Anonymous wrote:Just because a school has a bunch of smart, competitive, ambitious students doesn’t mean that those kids become your child’s network. Your child will gravitate to like-minded people, wherever they go.

So, consider: would your smart, kind, ambitious-but-not-cutthroat student find more friends/larger network at a Type-A grinder school or a more balanced one?

You don’t get the school that you attend; you get the school that you engage.

This is the wisest comment in this old thread.

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Anonymous wrote:People, highly achieved students are not necessarily (and typically not) grinders! You guys are just coping that you’re not gifted.

That is a quite harsh but I agree with the nugget of truth within:
Kid’s ivy peers at college as well as the unhooked ones who went to stanford, other ivies from their high school are all the kind that could accomplish more in a typical day and yet also get sleep in high school, all while being known as kind good kids. They are the same at their colleges they just are surrounded by mostly similar types, rather than being hounded by grinders who seem almost jealous of what they can do in a day. The high school grinders who worked more hours at the same task yet never seemed to enjoy learning all ended up outside the T15/ivy range. The grindiest are at UVA ,william and mary and Georgetown—just examples obviously everyone is not like that at those schools in fact most we know are not, just happens to be where the “grindy” types went in the end

So true! They aren’t the grinders, it comes easily in HS without sacrifice of social or sleep. They will be challenged more in college with similar peers, but still thrive on doing it all and having balance. They aren’t grinders, they don’t need to, they’re just extremely dedicated and focused. There’s a difference.

Isn't it hard to be dedicated and focused on every subject in high school? I have a kid extremely dedicated in one area, and I see his limits when it comes down to grinding out 5 APs a semester, with hard teachers. And on top of that doing everything else he's doing outside of class. I don't know how other kids get straight As in like 7 APs a year. Makes me think mine isn't cut out for the top schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People, highly achieved students are not necessarily (and typically not) grinders! You guys are just coping that you’re not gifted.

That is a quite harsh but I agree with the nugget of truth within:
Kid’s ivy peers at college as well as the unhooked ones who went to stanford, other ivies from their high school are all the kind that could accomplish more in a typical day and yet also get sleep in high school, all while being known as kind good kids. They are the same at their colleges they just are surrounded by mostly similar types, rather than being hounded by grinders who seem almost jealous of what they can do in a day. The high school grinders who worked more hours at the same task yet never seemed to enjoy learning all ended up outside the T15/ivy range. The grindiest are at UVA ,william and mary and Georgetown—just examples obviously everyone is not like that at those schools in fact most we know are not, just happens to be where the “grindy” types went in the end

So true! They aren’t the grinders, it comes easily in HS without sacrifice of social or sleep. They will be challenged more in college with similar peers, but still thrive on doing it all and having balance. They aren’t grinders, they don’t need to, they’re just extremely dedicated and focused. There’s a difference.

Anonymous wrote:Bigger cities, urban campuses, warm weather, residential college system tend to increase on campus interactions interaction and off campus exploration together.

Small town, small school, cold weather and athlete-non athlete divide tend to increase loneliness and alcoholism and drugs.

That is an over generalization

Anonymous wrote:People, highly achieved students are not necessarily (and typically not) grinders! You guys are just coping that you’re not gifted.

That is a quite harsh but I agree with the nugget of truth within:
Kid’s ivy peers at college as well as the unhooked ones who went to stanford, other ivies from their high school are all the kind that could accomplish more in a typical day and yet also get sleep in high school, all while being known as kind good kids. They are the same at their colleges they just are surrounded by mostly similar types, rather than being hounded by grinders who seem almost jealous of what they can do in a day. The high school grinders who worked more hours at the same task yet never seemed to enjoy learning all ended up outside the T15/ivy range. The grindiest are at UVA ,william and mary and Georgetown—just examples obviously everyone is not like that at those schools in fact most we know are not, just happens to be where the “grindy” types went in the end

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Anonymous wrote:So much has been made of wanting kids to be at a place where they are with a cohort of intellectual peers. With the poor mental health epidemic on college campuses, where’s the discussion on the kids’ mental health? My kid is surrounded by very driven peers at their T-25 but I constantly remind them they cannot function well without balance and perspective. I want my kid to be challenged but I also want them surrounded my classmates who are kind, thoughtful and well-adjusted. It’s sad how campus communities are now seen more as professional networks instead of a source of social/emotional support not just during college but beyond as well.

