Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HS special educator here (and above, I'm going to try to remember to ID myself each time because I hope it makes the thread less confusing to know which comments go together).

Could you tell us a little more about your kid's skills? You initially said he hadn't developed any skills, and was like a three year old who could read. But then you added spelling, and math calculation, but not problem solving. Those aren't 3 year old skills. You said he speaks in short phrases, which implies he can't form sentences, but also that he can do 2nd or 3rd grade level work, which often asks for complete sentences? Is it just his self regulation skills that are on a three year old level? Are his social skills on that level? Or lower? How are his motor skills? What about receptive language?

That would help me figure out strategies for him.

Also, what's on his IEP? Is he on alternate learning outcomes, or is he working towards a diploma? Is his work being modified, or does he just get accommodations and specialized instruction?

Sorry to ask so many questions.

That's challenging to answer because he doesn't cooperate or follow tasks. That is, we can tell he can read based on on his unprompted utterances, and his ability to type and spell, but he won't read on command or answer questions. So that also makes it difficult to gauge how much he understands.

He can do basic math worksheets, or at least parts of them. He won't show his work, and isn't good about using wherever technique they're working on, but he gets the right answer when he does it.

We can kind of do basic writing worksheets, but when they ask for a sentence he'll usually just write or a word or two. He's capable of speaking and typing longer sentences when he's playing on his own, but doesn't do it in school. The problem happens even with play-base therapy.

He knows his letters, but his writing skills are poor. He doesn't use a pincer grip, despite years of working on it. It doesn't appear to be a physical limitation, though, as he plays with legos requiring a similar level of fine motor skills. He just doesn't want to, and because he doesn't want to, it is hard to get him to practice it.

So he really doing grade level work? Certainly not. He doesn't have different educational outcomes yet, nor does the IEP formally modify his work. We just all try to get him to do as much of the regular work as we can. I think that's going to be much harder this year.

But the thought has been that we wouldn't really get into more in-depth discussions about going off the diploma track or formally modifying his work until he goes into 3rd grade. For a lot of reasons- curriculum, testing, and neuro assessments they don't do until age 8 (which he just hit).

He doesn't have an assigned 1:1 this year or last, but between elopement and SIBs, they bring another person into the room and keep someone on him for as much of the day as they can. Otherwise I know it is too much for the teacher and one paraeducator.

HS SPED again,

What kind of play contexts is he speaking and writing longer things in? Is it play that he initiates or play that someone else initiates? What kind of activities?

Also, did he start 2nd or 3rd this year?

Do you see the elopement and SIB's in all settings or just in specific settings? Has there been an FBA?

His own play. He doesn't participate when someone else initiates. That's been a goal for years now... Longer writing comes up in youtube searches- he comes up with very detailed scenarios, sometimes clearly trying to find a specific video. His searches are far more detailed than anything he'd say verbally.

He's in 2nd.

Elopement and SIBs happen everywhere. He doesn't have a BIP. I've brought it up, mostly thinking it could help make the case for a para. I'm not sure why they haven't done one. But practically speaking, based on my discussions with his teachers and special educators over the years, they're trying to do the right things. So I don't think it would be useful except for using as justification for a paraeducator.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HS special educator here (and above, I'm going to try to remember to ID myself each time because I hope it makes the thread less confusing to know which comments go together).

Could you tell us a little more about your kid's skills? You initially said he hadn't developed any skills, and was like a three year old who could read. But then you added spelling, and math calculation, but not problem solving. Those aren't 3 year old skills. You said he speaks in short phrases, which implies he can't form sentences, but also that he can do 2nd or 3rd grade level work, which often asks for complete sentences? Is it just his self regulation skills that are on a three year old level? Are his social skills on that level? Or lower? How are his motor skills? What about receptive language?

That would help me figure out strategies for him.

Also, what's on his IEP? Is he on alternate learning outcomes, or is he working towards a diploma? Is his work being modified, or does he just get accommodations and specialized instruction?

Sorry to ask so many questions.

That's challenging to answer because he doesn't cooperate or follow tasks. That is, we can tell he can read based on on his unprompted utterances, and his ability to type and spell, but he won't read on command or answer questions. So that also makes it difficult to gauge how much he understands.

