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Anonymous wrote:Most high-scoring kids wind up at the major flagships (Michigan, Georgia, Purdue, Rutgers, etc.). There just aren’t that many seats at the elite privates, and many of them are reserved for wealthy/connected/athletic students.

There are only ~17,000 1570+ students per year.

T20 75 percentile cutoff line typically at 1570. 25% of T20 admits have 1570+.

~7000 1570+ go to T20.
~4000 1570+ other top private, SLACs, Stern, Ross, Georgetown, USC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to flagships, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Georgia Tech, UNC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to merit (full or half tuition), Case Western, Grinell, Rochester, etc.

You know that UCLA and Berkeley are actually top 20s, right?

They are test blind. But many high scorers attend these schools happily.

The point is, the number of 1570+ at T20 (other than UCs) can be estimated because the 75 percentile line is typically 1570.

But (at least in recent years) they’re mostly test optional, so the number of kids scoring 1570+ is only 25% of kids submitting scores, or less than 25% of the student body. Eg at Vanderbilt (#18), half of all students were TO, so even though the 75th percentile score is 1560, that only represents 1/8th of the student body. The cutoff for the top 25% of the class would be the median reported score, which was 1540. If you assume that 25% of students at Vandy scored 1570+, you’d be dramatically overstating the number of seats at Vandy available for high-scoring students.

UCs are test blind, not TO. They won't even look at your SAT even if you submit, and I think there's no place to submit it -- someone correct me if I'm wrong about this part.

You’re correct that UCs are test blind. But even a test-blind school can enroll a lot of high-scoring students if it has a strong reputation, selects based on factors correlated with SAT score (all UCs use GPA; UCLA and UCB use AP scores), and offers most of them (ie, in-state students) a good price.

My 1570 NMF kid is at Berkeley.and most of his friends had high SAT scores.

but it wasn't the SAT scores that got them in since UCs are completely test blind.

High SAT scores don't appear to get anyone in anywhere these days.

The UC's accept AP scores

AP scores don't mean sh*t.

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Anonymous wrote:Most high-scoring kids wind up at the major flagships (Michigan, Georgia, Purdue, Rutgers, etc.). There just aren’t that many seats at the elite privates, and many of them are reserved for wealthy/connected/athletic students.

There are only ~17,000 1570+ students per year.

T20 75 percentile cutoff line typically at 1570. 25% of T20 admits have 1570+.

~7000 1570+ go to T20.
~4000 1570+ other top private, SLACs, Stern, Ross, Georgetown, USC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to flagships, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Georgia Tech, UNC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to merit (full or half tuition), Case Western, Grinell, Rochester, etc.

You know that UCLA and Berkeley are actually top 20s, right?

They are test blind. But many high scorers attend these schools happily.

The point is, the number of 1570+ at T20 (other than UCs) can be estimated because the 75 percentile line is typically 1570.

But (at least in recent years) they’re mostly test optional, so the number of kids scoring 1570+ is only 25% of kids submitting scores, or less than 25% of the student body. Eg at Vanderbilt (#18), half of all students were TO, so even though the 75th percentile score is 1560, that only represents 1/8th of the student body. The cutoff for the top 25% of the class would be the median reported score, which was 1540. If you assume that 25% of students at Vandy scored 1570+, you’d be dramatically overstating the number of seats at Vandy available for high-scoring students.

UCs are test blind, not TO. They won't even look at your SAT even if you submit, and I think there's no place to submit it -- someone correct me if I'm wrong about this part.

You’re correct that UCs are test blind. But even a test-blind school can enroll a lot of high-scoring students if it has a strong reputation, selects based on factors correlated with SAT score (all UCs use GPA; UCLA and UCB use AP scores), and offers most of them (ie, in-state students) a good price.

My 1570 NMF kid is at Berkeley.and most of his friends had high SAT scores.

but it wasn't the SAT scores that got them in since UCs are completely test blind.

High SAT scores don't appear to get anyone in anywhere these days.

The UC's accept AP scores

Anonymous wrote:Are ppl willing to share generic profiles over last 2 years for high test score kids results (year, stats, major, public/private HS, general ECs, spike/hook)?

Curious where the high-test-score kids end up, and for which major.

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Anonymous wrote:Most high-scoring kids wind up at the major flagships (Michigan, Georgia, Purdue, Rutgers, etc.). There just aren’t that many seats at the elite privates, and many of them are reserved for wealthy/connected/athletic students.

