Why do I eat chocolate cake? Because I like it and it’s a way to celebrate on occasion.

Americans drink less alcohol than ever before and we’re sicker than ever.

So maybe it’s not the alcohol.

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Anonymous wrote:With all the information about alcohol causing cancer, Parkinson’s, wrinkles, anxiety, why do you still drink it? What makes you risk your health? Does it make you feel so good that it’s worth the risks?

Do you go outside or eat grilled food? The sun, air pollution, and grill also increase your risk of cancer, wrinkles etc. The sun provides vitamin D and grilled meat provides low fat protein. Similarly, alcohol provides a social ritual that has brought people together for over millenia - even Jesus broke bread and had wine with apostles. BTW - strong community ties are demonstrated to have the biggest impact on health. Why would you forego the obvious?

Don't bring Jesus into this as an excuse for showing up to church with a hang over.

Part of the reason these Prohibitionist threads get a little tiresome are the strawman assertions that drinking equals drunkenness. There’s a lot of ground between an occasional glass of wine and a hangover.

Absolutely.

But the people who argue most aggressively that everyone should stop talking about the real health risks of drinking aren't arguing for an occasional glass of wine with a meal. They wax poetic about the social benefits and while I don't think most are advocating for binge drinking, it's pretty obvious they just want to have fun and get buzzed without someone nagging them about the health risks. Nobody REALLY thinks it's good for you, some people think that a small amount might be, kind of good for you, but the recommended amount to have health benefits is currently 2 drinks a day for men, and 1 for women, and that's the number set by industry lobbyists, the scientists who think there may be health benefits suggest 1 drink a day for men and less than 1 for women.

If you are genuinely advocating for the idea that 3x a week, we all have a glass of wine with dinner, I can get on board. But that's not what most of the Booze Crew here are talking about, are they?

In no way is drinking alcohol daily moderate. The few people I know who drink daily never stop at one drink.

One drink relaxes me, two make me tipsy, but whenever I stupidly do a third I’m throwing up. I generally stick to one.

I don’t understand people who throw up after 3 drinks and keep drinking. There is something wrong with you if this is happening and you should stop.

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Anonymous wrote:With all the information about alcohol causing cancer, Parkinson’s, wrinkles, anxiety, why do you still drink it? What makes you risk your health? Does it make you feel so good that it’s worth the risks?

Do you go outside or eat grilled food? The sun, air pollution, and grill also increase your risk of cancer, wrinkles etc. The sun provides vitamin D and grilled meat provides low fat protein. Similarly, alcohol provides a social ritual that has brought people together for over millenia - even Jesus broke bread and had wine with apostles. BTW - strong community ties are demonstrated to have the biggest impact on health. Why would you forego the obvious?

Don't bring Jesus into this as an excuse for showing up to church with a hang over.

Part of the reason these Prohibitionist threads get a little tiresome are the strawman assertions that drinking equals drunkenness. There’s a lot of ground between an occasional glass of wine and a hangover.

Absolutely.

But the people who argue most aggressively that everyone should stop talking about the real health risks of drinking aren't arguing for an occasional glass of wine with a meal. They wax poetic about the social benefits and while I don't think most are advocating for binge drinking, it's pretty obvious they just want to have fun and get buzzed without someone nagging them about the health risks. Nobody REALLY thinks it's good for you, some people think that a small amount might be, kind of good for you, but the recommended amount to have health benefits is currently 2 drinks a day for men, and 1 for women, and that's the number set by industry lobbyists, the scientists who think there may be health benefits suggest 1 drink a day for men and less than 1 for women.

If you are genuinely advocating for the idea that 3x a week, we all have a glass of wine with dinner, I can get on board. But that's not what most of the Booze Crew here are talking about, are they?

In no way is drinking alcohol daily moderate. The few people I know who drink daily never stop at one drink.

One drink relaxes me, two make me tipsy, but whenever I stupidly do a third I’m throwing up. I generally stick to one.

Anonymous wrote:And yet I go to the beach once a summer and from my spot under an umbrella I watch a wave of humanity that is obese and sunburned and still standing out in the sun all day with their kids looking the same.

I don’t know OP. Alcohol is just one thing. Humans don’t always do the “right” things. Why focus on alcohol is my question. How do you even pick that out as the issue to get indignant about.

Of course humans don't always do the right things, but i don't understand your point.

