services. SAT is not an IQ test but there is some correlation. 92-95percentile is not an IQ of 105 (63rd percentile).
Top kids (515+) who only want essay editing and interview coaching almost always had 1500+ on the SAT (ie 98-99 percentile/IQ likely 125-140+). Those kids get in to at least one med school no problem, they just want to go to the top med schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes - the college has peer tutoring. He has tried that but it's hit and miss. Will tell him to keep trying and also considering an outside tutor for a boost of confidence.

OP as one who had a DS in the same situation last year- right down to the rigorous private and the doing OK in calculus 1- I will add this.

Your support for an outside tutor is great. Tell him you will pay for it so he has no excuse. But do not under any circumstances let him whine too much about this and do not let him drop the class. Unless you want to teach him to turn tail the minute things get “hard” in life.

I’m not sure it’s that simple. Calc 2 is really difficult for a lot of kids. If gos professor isn’t a good fit that will exacerbate the issue. He may need to commit to putting a ton of time into this class - daily like several hours. My DS’ school has open tutoring times with the TAs for calc 2. He needs to go regularly, he needs a study group and he needs a high quality tutor.

And with all that he may still not do fabulously. These classes are called weeder classes for a reason and the reason a lot of people drop pre-med. there’s no shame in switching gears if you realize you don’t have the acumen to excel on these classes and it also takes a lot of maturity and self discipline for a young college student who may not be a natural with this material to put in the kind of hours of study and outside efforts they would need to do to be successful.

it is really easy or at least fairly easy for the vast majority who become doctors. That is the issue here. OP's kid appears to be not on the track that is most likely to end up in med school. It could happen, but the odds are currently stacking against.

Did you do a survey on all the doctors? Did vast majority tell you they breeze through Calc without putting in a lot of work? without adjusting math study habit?

NP. It's not that it's not "hard" for students who go on to become successful doctors. But the ones I know say that it generally made sense to them in a way that calculus does not for many of us. Yes, they had to study and it was hard, but they got it.

BTW, many med schools require going through Calc 4 in undergrad. So, if OP's son is not willing to put in the work now, he's never going to make it.

+++ I went to a top undergrad which sent a higher % than most schools to med. People who did not make it call this school cutthroat. Those of us who made it thought it was fair but challenging and taught us how to work hard.
The students who found calc hard as in difficult, with lots of studying, to get above the mean on midterms did not end up making it to med school, they as they struggled to be above the mean in chem, physics too. Those who found it "hard" because they studied a lot yet still got above the mean or way above, were not really struggling with concepts of calc they were just being challenged by difficult psets. If OP means truly struggling with concepts and NOT able to be above the means then it does not bode well for med school

What is calc 4 even? Calc 3 is multivariable. Usually that's followed by linear algebra. The next 'calculus' course in the undergrad math curriculum would be real analysis, which you need to enter an econ PhD program but definitely not for need school. Stop fear mongering.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what people mean when they talk about kids being weeded out of pre-med classes. Tons of kids plan to go pre-med, but do not get there because STEM does not come easy to them. There's no reason to fight your own strengths. Why not encourage your child to try another area where your child may naturally be stronger?

~ 80 % of premed students don’t make it to medical school. You can still pursue nursing/teaching careers , though.
For docs IQ range is 105- 125 or so on average. Below that problems arise.

So odd to me that anyone posts about IQ as if it were meaningful. And these numbers are… not far outside the mean.

My IQ was tested at 140, and while I’m smart in some ways (National merit scholarship, learn languages well), I’m certain I’d have failed Calc2 as an undergrad.

Someone with an IQ of 160 or above is probably really bright, but much below that I wouldn’t pay attention to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes - the college has peer tutoring. He has tried that but it's hit and miss. Will tell him to keep trying and also considering an outside tutor for a boost of confidence.

OP as one who had a DS in the same situation last year- right down to the rigorous private and the doing OK in calculus 1- I will add this.

Your support for an outside tutor is great. Tell him you will pay for it so he has no excuse. But do not under any circumstances let him whine too much about this and do not let him drop the class. Unless you want to teach him to turn tail the minute things get “hard” in life.

I’m not sure it’s that simple. Calc 2 is really difficult for a lot of kids. If gos professor isn’t a good fit that will exacerbate the issue. He may need to commit to putting a ton of time into this class - daily like several hours. My DS’ school has open tutoring times with the TAs for calc 2. He needs to go regularly, he needs a study group and he needs a high quality tutor.

And with all that he may still not do fabulously. These classes are called weeder classes for a reason and the reason a lot of people drop pre-med. there’s no shame in switching gears if you realize you don’t have the acumen to excel on these classes and it also takes a lot of maturity and self discipline for a young college student who may not be a natural with this material to put in the kind of hours of study and outside efforts they would need to do to be successful.

it is really easy or at least fairly easy for the vast majority who become doctors. That is the issue here. OP's kid appears to be not on the track that is most likely to end up in med school. It could happen, but the odds are currently stacking against.

Did you do a survey on all the doctors? Did vast majority tell you they breeze through Calc without putting in a lot of work? without adjusting math study habit?