There are only ~17,000 1570+ students per year.

T20 75 percentile cutoff line typically at 1570. 25% of T20 admits have 1570+.

~7000 1570+ go to T20.
~4000 1570+ other top private, SLACs, Stern, Ross, Georgetown, USC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to flagships, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Georgia Tech, UNC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to merit (full or half tuition), Case Western, Grinell, Rochester, etc.

You know that UCLA and Berkeley are actually top 20s, right?

They are test blind. But many high scorers attend these schools happily.

The point is, the number of 1570+ at T20 (other than UCs) can be estimated because the 75 percentile line is typically 1570.

But (at least in recent years) they’re mostly test optional, so the number of kids scoring 1570+ is only 25% of kids submitting scores, or less than 25% of the student body. Eg at Vanderbilt (#18), half of all students were TO, so even though the 75th percentile score is 1560, that only represents 1/8th of the student body. The cutoff for the top 25% of the class would be the median reported score, which was 1540. If you assume that 25% of students at Vandy scored 1570+, you’d be dramatically overstating the number of seats at Vandy available for high-scoring students.

The number comes out correct, albeit it's just an estimate. Also, we are talking about this year, not in the past years.

6 ivies are test required. 25% of all admits: ~3500
12 other T20 are test optional, ~1/8 of all admits: ~3500

6000-8000 1570+ go to T20. It's an estimate, I can assure you the number would not be 700. It's in that range.

So, 40%+ of 1570+ matriculated to T20. That’s decent.

The correlation is very high!

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Anonymous wrote:Most high-scoring kids wind up at the major flagships (Michigan, Georgia, Purdue, Rutgers, etc.). There just aren’t that many seats at the elite privates, and many of them are reserved for wealthy/connected/athletic students.

There are only ~17,000 1570+ students per year.

T20 75 percentile cutoff line typically at 1570. 25% of T20 admits have 1570+.

~7000 1570+ go to T20.
~4000 1570+ other top private, SLACs, Stern, Ross, Georgetown, USC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to flagships, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Georgia Tech, UNC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to merit (full or half tuition), Case Western, Grinell, Rochester, etc.

You know that UCLA and Berkeley are actually top 20s, right?

They are test blind. But many high scorers attend these schools happily.

The point is, the number of 1570+ at T20 (other than UCs) can be estimated because the 75 percentile line is typically 1570.

But (at least in recent years) they’re mostly test optional, so the number of kids scoring 1570+ is only 25% of kids submitting scores, or less than 25% of the student body. Eg at Vanderbilt (#18), half of all students were TO, so even though the 75th percentile score is 1560, that only represents 1/8th of the student body. The cutoff for the top 25% of the class would be the median reported score, which was 1540. If you assume that 25% of students at Vandy scored 1570+, you’d be dramatically overstating the number of seats at Vandy available for high-scoring students.

The number comes out correct, albeit it's just an estimate. Also, we are talking about this year, not in the past years.

6 ivies are test required. 25% of all admits: ~3500
12 other T20 are test optional, ~1/8 of all admits: ~3500

6000-8000 1570+ go to T20. It's an estimate, I can assure you the number would not be 700. It's in that range.

So, 40%+ of 1570+ matriculated to T20. That’s decent.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Most high-scoring kids wind up at the major flagships (Michigan, Georgia, Purdue, Rutgers, etc.). There just aren’t that many seats at the elite privates, and many of them are reserved for wealthy/connected/athletic students.

There are only ~17,000 1570+ students per year.

T20 75 percentile cutoff line typically at 1570. 25% of T20 admits have 1570+.

~7000 1570+ go to T20.
~4000 1570+ other top private, SLACs, Stern, Ross, Georgetown, USC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to flagships, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Georgia Tech, UNC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to merit (full or half tuition), Case Western, Grinell, Rochester, etc.

You know that UCLA and Berkeley are actually top 20s, right?

They are test blind. But many high scorers attend these schools happily.

The point is, the number of 1570+ at T20 (other than UCs) can be estimated because the 75 percentile line is typically 1570.

But (at least in recent years) they’re mostly test optional, so the number of kids scoring 1570+ is only 25% of kids submitting scores, or less than 25% of the student body. Eg at Vanderbilt (#18), half of all students were TO, so even though the 75th percentile score is 1560, that only represents 1/8th of the student body. The cutoff for the top 25% of the class would be the median reported score, which was 1540. If you assume that 25% of students at Vandy scored 1570+, you’d be dramatically overstating the number of seats at Vandy available for high-scoring students.