He can do basic math worksheets, or at least parts of them. He won't show his work, and isn't good about using wherever technique they're working on, but he gets the right answer when he does it.

We can kind of do basic writing worksheets, but when they ask for a sentence he'll usually just write or a word or two. He's capable of speaking and typing longer sentences when he's playing on his own, but doesn't do it in school. The problem happens even with play-base therapy.

He knows his letters, but his writing skills are poor. He doesn't use a pincer grip, despite years of working on it. It doesn't appear to be a physical limitation, though, as he plays with legos requiring a similar level of fine motor skills. He just doesn't want to, and because he doesn't want to, it is hard to get him to practice it.

So he really doing grade level work? Certainly not. He doesn't have different educational outcomes yet, nor does the IEP formally modify his work. We just all try to get him to do as much of the regular work as we can. I think that's going to be much harder this year.

But the thought has been that we wouldn't really get into more in-depth discussions about going off the diploma track or formally modifying his work until he goes into 3rd grade. For a lot of reasons- curriculum, testing, and neuro assessments they don't do until age 8 (which he just hit).

He doesn't have an assigned 1:1 this year or last, but between elopement and SIBs, they bring another person into the room and keep someone on him for as much of the day as they can. Otherwise I know it is too much for the teacher and one paraeducator.

HS SPED again,

What kind of play contexts is he speaking and writing longer things in? Is it play that he initiates or play that someone else initiates? What kind of activities?

Also, did he start 2nd or 3rd this year?

Do you see the elopement and SIB's in all settings or just in specific settings? Has there been an FBA?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, this sounds really hard. I haven’t been exactly where you have been but I will offer my first thoughts most as commiseration. I have an older child with SN and a younger child with a physical disability. The way doctors and professionals have talked to us about the two different scenarios is night and day. With my child with SN we were given constant scare tactics and told we absolutely had to do a million therapies RIGHT NOW. Not everything was evidence based but if I was a decent mom I would do ALL the things. For my child with a physical disability everyone comforted me and counseled acceptance.

Some interventions helped my Sons child, some were exhausting (to both me and them) and frankly their growth has been different than what people seemed to predict. In someways better in others the struggles are still there. I think because some parents are in denial about their child’s SN doctors tend to use a lot of scare tactics and come across more definitively than they should. It’s ok to cut back. It’s ok to accept some things you never thought you would. It’s honestly not entirely in your control. Don’t sacrifice your relationship with your child for hopes that they might be different. I hope you can get more help, whether that’s respite care, a different setting at school or something.

Maybe therapy for you, too. That’s helped me a lot.

It sounds like you were influenced by the whole dogma of “early intervention NOW or the window will close!!!” It is so important for SN parents to realize that their kids childhood is also a childhood and not a disease to be treated.

Op here. For what it's worth, my son loves ABA, speech, and OT. (but absolutely hates school) I think in his mind it is like having his own adult playmate.

Anonymous wrote:HS SPED again,

You say he isn't motivated by anything but are there things that motivate him to do things that aren't adult directed?

For example, is he motivated by food to stay at the dinner table long enough to finish something he likes? Or to climb on the cabinets and get something stored out of reach?

Is he motivated to go outside enough to put on his shoes? To figure out how to unlock a lock you don't want him to?

Is he motivated enough by screentime to try to get past a password?

When he walks away from homework, or from you at home, is there something he's walking to? Like legos, or kicking a soccer ball?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HS special educator here (and above, I'm going to try to remember to ID myself each time because I hope it makes the thread less confusing to know which comments go together).

Could you tell us a little more about your kid's skills? You initially said he hadn't developed any skills, and was like a three year old who could read. But then you added spelling, and math calculation, but not problem solving. Those aren't 3 year old skills. You said he speaks in short phrases, which implies he can't form sentences, but also that he can do 2nd or 3rd grade level work, which often asks for complete sentences? Is it just his self regulation skills that are on a three year old level? Are his social skills on that level? Or lower? How are his motor skills? What about receptive language?

That would help me figure out strategies for him.

Also, what's on his IEP? Is he on alternate learning outcomes, or is he working towards a diploma? Is his work being modified, or does he just get accommodations and specialized instruction?