NP. It's not that it's not "hard" for students who go on to become successful doctors. But the ones I know say that it generally made sense to them in a way that calculus does not for many of us. Yes, they had to study and it was hard, but they got it.

BTW, many med schools require going through Calc 4 in undergrad. So, if OP's son is not willing to put in the work now, he's never going to make it.

Completely false!
No medical school requires Cal4.

Just stop! Why the fxck you are doing this?
Weirdo.

Agree that this is a complete lie. This is a weirdo who continually makes up lies like this with authority "oh, yes, you need to have linear algebra in 9th grade or Harvad will outright deny you."
Go away.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what people mean when they talk about kids being weeded out of pre-med classes. Tons of kids plan to go pre-med, but do not get there because STEM does not come easy to them. There's no reason to fight your own strengths. Why not encourage your child to try another area where your child may naturally be stronger?

~ 80 % of premed students don’t make it to medical school. You can still pursue nursing/teaching careers , though.
For docs IQ range is 105- 125 or so on average. Below that problems arise.

That's quite low. Imagine being treated by someone with 105 ...

Anonymous wrote:This is what people mean when they talk about kids being weeded out of pre-med classes. Tons of kids plan to go pre-med, but do not get there because STEM does not come easy to them. There's no reason to fight your own strengths. Why not encourage your child to try another area where your child may naturally be stronger?

~ 80 % of premed students don’t make it to medical school. You can still pursue nursing/teaching careers , though.
For docs IQ range is 105- 125 or so on average. Below that problems arise.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes - the college has peer tutoring. He has tried that but it's hit and miss. Will tell him to keep trying and also considering an outside tutor for a boost of confidence.

OP as one who had a DS in the same situation last year- right down to the rigorous private and the doing OK in calculus 1- I will add this.

Your support for an outside tutor is great. Tell him you will pay for it so he has no excuse. But do not under any circumstances let him whine too much about this and do not let him drop the class. Unless you want to teach him to turn tail the minute things get “hard” in life.

I’m not sure it’s that simple. Calc 2 is really difficult for a lot of kids. If gos professor isn’t a good fit that will exacerbate the issue. He may need to commit to putting a ton of time into this class - daily like several hours. My DS’ school has open tutoring times with the TAs for calc 2. He needs to go regularly, he needs a study group and he needs a high quality tutor.

And with all that he may still not do fabulously. These classes are called weeder classes for a reason and the reason a lot of people drop pre-med. there’s no shame in switching gears if you realize you don’t have the acumen to excel on these classes and it also takes a lot of maturity and self discipline for a young college student who may not be a natural with this material to put in the kind of hours of study and outside efforts they would need to do to be successful.

it is really easy or at least fairly easy for the vast majority who become doctors. That is the issue here. OP's kid appears to be not on the track that is most likely to end up in med school. It could happen, but the odds are currently stacking against.

Did you do a survey on all the doctors? Did vast majority tell you they breeze through Calc without putting in a lot of work? without adjusting math study habit?

NP. It's not that it's not "hard" for students who go on to become successful doctors. But the ones I know say that it generally made sense to them in a way that calculus does not for many of us. Yes, they had to study and it was hard, but they got it.

BTW, many med schools require going through Calc 4 in undergrad. So, if OP's son is not willing to put in the work now, he's never going to make it.

Completely false!
No medical school requires Cal4.

Just stop! Why the fxck you are doing this?
Weirdo.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes - the college has peer tutoring. He has tried that but it's hit and miss. Will tell him to keep trying and also considering an outside tutor for a boost of confidence.

OP as one who had a DS in the same situation last year- right down to the rigorous private and the doing OK in calculus 1- I will add this.

Your support for an outside tutor is great. Tell him you will pay for it so he has no excuse. But do not under any circumstances let him whine too much about this and do not let him drop the class. Unless you want to teach him to turn tail the minute things get “hard” in life.

I’m not sure it’s that simple. Calc 2 is really difficult for a lot of kids. If gos professor isn’t a good fit that will exacerbate the issue. He may need to commit to putting a ton of time into this class - daily like several hours. My DS’ school has open tutoring times with the TAs for calc 2. He needs to go regularly, he needs a study group and he needs a high quality tutor.

And with all that he may still not do fabulously. These classes are called weeder classes for a reason and the reason a lot of people drop pre-med. there’s no shame in switching gears if you realize you don’t have the acumen to excel on these classes and it also takes a lot of maturity and self discipline for a young college student who may not be a natural with this material to put in the kind of hours of study and outside efforts they would need to do to be successful.

it is really easy or at least fairly easy for the vast majority who become doctors. That is the issue here. OP's kid appears to be not on the track that is most likely to end up in med school. It could happen, but the odds are currently stacking against.

Did you do a survey on all the doctors? Did vast majority tell you they breeze through Calc without putting in a lot of work? without adjusting math study habit?

NP. It's not that it's not "hard" for students who go on to become successful doctors. But the ones I know say that it generally made sense to them in a way that calculus does not for many of us. Yes, they had to study and it was hard, but they got it.

BTW, many med schools require going through Calc 4 in undergrad. So, if OP's son is not willing to put in the work now, he's never going to make it.