UCs are test blind, not TO. They won't even look at your SAT even if you submit, and I think there's no place to submit it -- someone correct me if I'm wrong about this part.

You’re correct that UCs are test blind. But even a test-blind school can enroll a lot of high-scoring students if it has a strong reputation, selects based on factors correlated with SAT score (all UCs use GPA; UCLA and UCB use AP scores), and offers most of them (ie, in-state students) a good price.

Anonymous wrote:Test optional is still the play for the schools that don't yet require it!

My DS is studying film at Yale and was TO. She is exceptionally talented but not a standardized test person so it was great to just not waste her time prepping and instead she could pour her time into school and her film ECs.

Don't buy into all the hype about standardized tests and raising scores unless you're hellbent on a school that is test mandatory.

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Anonymous wrote:Most high-scoring kids wind up at the major flagships (Michigan, Georgia, Purdue, Rutgers, etc.). There just aren’t that many seats at the elite privates, and many of them are reserved for wealthy/connected/athletic students.

There are only ~17,000 1570+ students per year.

T20 75 percentile cutoff line typically at 1570. 25% of T20 admits have 1570+.

~7000 1570+ go to T20.
~4000 1570+ other top private, SLACs, Stern, Ross, Georgetown, USC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to flagships, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Georgia Tech, UNC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to merit (full or half tuition), Case Western, Grinell, Rochester, etc.

You know that UCLA and Berkeley are actually top 20s, right?

They are test blind. But many high scorers attend these schools happily.

The point is, the number of 1570+ at T20 (other than UCs) can be estimated because the 75 percentile line is typically 1570.

But (at least in recent years) they’re mostly test optional, so the number of kids scoring 1570+ is only 25% of kids submitting scores, or less than 25% of the student body. Eg at Vanderbilt (#18), half of all students were TO, so even though the 75th percentile score is 1560, that only represents 1/8th of the student body. The cutoff for the top 25% of the class would be the median reported score, which was 1540. If you assume that 25% of students at Vandy scored 1570+, you’d be dramatically overstating the number of seats at Vandy available for high-scoring students.

UCs are test blind, not TO. They won't even look at your SAT even if you submit, and I think there's no place to submit it -- someone correct me if I'm wrong about this part.

You’re correct that UCs are test blind. But even a test-blind school can enroll a lot of high-scoring students if it has a strong reputation, selects based on factors correlated with SAT score (all UCs use GPA; UCLA and UCB use AP scores), and offers most of them (ie, in-state students) a good price.

My 1570 NMF kid is at Berkeley.and most of his friends had high SAT scores.

but it wasn't the SAT scores that got them in since UCs are completely test blind.

High SAT scores don't appear to get anyone in anywhere these days.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most high-scoring kids wind up at the major flagships (Michigan, Georgia, Purdue, Rutgers, etc.). There just aren’t that many seats at the elite privates, and many of them are reserved for wealthy/connected/athletic students.

There are only ~17,000 1570+ students per year.

T20 75 percentile cutoff line typically at 1570. 25% of T20 admits have 1570+.

~7000 1570+ go to T20.
~4000 1570+ other top private, SLACs, Stern, Ross, Georgetown, USC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to flagships, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Georgia Tech, UNC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to merit (full or half tuition), Case Western, Grinell, Rochester, etc.

You know that UCLA and Berkeley are actually top 20s, right?

They are test blind. But many high scorers attend these schools happily.

The point is, the number of 1570+ at T20 (other than UCs) can be estimated because the 75 percentile line is typically 1570.

But (at least in recent years) they’re mostly test optional, so the number of kids scoring 1570+ is only 25% of kids submitting scores, or less than 25% of the student body. Eg at Vanderbilt (#18), half of all students were TO, so even though the 75th percentile score is 1560, that only represents 1/8th of the student body. The cutoff for the top 25% of the class would be the median reported score, which was 1540. If you assume that 25% of students at Vandy scored 1570+, you’d be dramatically overstating the number of seats at Vandy available for high-scoring students.

UCs are test blind, not TO. They won't even look at your SAT even if you submit, and I think there's no place to submit it -- someone correct me if I'm wrong about this part.

You’re correct that UCs are test blind. But even a test-blind school can enroll a lot of high-scoring students if it has a strong reputation, selects based on factors correlated with SAT score (all UCs use GPA; UCLA and UCB use AP scores), and offers most of them (ie, in-state students) a good price.