There are fat people getting sunburned at the beach... and we all know that obesity is REALLY bad for you and seriously shortens your lifespan, and the costs of diabetes and poor obesity-related health cost us all a lot of money! And we all know that being outside in the sun without serious sun protection DOES lead to skin cancer! Those are BAD things!

Nobody is saying the world doesn't have any problems except for alcohol-linked cancer! And more than one thing can be problematic at the same time! And sometimes the problems can be connected—alcohol consumption is definitely a contributing factor for obesity in a lot of Americans!

Why focus on alcohol in particular? Well, because we now have new research showing there are genuine and serious health risks we didn't previously know about! That's like asking why do you sit under an umbrella at the beach—why are you focusing on protecting yourself from UV rays? Because (I presume) it's something you know is important to do for your own health.

How do we focus on that to get indignant about? Well, I don't think anyone except for the booze hounds arguing that no one can tell them to stop drinking is indignant, but we choose it because there's new research about it. We've learned something new, so now it's time to think about what it means!

No one is suggesting that we should drop all our concern about other things like obesity, skin cancer, tobacco, etc., we're just saying now that we know more about the risks, it's time people start thinking about it.

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Anonymous wrote:My non drinking mom died of cancer.

My non drinking aunt has Parkinson’s.

Life is too short.

Those genes are a good reason not to drink.

PP and my drinking, smoking grandmothers lived to nearly 90.

I know we’d all like to think we can control things, but we don’t.

+1 My drinking, smoking grandmothers lived into their 90s before dying of Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s. The one with Alzheimer’s only quit smoking because she forgot she smoked. My dad had an old fashioned almost every night and died at 85 with glioblastoma which all his doctors insisted had nothing to do with moderate alcohol consumption.

considering the recent developments in connecting alcohol to cancer, i wouldn't put too much weight into what your dad's doctors said.

also, you clearly understand that just because your grandmothers smoked and didn't die of lung cancer it's not particularly meaningful. my grandmother smoked and DID die of lung cancer. they're both anecdotal and not really useful.

actual research shows an undeniable cancer link. more research is needed, but it's pretty well established that alcohol is like tobacco--some people may not develop cancer, but there is also no threshold of consumption under which you dont' have a cancer risk.

your grandmothers sound lucky, your father... who can say because the research is new and developing.

My father died last year, there’s very little glioblastoma research that has occurred since that we didn’t know about then. Plus, glioblastoma can strike anyone at any age or level of healthiness and definitely doesn’t only happen to drinkers.

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Anonymous wrote:With all the information about alcohol causing cancer, Parkinson’s, wrinkles, anxiety, why do you still drink it? What makes you risk your health? Does it make you feel so good that it’s worth the risks?

Do you go outside or eat grilled food? The sun, air pollution, and grill also increase your risk of cancer, wrinkles etc. The sun provides vitamin D and grilled meat provides low fat protein. Similarly, alcohol provides a social ritual that has brought people together for over millenia - even Jesus broke bread and had wine with apostles. BTW - strong community ties are demonstrated to have the biggest impact on health. Why would you forego the obvious?

Don't bring Jesus into this as an excuse for showing up to church with a hang over.

Part of the reason these Prohibitionist threads get a little tiresome are the strawman assertions that drinking equals drunkenness. There’s a lot of ground between an occasional glass of wine and a hangover.

Absolutely.

But the people who argue most aggressively that everyone should stop talking about the real health risks of drinking aren't arguing for an occasional glass of wine with a meal. They wax poetic about the social benefits and while I don't think most are advocating for binge drinking, it's pretty obvious they just want to have fun and get buzzed without someone nagging them about the health risks. Nobody REALLY thinks it's good for you, some people think that a small amount might be, kind of good for you, but the recommended amount to have health benefits is currently 2 drinks a day for men, and 1 for women, and that's the number set by industry lobbyists, the scientists who think there may be health benefits suggest 1 drink a day for men and less than 1 for women.

If you are genuinely advocating for the idea that 3x a week, we all have a glass of wine with dinner, I can get on board. But that's not what most of the Booze Crew here are talking about, are they?

In no way is drinking alcohol daily moderate. The few people I know who drink daily never stop at one drink.

Anonymous wrote:And yet I go to the beach once a summer and from my spot under an umbrella I watch a wave of humanity that is obese and sunburned and still standing out in the sun all day with their kids looking the same.