Sorry to ask so many questions.

That's challenging to answer because he doesn't cooperate or follow tasks. That is, we can tell he can read based on on his unprompted utterances, and his ability to type and spell, but he won't read on command or answer questions. So that also makes it difficult to gauge how much he understands.

He can do basic math worksheets, or at least parts of them. He won't show his work, and isn't good about using wherever technique they're working on, but he gets the right answer when he does it.

We can kind of do basic writing worksheets, but when they ask for a sentence he'll usually just write or a word or two. He's capable of speaking and typing longer sentences when he's playing on his own, but doesn't do it in school. The problem happens even with play-base therapy.

He knows his letters, but his writing skills are poor. He doesn't use a pincer grip, despite years of working on it. It doesn't appear to be a physical limitation, though, as he plays with legos requiring a similar level of fine motor skills. He just doesn't want to, and because he doesn't want to, it is hard to get him to practice it.

So he really doing grade level work? Certainly not. He doesn't have different educational outcomes yet, nor does the IEP formally modify his work. We just all try to get him to do as much of the regular work as we can. I think that's going to be much harder this year.

But the thought has been that we wouldn't really get into more in-depth discussions about going off the diploma track or formally modifying his work until he goes into 3rd grade. For a lot of reasons- curriculum, testing, and neuro assessments they don't do until age 8 (which he just hit).

He doesn't have an assigned 1:1 this year or last, but between elopement and SIBs, they bring another person into the room and keep someone on him for as much of the day as they can. Otherwise I know it is too much for the teacher and one paraeducator.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HS special educator here (and above, I'm going to try to remember to ID myself each time because I hope it makes the thread less confusing to know which comments go together).

Could you tell us a little more about your kid's skills? You initially said he hadn't developed any skills, and was like a three year old who could read. But then you added spelling, and math calculation, but not problem solving. Those aren't 3 year old skills. You said he speaks in short phrases, which implies he can't form sentences, but also that he can do 2nd or 3rd grade level work, which often asks for complete sentences? Is it just his self regulation skills that are on a three year old level? Are his social skills on that level? Or lower? How are his motor skills? What about receptive language?

That would help me figure out strategies for him.

Also, what's on his IEP? Is he on alternate learning outcomes, or is he working towards a diploma? Is his work being modified, or does he just get accommodations and specialized instruction?

Sorry to ask so many questions.

It sounds to me like it's time to consider one of the self-contained programs. I know you said you didn't like the classic autism program, but it might still be a better fit than a mainstream classroom. Or, has anyone mentioned the learning center program?

That's challenging to answer because he doesn't cooperate or follow tasks. That is, we can tell he can read based on on his unprompted utterances, and his ability to type and spell, but he won't read on command or answer questions. So that also makes it difficult to gauge how much he understands.

He can do basic math worksheets, or at least parts of them. He won't show his work, and isn't good about using wherever technique they're working on, but he gets the right answer when he does it.

We can kind of do basic writing worksheets, but when they ask for a sentence he'll usually just write or a word or two. He's capable of speaking and typing longer sentences when he's playing on his own, but doesn't do it in school. The problem happens even with play-base therapy.

He knows his letters, but his writing skills are poor. He doesn't use a pincer grip, despite years of working on it. It doesn't appear to be a physical limitation, though, as he plays with legos requiring a similar level of fine motor skills. He just doesn't want to, and because he doesn't want to, it is hard to get him to practice it.

So he really doing grade level work? Certainly not. He doesn't have different educational outcomes yet, nor does the IEP formally modify his work. We just all try to get him to do as much of the regular work as we can. I think that's going to be much harder this year.

But the thought has been that we wouldn't really get into more in-depth discussions about going off the diploma track or formally modifying his work until he goes into 3rd grade. For a lot of reasons- curriculum, testing, and neuro assessments they don't do until age 8 (which he just hit).