My 1570 NMF kid is at Berkeley.and most of his friends had high SAT scores.

but it wasn't the SAT scores that got them in since UCs are completely test blind.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most high-scoring kids wind up at the major flagships (Michigan, Georgia, Purdue, Rutgers, etc.). There just aren’t that many seats at the elite privates, and many of them are reserved for wealthy/connected/athletic students.

There are only ~17,000 1570+ students per year.

T20 75 percentile cutoff line typically at 1570. 25% of T20 admits have 1570+.

~7000 1570+ go to T20.
~4000 1570+ other top private, SLACs, Stern, Ross, Georgetown, USC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to flagships, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Georgia Tech, UNC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to merit (full or half tuition), Case Western, Grinell, Rochester, etc.

You know that UCLA and Berkeley are actually top 20s, right?

They are test blind. But many high scorers attend these schools happily.

The point is, the number of 1570+ at T20 (other than UCs) can be estimated because the 75 percentile line is typically 1570.

But (at least in recent years) they’re mostly test optional, so the number of kids scoring 1570+ is only 25% of kids submitting scores, or less than 25% of the student body. Eg at Vanderbilt (#18), half of all students were TO, so even though the 75th percentile score is 1560, that only represents 1/8th of the student body. The cutoff for the top 25% of the class would be the median reported score, which was 1540. If you assume that 25% of students at Vandy scored 1570+, you’d be dramatically overstating the number of seats at Vandy available for high-scoring students.

UCs are test blind, not TO. They won't even look at your SAT even if you submit, and I think there's no place to submit it -- someone correct me if I'm wrong about this part.

You’re correct that UCs are test blind. But even a test-blind school can enroll a lot of high-scoring students if it has a strong reputation, selects based on factors correlated with SAT score (all UCs use GPA; UCLA and UCB use AP scores), and offers most of them (ie, in-state students) a good price.

My 1570 NMF kid is at Berkeley.and most of his friends had high SAT scores.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most high-scoring kids wind up at the major flagships (Michigan, Georgia, Purdue, Rutgers, etc.). There just aren’t that many seats at the elite privates, and many of them are reserved for wealthy/connected/athletic students.

There are only ~17,000 1570+ students per year.

T20 75 percentile cutoff line typically at 1570. 25% of T20 admits have 1570+.

~7000 1570+ go to T20.
~4000 1570+ other top private, SLACs, Stern, Ross, Georgetown, USC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to flagships, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Georgia Tech, UNC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to merit (full or half tuition), Case Western, Grinell, Rochester, etc.

You know that UCLA and Berkeley are actually top 20s, right?

They are test blind. But many high scorers attend these schools happily.

The point is, the number of 1570+ at T20 (other than UCs) can be estimated because the 75 percentile line is typically 1570.

But (at least in recent years) they’re mostly test optional, so the number of kids scoring 1570+ is only 25% of kids submitting scores, or less than 25% of the student body. Eg at Vanderbilt (#18), half of all students were TO, so even though the 75th percentile score is 1560, that only represents 1/8th of the student body. The cutoff for the top 25% of the class would be the median reported score, which was 1540. If you assume that 25% of students at Vandy scored 1570+, you’d be dramatically overstating the number of seats at Vandy available for high-scoring students.

The number comes out correct, albeit it's just an estimate. Also, we are talking about this year, not in the past years.

6 ivies are test required. 25% of all admits: ~3500
12 other T20 are test optional, ~1/8 of all admits: ~3500

6000-8000 1570+ go to T20. It's an estimate, I can assure you the number would not be 700. It's in that range.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most high-scoring kids wind up at the major flagships (Michigan, Georgia, Purdue, Rutgers, etc.). There just aren’t that many seats at the elite privates, and many of them are reserved for wealthy/connected/athletic students.

There are only ~17,000 1570+ students per year.

T20 75 percentile cutoff line typically at 1570. 25% of T20 admits have 1570+.

~7000 1570+ go to T20.
~4000 1570+ other top private, SLACs, Stern, Ross, Georgetown, USC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to flagships, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Georgia Tech, UNC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to merit (full or half tuition), Case Western, Grinell, Rochester, etc.

You know that UCLA and Berkeley are actually top 20s, right?

They are test blind. But many high scorers attend these schools happily.

The point is, the number of 1570+ at T20 (other than UCs) can be estimated because the 75 percentile line is typically 1570.