Great post.

My thought is that this is an area that is well addressed by public flagship honors colleges. A more scholarly community of students within a large university setting which serves students from a wide variety of socio-economic and intellectual backgrounds. Honors College students take courses both within the honors college and outside of the honors college but still within the large state flagship school.

Yet these schools would have been a horrible social first for my kid and most at their ivy as well as high school peers who ended up at similar intellectual schools. The social norms of flagships tend to revolve around sports, and drinking, and in general at the big publics it is often not considered normal or cool to talk about classes or intellectual pursuits(research) of friends, go to each others art/music shows, etc. william and mary has more of the latter vibe but it is unique as a public school in that respect, much more like a T25 private than a flagship

Ah. I'm glad to have all of my memories of my education at a state flagship (and my resume) corrected by someone who knows better. Maybe I've forgotten it all because I was distracted by the multiple full fellowships I got for grad school.

^fit not first

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much has been made of wanting kids to be at a place where they are with a cohort of intellectual peers. With the poor mental health epidemic on college campuses, where’s the discussion on the kids’ mental health? My kid is surrounded by very driven peers at their T-25 but I constantly remind them they cannot function well without balance and perspective. I want my kid to be challenged but I also want them surrounded my classmates who are kind, thoughtful and well-adjusted. It’s sad how campus communities are now seen more as professional networks instead of a source of social/emotional support not just during college but beyond as well.

Great post.

My thought is that this is an area that is well addressed by public flagship honors colleges. A more scholarly community of students within a large university setting which serves students from a wide variety of socio-economic and intellectual backgrounds. Honors College students take courses both within the honors college and outside of the honors college but still within the large state flagship school.

Yet these schools would have been a horrible social first for my kid and most at their ivy as well as high school peers who ended up at similar intellectual schools. The social norms of flagships tend to revolve around sports, and drinking, and in general at the big publics it is often not considered normal or cool to talk about classes or intellectual pursuits(research) of friends, go to each others art/music shows, etc. william and mary has more of the latter vibe but it is unique as a public school in that respect, much more like a T25 private than a flagship

Anonymous wrote:Mental health and fit are absolutely critical. My oldest is at a T10 and they wouldn’t have been happy anywhere that wasn’t fast-paced with strong peers. They love the push that gives them, their friends all seem to eke out a ton in a day. Prioritize gym, social, excellent time management skills. It works for them.

100x yes. The key is the kid knows they need and want this! The ones who fit it thrive there

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Anonymous wrote:DD is high stats and has zero desire to attend college with a bunch grinders on the spectrum. These are the kind of classes that the T20 have cultivated with their excessive EC requirements and focus on "pointy".

WTF are ”grinders in the spectrum?”

DP. Half the Ivy kids. Tons in Silicon Valley.

I wish I knew as much as people on here, to have such astute observations and firsthand knowledge of literal percentages of a student bodies at eight different schools.

Or, your kid is just average. It’s okay, mine is too.

I think you just need to go on a few top20 college tours to see this played out in front of you. It's pretty obvious when you see the kids.
It's even more apparent at accepted student events. My kid committed to an Ivy and we recently went to an accepted student summer reception and I would say that 75% of the kids I talked to were on the spectrum.

My oldest is at an Ivy, completely disagree. Went to a few admit days and tours prior. I didn’t get that impression in the slightest and don’t know that they’ve been there. One school came off intense overall, but I don’t make claims about whether people I meet briefly are on the spectrum.

The Ivies are not a monolith.

Agree, not the one needing to be told, the one who decided half are on the spectrum sure does though. Clearly haven’t actually been or they'd know better.

+1