He doesn't have an assigned 1:1 this year or last, but between elopement and SIBs, they bring another person into the room and keep someone on him for as much of the day as they can. Otherwise I know it is too much for the teacher and one paraeducator.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, this sounds really hard. I haven’t been exactly where you have been but I will offer my first thoughts most as commiseration. I have an older child with SN and a younger child with a physical disability. The way doctors and professionals have talked to us about the two different scenarios is night and day. With my child with SN we were given constant scare tactics and told we absolutely had to do a million therapies RIGHT NOW. Not everything was evidence based but if I was a decent mom I would do ALL the things. For my child with a physical disability everyone comforted me and counseled acceptance.

Some interventions helped my Sons child, some were exhausting (to both me and them) and frankly their growth has been different than what people seemed to predict. In someways better in others the struggles are still there. I think because some parents are in denial about their child’s SN doctors tend to use a lot of scare tactics and come across more definitively than they should. It’s ok to cut back. It’s ok to accept some things you never thought you would. It’s honestly not entirely in your control. Don’t sacrifice your relationship with your child for hopes that they might be different. I hope you can get more help, whether that’s respite care, a different setting at school or something.

Maybe therapy for you, too. That’s helped me a lot.

It sounds like you were influenced by the whole dogma of “early intervention NOW or the window will close!!!” It is so important for SN parents to realize that their kids childhood is also a childhood and not a disease to be treated.

Anonymous wrote:HS special educator here (and above, I'm going to try to remember to ID myself each time because I hope it makes the thread less confusing to know which comments go together).

Could you tell us a little more about your kid's skills? You initially said he hadn't developed any skills, and was like a three year old who could read. But then you added spelling, and math calculation, but not problem solving. Those aren't 3 year old skills. You said he speaks in short phrases, which implies he can't form sentences, but also that he can do 2nd or 3rd grade level work, which often asks for complete sentences? Is it just his self regulation skills that are on a three year old level? Are his social skills on that level? Or lower? How are his motor skills? What about receptive language?

That would help me figure out strategies for him.

Also, what's on his IEP? Is he on alternate learning outcomes, or is he working towards a diploma? Is his work being modified, or does he just get accommodations and specialized instruction?

Sorry to ask so many questions.

Anonymous wrote:OP, this sounds really hard. I haven’t been exactly where you have been but I will offer my first thoughts most as commiseration. I have an older child with SN and a younger child with a physical disability. The way doctors and professionals have talked to us about the two different scenarios is night and day. With my child with SN we were given constant scare tactics and told we absolutely had to do a million therapies RIGHT NOW. Not everything was evidence based but if I was a decent mom I would do ALL the things. For my child with a physical disability everyone comforted me and counseled acceptance.

Some interventions helped my Sons child, some were exhausting (to both me and them) and frankly their growth has been different than what people seemed to predict. In someways better in others the struggles are still there. I think because some parents are in denial about their child’s SN doctors tend to use a lot of scare tactics and come across more definitively than they should. It’s ok to cut back. It’s ok to accept some things you never thought you would. It’s honestly not entirely in your control. Don’t sacrifice your relationship with your child for hopes that they might be different. I hope you can get more help, whether that’s respite care, a different setting at school or something.

Maybe therapy for you, too. That’s helped me a lot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Troll

Doesn't seem like a troll to me. Sounds like a frustrated parent but also a parent who is likely coming to terms with the fact that their child won't get to the level they were hoping they would with all these interventions. It's still a difficult thing to process.

Hopefully there are better programs available and OP should certainly look into it. BUT to the extent the issue is behavioral I think taking a closer look at what is going on is important. A classroom observation or several to really understand what is going on could be helpful to reset. In my experience the tenor of the communication coming home from school created an impression of total dysfunction that was not really the case. Schools just tend to communicate in an escalated manner and don’t communicate the positives or overall picture.

OP here. I've had pretty good relationships with his classroom teachers and special educators. I've had some classroom visits, and if anything, the situation is worse than they say. Completely ignores most instructions or questions and wanders around the room frequently. With 1:1 attention, he might get half-way a worksheet/project, but with absolutely no regard to doing it correctly.

I've never before met anyone in my life who literally does not care what you say or think. Whether you're mad or happy toward him, he doesn't care at all. I wish I was exaggerating. Even rewards don't work on him.

If the rewards aren’t working then you have a motivation issue not a learning issue and that won’t be addressed in mainstream. I’d call an IEP, hire a lawyer, take your team with you, and fight for adequate services. You’re doing him a disservice as it stands.