But (at least in recent years) they’re mostly test optional, so the number of kids scoring 1570+ is only 25% of kids submitting scores, or less than 25% of the student body. Eg at Vanderbilt (#18), half of all students were TO, so even though the 75th percentile score is 1560, that only represents 1/8th of the student body. The cutoff for the top 25% of the class would be the median reported score, which was 1540. If you assume that 25% of students at Vandy scored 1570+, you’d be dramatically overstating the number of seats at Vandy available for high-scoring students.

Look at pre-test optional (2020-21 CDs, ie arrived on campus fall 2020): most of the top 15 privates (Ivy+) had enroilled-student CDS data listing 1560 or 1570 as the 75th%ile. TO did not change the 75th # at the top schools.
Vanderbilt is included among those that did. They used to brag about it on their info sessions before tours: they would post the SAT ranges and specifically say top -8 SAT-ranges in the country and such. We toured with our DC'20 back in spring 2019. They flipped and became fairly pro-TO and focused on yield, but they used to be known for preferring very high SAT scores, ED and RD.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most high-scoring kids wind up at the major flagships (Michigan, Georgia, Purdue, Rutgers, etc.). There just aren’t that many seats at the elite privates, and many of them are reserved for wealthy/connected/athletic students.

There are only ~17,000 1570+ students per year.

T20 75 percentile cutoff line typically at 1570. 25% of T20 admits have 1570+.

~7000 1570+ go to T20.
~4000 1570+ other top private, SLACs, Stern, Ross, Georgetown, USC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to flagships, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Georgia Tech, UNC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to merit (full or half tuition), Case Western, Grinell, Rochester, etc.

You know that UCLA and Berkeley are actually top 20s, right?

They are test blind. But many high scorers attend these schools happily.

The point is, the number of 1570+ at T20 (other than UCs) can be estimated because the 75 percentile line is typically 1570.

But (at least in recent years) they’re mostly test optional, so the number of kids scoring 1570+ is only 25% of kids submitting scores, or less than 25% of the student body. Eg at Vanderbilt (#18), half of all students were TO, so even though the 75th percentile score is 1560, that only represents 1/8th of the student body. The cutoff for the top 25% of the class would be the median reported score, which was 1540. If you assume that 25% of students at Vandy scored 1570+, you’d be dramatically overstating the number of seats at Vandy available for high-scoring students.

The number comes out correct, albeit it's just an estimate. Also, we are talking about this year, not in the past years.

6 ivies are test required. 25% of all admits: ~3500
12 other T20 are test optional, ~1/8 of all admits: ~3500

6000-8000 1570+ go to T20. It's an estimate, I can assure you the number would not be 700. It's in that range.

Ok, I follow you that far. But 6,000-8,000 is less than half of your ~17,000 students scoring 1570+. (And where is that number from? Percentiles?) Almost all these schools super score, too, so if your 17,000 is not super-scored, then the real pool is quite a bit larger. And even assuming the pool is only 17,000, the conclusion would still be that the majority of 1570+ students DO NOT attend T20 private schools.

And I’d want to see some numbers on how many high-scoring kids are at small LACs or merit-granting privates as opposed to large state schools. Schools like Williams and Grinnell are small, and so far as I know all are test optional. Yet you have them enrolling more than twice as many high-scoring kids as large, test-required state schools like Purdue and Georgia. Why?

That's good enough. I am always amazed by people debating minor details on this site.
7000/17000 (or "a bit larger") is good enough for me.
Maybe a DP will pick up this and continue the exchange.

Well I’m asking for those of us with 1570+ kids who don’t have a shot at T20s. They have to go somewhere, and it would be nice if they could go somewhere where there is a healthy peer group of similarly smart kids. Sue me for trying to figure out where that might be.

~7000 1570+ go to T20.
~4000 1570+ other top private, SLACs, Stern, Ross, Georgetown, USC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to flagships, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Georgia Tech, UNC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to merit (full or half tuition), Case Western, Grinell, Rochester, etc.

PP. I also did the estimate for those who didn't end up at T20s. It's the same methodology for T20 (which you agreed on). Again, this is just an estimate, going through the accuracy of each item one by one is rather time consuming. But I assure you the estimate is not far off. For example, it's going to be 4000 not 400 for "other top privates."

NP. Please provide your sources when listing a bunch of numbers. Where are you getting this from?

It seems to be a lot of assumptions and back-of-the-envelope estimates.