I don’t know OP. Alcohol is just one thing. Humans don’t always do the “right” things. Why focus on alcohol is my question. How do you even pick that out as the issue to get indignant about.

People may be looking at you as you do the tanned, fatties at the beach.

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t drink anymore, but I don’t care if others do (obviously I care about people who choose to drive drunk-that’s immoral). Why start this thread op? Why do you keep bashing the people who are answering your question?

What happened in your childhood? I feel like there’s something more to your story than just not getting people…

I don't drink anymore and mostly don't care about whether other people do, but with the new research on cancer and with some of what we've witnessed with older adult drinking post-COVID, it's kind of starting to fall into the category of why we care about other people smoking—it has a public health aspect, if only because it's costing the healthcare system and it has some pretty dire consequences in terms of drunk driving, domestic abuse, divorce... it's cool if you want to be a booze hound, but your kid's sad childhood sucks and when they grow up to a demented adult, we all have to deal with them.

That is the truth. The drinkers enjoy the alcohol and it's the people around them that suffer. Whether the drinker is embarrassing family members, losing their cognition or sick with cancer or liver disease- other people pay the price for the alcohol.

And yet I go to the beach once a summer and from my spot under an umbrella I watch a wave of humanity that is obese and sunburned and still standing out in the sun all day with their kids looking the same.

I don’t know OP. Alcohol is just one thing. Humans don’t always do the “right” things. Why focus on alcohol is my question. How do you even pick that out as the issue to get indignant about.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t drink anymore, but I don’t care if others do (obviously I care about people who choose to drive drunk-that’s immoral). Why start this thread op? Why do you keep bashing the people who are answering your question?

What happened in your childhood? I feel like there’s something more to your story than just not getting people…

I don't drink anymore and mostly don't care about whether other people do, but with the new research on cancer and with some of what we've witnessed with older adult drinking post-COVID, it's kind of starting to fall into the category of why we care about other people smoking—it has a public health aspect, if only because it's costing the healthcare system and it has some pretty dire consequences in terms of drunk driving, domestic abuse, divorce... it's cool if you want to be a booze hound, but your kid's sad childhood sucks and when they grow up to a demented adult, we all have to deal with them.

I drank with joy until I read Annie Grace, This Naked Mind. It truly opened my mind. I’m not judging others. But for me, it made a lot of sense to drastically reduce my ingestion of this addictive, carcinogenic poison.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all the information about alcohol causing cancer, Parkinson’s, wrinkles, anxiety, why do you still drink it? What makes you risk your health? Does it make you feel so good that it’s worth the risks?

Do you go outside or eat grilled food? The sun, air pollution, and grill also increase your risk of cancer, wrinkles etc. The sun provides vitamin D and grilled meat provides low fat protein. Similarly, alcohol provides a social ritual that has brought people together for over millenia - even Jesus broke bread and had wine with apostles. BTW - strong community ties are demonstrated to have the biggest impact on health. Why would you forego the obvious?

Don't bring Jesus into this as an excuse for showing up to church with a hang over.

Part of the reason these Prohibitionist threads get a little tiresome are the strawman assertions that drinking equals drunkenness. There’s a lot of ground between an occasional glass of wine and a hangover.

Absolutely.

But the people who argue most aggressively that everyone should stop talking about the real health risks of drinking aren't arguing for an occasional glass of wine with a meal. They wax poetic about the social benefits and while I don't think most are advocating for binge drinking, it's pretty obvious they just want to have fun and get buzzed without someone nagging them about the health risks. Nobody REALLY thinks it's good for you, some people think that a small amount might be, kind of good for you, but the recommended amount to have health benefits is currently 2 drinks a day for men, and 1 for women, and that's the number set by industry lobbyists, the scientists who think there may be health benefits suggest 1 drink a day for men and less than 1 for women.

If you are genuinely advocating for the idea that 3x a week, we all have a glass of wine with dinner, I can get on board. But that's not what most of the Booze Crew here are talking about, are they?

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Anonymous wrote:With all the information about alcohol causing cancer, Parkinson’s, wrinkles, anxiety, why do you still drink it? What makes you risk your health? Does it make you feel so good that it’s worth the risks?

Do you go outside or eat grilled food? The sun, air pollution, and grill also increase your risk of cancer, wrinkles etc. The sun provides vitamin D and grilled meat provides low fat protein. Similarly, alcohol provides a social ritual that has brought people together for over millenia - even Jesus broke bread and had wine with apostles. BTW - strong community ties are demonstrated to have the biggest impact on health. Why would you forego the obvious?