Anonymous wrote:He needs a study group, to go to office hours and to do tons and tons of problems. You learn calc by doing problems.

Good advice

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes - the college has peer tutoring. He has tried that but it's hit and miss. Will tell him to keep trying and also considering an outside tutor for a boost of confidence.

OP as one who had a DS in the same situation last year- right down to the rigorous private and the doing OK in calculus 1- I will add this.

Your support for an outside tutor is great. Tell him you will pay for it so he has no excuse. But do not under any circumstances let him whine too much about this and do not let him drop the class. Unless you want to teach him to turn tail the minute things get “hard” in life.

I’m not sure it’s that simple. Calc 2 is really difficult for a lot of kids. If gos professor isn’t a good fit that will exacerbate the issue. He may need to commit to putting a ton of time into this class - daily like several hours. My DS’ school has open tutoring times with the TAs for calc 2. He needs to go regularly, he needs a study group and he needs a high quality tutor.

And with all that he may still not do fabulously. These classes are called weeder classes for a reason and the reason a lot of people drop pre-med. there’s no shame in switching gears if you realize you don’t have the acumen to excel on these classes and it also takes a lot of maturity and self discipline for a young college student who may not be a natural with this material to put in the kind of hours of study and outside efforts they would need to do to be successful.

it is really easy or at least fairly easy for the vast majority who become doctors. That is the issue here. OP's kid appears to be not on the track that is most likely to end up in med school. It could happen, but the odds are currently stacking against.

Did you do a survey on all the doctors? Did vast majority tell you they breeze through Calc without putting in a lot of work? without adjusting math study habit?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes - the college has peer tutoring. He has tried that but it's hit and miss. Will tell him to keep trying and also considering an outside tutor for a boost of confidence.

OP as one who had a DS in the same situation last year- right down to the rigorous private and the doing OK in calculus 1- I will add this.

Your support for an outside tutor is great. Tell him you will pay for it so he has no excuse. But do not under any circumstances let him whine too much about this and do not let him drop the class. Unless you want to teach him to turn tail the minute things get “hard” in life.

I’m not sure it’s that simple. Calc 2 is really difficult for a lot of kids. If gos professor isn’t a good fit that will exacerbate the issue. He may need to commit to putting a ton of time into this class - daily like several hours. My DS’ school has open tutoring times with the TAs for calc 2. He needs to go regularly, he needs a study group and he needs a high quality tutor.

And with all that he may still not do fabulously. These classes are called weeder classes for a reason and the reason a lot of people drop pre-med. there’s no shame in switching gears if you realize you don’t have the acumen to excel on these classes and it also takes a lot of maturity and self discipline for a young college student who may not be a natural with this material to put in the kind of hours of study and outside efforts they would need to do to be successful.

it is really easy or at least fairly easy for the vast majority who become doctors. That is the issue here. OP's kid appears to be not on the track that is most likely to end up in med school. It could happen, but the odds are currently stacking against.

Disagree. It’s hard for most, even those that become doctors. Get a tutor and be persistent in working problems and seeking out help whenever you run into something you can’t work out. That’s the only way forward with a good grade.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He needs to do daily drills. A lot of drills. To many smart people, Calculus is not intuitive and straightforward like precalc. Unless you are a natural, he needs to practice, practice, practice.

Get him a really good tutor to support him.

Precalculus is only "intuitive and straightforward" when the rigorous material is skipped and deferred to calculus class, where the course assumes it was already learned during precalc.

My kid had a hard time in precalc, but did just fine through calc.

My experience with Calc 2 is that it went from “study the night before the test and get an A” (as had been the case in all prior math classes) to “first D ever” in the span of about 3 weeks. Like hitting a brick wall. He may just be reaching a level of math that requires much more work from him than what has gone before and needs to adjust.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes - the college has peer tutoring. He has tried that but it's hit and miss. Will tell him to keep trying and also considering an outside tutor for a boost of confidence.

OP as one who had a DS in the same situation last year- right down to the rigorous private and the doing OK in calculus 1- I will add this.

Your support for an outside tutor is great. Tell him you will pay for it so he has no excuse. But do not under any circumstances let him whine too much about this and do not let him drop the class. Unless you want to teach him to turn tail the minute things get “hard” in life.

I’m not sure it’s that simple. Calc 2 is really difficult for a lot of kids. If gos professor isn’t a good fit that will exacerbate the issue. He may need to commit to putting a ton of time into this class - daily like several hours. My DS’ school has open tutoring times with the TAs for calc 2. He needs to go regularly, he needs a study group and he needs a high quality tutor.

And with all that he may still not do fabulously. These classes are called weeder classes for a reason and the reason a lot of people drop pre-med. there’s no shame in switching gears if you realize you don’t have the acumen to excel on these classes and it also takes a lot of maturity and self discipline for a young college student who may not be a natural with this material to put in the kind of hours of study and outside efforts they would need to do to be successful.

it is really easy or at least fairly easy for the vast majority who become doctors. That is the issue here. OP's kid appears to be not on the track that is most likely to end up in med school. It could happen, but the odds are currently stacking against.