Calling a meeting doesn't help if there isn't an ask. We've been working with his therapists and doctors for years trying to find something that might help. The mainstream setting isn't good, but the guidance we've gotten is that a self-contained program would be worse for him.

Who has given this guidance? It's possible they are right, and what you need to do is to explore increasing and changing the kinds of supports he is getting in gen ed. It's also possible that they are wrong.

Rewards not working is not a sign that it's a motivation issue, and even if it were, you can work on motivation in a mainstream setting.

His BCBA, speech therapist, occupational therapist, developmental pediatrician, and child psychiatrist.

They might all be wrong, but they have a lot of experience working with him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't give up on your child, but many families with disabled children reach a point where they realize that they need to shift from a mindset of "keeping up" or "catching up" to one of "keeping going",

That might mean looking for an educational placement where he can feel more successful, and regulate himself more effectively, even if that comes at a cost of slower academic progress.

It might mean changing how you use your resources, whether it's time or money, and prioritizing things that give you all energy for a long journey, whether that's spending the money from OT on a babysitter so you can get a break, or taking ABA off the schedule to let him do more things that make him happy.

It's a hard transition, for many families, but I've seen families come through it.

If you tell us more about specific things that are hard, we can probably make more specific suggestions.

Op here. Our goal has been for him to gain the executive functioning and communication skills necessary to live on his own. While he's minimally verbal (short phrases), but no where near on track. Most troubling is that none of the interventions have really helped that much. The medications make his behaviors a lttle easier to control, but his actual skills aren't that far off from when he was 3.

I'm the PP you responded to. I'm a special educator in high school. I work with students who are working towards alternate learning outcomes, which is a fancy way of saying they'll get a certificate. I say all this, not because it makes me an expert, but because it provides context for my response.

I think those are well thought out goals, but I also think it's very hard to look at an 8 year old and predict where they will be down the road. If I look at students who come to me as 14 year olds, and try to predict how much independence they'll have at 22, it's still hard and a 14 year old is a lot closer to an adult, than an 8 year old. I'll also say that I know kids and families who haven't achieved those particular goals, but whose life is good and meaningful, and who have benefited from a focus on self regulation, executive functioning, and communication.

As far as advice, I'd start by saying that the best way for kids to learn to be regulated, and productive, is by being regulated and productive. That sounds ridiculous when I write it, but what I mean is that finding a school environment where he can feel safe, and not overstimulated, which can lead to calm and work completion, should be a priority. That might mean adding supports to his current environment, like a 1:1 aid, or it might mean a self contained classroom. I am a strong believer in inclusive settings for kids, but if a kid is consistently disregulated, and not completing work at school, those are red flags for me, and tell me that a change is in order. So, I would ask the IEP team about other options.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You aren’t making any sense. If he’s developmentally 3 he would not be mainstreamed or able to read.

Kids with autism (I'm making a guess based on OP's saying ABA) often have reading skills that outpace their other skills. It's not uncommon for an autistic 3 year old, or an autistic student with ID whose other skills are around a 3 year old level to read.

Mainstream classes are often the best places for kids with ID (not saying OP's child has it).

ABA does not imply autism.

Umm yes it does. That is a strange thing to say.

ABA stands for Applied Behavior Analysis. The definition of ABA is “the scientific study of human behavior”. This can apply to any behavior, for anyone, it is not limited to autism or any other disability for that matter. Because ABA is adaptable and personalized, it addresses specific skill deficits and behaviors across diverse groups. From young children to adults, ABA techniques can enhance social interaction, emotional regulation, academic performance, independence, and many other skills.

Dude. OP already said her child is autistic. The vast majority of kids in ABA have autism. Yes the techniques in ABA can be found in other types of behavioral modification that are more broadly applied, the correct assumption when someone mentions ABA here is that their child has autism. In addition as you hopefully know, usually insurers will not cover ABA if there is no autism diagnosis.

If you want to start a thread on ABA for conditions other than autism feel free but you are not helping anyone here.

That won’t be necessary. I find this board to be disingenuous and rude to outsiders and won’t be sharing my knowledge and experiences any longer. Have a nice day!