We go outside... and put sunscreen on, and also every doctor you speak to recommends we should do more to protect ourselves from UV-rays. As for the grill, meats can provide low fat protein, but again, most doctors don't really weigh in on the method of cooking, but definitely urge people to heat lower-fat meats, more vegetables, etc. The classic things to throw on a grill (ribs, burgers, steak, hotdogs) are definitely widely accepted as unhealthy, and while people may enjoy them, healthy people consume them carefully.

A better analogy is eating fish--it has a lot of proven health benefits, but too much will cause issues with mercury. It should be done carefully, but can be a health benefit and enjoyable.

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Anonymous wrote:I am optimizing the quality of my life, not the quantity. Fine wines add immeasurably to that quality. It also enhances socialization, which is extremely beneficial for health and happiness.

smoking is also fun and looks cool... it would enhance my life a ton if it was consequence free. But it's not.

grow up

I did smoke for a few years, but gave it up 30 years ago when I realized that the risk/reward ratio was so unfavorable. The risk/reward ratio with alcohol is very different. There are cardiovascular benefits from moderate drinking that partially offset the cancer risk. And, as I mentioned, the social benefits are huge. Many of the best times of my life have involved alcohol, and I wouldn’t trade that for a few more years of life (if that is even the trade-off - bear in mind that moderate drinkers outlive non-drinkers significantly. It is only when you start controlling for a lot of other factors that you can produce a result showing the harmful impact).

The research is new enough and still developing so you can't possibly say with any confidence what the real risk/rewards are. But we do know that the previous surgeon general was planning on adding cigarette style cancer warnings to booze and Trump killed it, and now his administration is trying to pull a study linking booze to breast cancer, in favor of an industry backed study finding that alcohol has cardiovascular benefits. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/05/health/alcohol-drinking-hhs-report.html

Remember, the studies that find it has cardiovascular benefits are almost all backed by the industry. The research that is coming out is pretty consistent that cancer risk is real and claims of cardiovascular benefits are shaky. It's also notable that the definition of "moderate drinking" that *MAY* have a cardiovascular benefit (though again, stressing that seems less likely) is set at 2 drinks a day for men, and one for women, and even without discussing the cancer issue, there was a push from the scientific end of the conversation that it should be lowered to 1 for men and less than 1 for women (industry pushed back on those changes).

So, if there's any cardiovascular benefit, it's might be found in women who have less than a drink a day. Not exactly social lubrication levels of drinking, more like a small glass of wine with dinner, a few times a week.

If you're genuinely interested (and you should be since you seem interested in your health) read more about it: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/03/health/alcohol-surgeon-general-warning.html

"There is no question that heavy consumption is harmful. But supporters of moderate drinking — including makers of wine, beer and spirits, and some physicians and scientists — argue that a little alcohol each day may reduce cardiovascular disease, the No. 1 killer in the United States.

Newer scientific studies have criticized the methodology of earlier studies, however, and have challenged that view, which was once a consensus.

While most cancer deaths occur at drinking levels that exceed the current recommended dietary guidelines, the risk for cancers of the breast, the mouth and the throat may rise with consumption of as little as one drink a day, or even less, Dr. Murthy said on Friday.

Overall, one of every six breast cancer cases is attributable to alcohol consumption, Dr. Murthy said. More recent studies have also linked moderate alcohol consumption to certain forms of heart disease, including atrial fibrillation, a heart arrhythmia."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am optimizing the quality of my life, not the quantity. Fine wines add immeasurably to that quality. It also enhances socialization, which is extremely beneficial for health and happiness.

smoking is also fun and looks cool... it would enhance my life a ton if it was consequence free. But it's not.

grow up

I did smoke for a few years, but gave it up 30 years ago when I realized that the risk/reward ratio was so unfavorable. The risk/reward ratio with alcohol is very different. There are cardiovascular benefits from moderate drinking that partially offset the cancer risk. And, as I mentioned, the social benefits are huge. Many of the best times of my life have involved alcohol, and I wouldn’t trade that for a few more years of life (if that is even the trade-off - bear in mind that moderate drinkers outlive non-drinkers significantly. It is only when you start controlling for a lot of other factors that you can produce a result showing the harmful impact).